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Re: somebody asked about bar ends to reduce road buzz

Started by Fakhina Sohl · · Last activity · 11 posts · 518 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
7 March 2005
Last activity
9 March 2005
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Fakhina Sohl
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  1. Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<fKkVd.119$Ru.17@okepread06>...

    Quoted message said:

    from cyclingnews.com
    plastic and brass or aluminium widgets
    that fit inside the ends of the bar and are claimed to cancel high
    frequency vibration and so improve comfort.
    ...If you add a weight to the end of a tube that's
    supported at one end (which is the situation with a bike handlebar) then
    it's going to have a different, and probably lower, harmonic frequency.

    The key word in this quote is "weight".

    The only way you're going to have a significant effect on the
    vibration of a handlebar, merely by stuffing something in the end of
    it, is if the thing you're stuffing has a significant mass.

    I can see two options: either a tuned mass, or a damped seismic mass.

    The tuned mass option would be to simply insert something heavy into
    the handlebar to lower the first (and possibly higher) natural
    frequency. Instead of going "ding" when you hit it, the bar would
    "dong". If you knew the frequency of excitation (ie if "road buzz" was
    concentrated at a fairly narrow frequency band), you could tune the
    bars to _not_ resonate in that frequency range.

    The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    is converted into low-grade heat.

    Technically, either of these options _might_ be able to reduce the
    amount of vibration experienced at the bars of a bike.

    Practically, neither of these options would ever be used, because they
    both involve adding substantial weights to the bike.

    Unless you're riding a sub-UCI weight bike, and looking for places to
    add mass to meet regulations, you're not going to insert lumps of lead
    - rigidly or damped - up your handlebars. Even if you need the weight,
    you'll probably be better off putting it down low, in the BB, rather
    than high in the bar plugs, merely for handling reasons.

    I'd rather have a better handling, slightly "buzzy" bike than a
    top-heavy, ill-mannered, over-weight but better damped bike.

    fs

  2. (Fakhina Sohl) said:

    Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<fKkVd.119$Ru.17@okepread06>...

    Quoted message said:

    from cyclingnews.com
    plastic and brass or aluminium widgets
    that fit inside the ends of the bar and are claimed to cancel high
    frequency vibration and so improve comfort.
    ...If you add a weight to the end of a tube that's
    supported at one end (which is the situation with a bike handlebar) then
    it's going to have a different, and probably lower, harmonic frequency.

    The key word in this quote is "weight".

    The only way you're going to have a significant effect on the
    vibration of a handlebar, merely by stuffing something in the end of
    it, is if the thing you're stuffing has a significant mass.

    I can see two options: either a tuned mass, or a damped seismic mass.

    The tuned mass option would be to simply insert something heavy into
    the handlebar to lower the first (and possibly higher) natural
    frequency. Instead of going "ding" when you hit it, the bar would
    "dong". If you knew the frequency of excitation (ie if "road buzz" was
    concentrated at a fairly narrow frequency band), you could tune the
    bars to _not_ resonate in that frequency range.

    The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    is converted into low-grade heat.

    A lead or brass slug in sorbothane. Betcha it'll work. Frankly I have no real
    need for such a thing and consider it a solution to a non-problem but that has
    had no effect on other cycling innovations like compact carbon cranks that exist
    without my personal approval.

    Quoted message said:

    Technically, either of these options _might_ be able to reduce the
    amount of vibration experienced at the bars of a bike.

    Practically, neither of these options would ever be used, because they
    both involve adding substantial weights to the bike.

    Unless you're riding a sub-UCI weight bike, and looking for places to
    add mass to meet regulations, you're not going to insert lumps of lead
    - rigidly or damped - up your handlebars. Even if you need the weight,
    you'll probably be better off putting it down low, in the BB, rather
    than high in the bar plugs, merely for handling reasons.

    I'd rather have a better handling, slightly "buzzy" bike than a
    top-heavy, ill-mannered, over-weight but better damped bike.

    Liveliness, no way to measure it but it is a part of what makes one bike better
    than another.

    Ron

  3. Fakhina Sohl said:

    ...
    The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    is converted into low-grade heat....

    Substitute "elastomer" for "rubber" in the above paragraph to prevent
    the smart-asses that populate rec.bicycles.tech from having fun with it.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

  4. Tom Sherman said:
    Fakhina Sohl said:

    ...
    The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    is converted into low-grade heat....

    Substitute "elastomer" for "rubber" in the above paragraph to prevent
    the smart-asses that populate rec.bicycles.tech from having fun with it.

    As one of them so slyly has.

    Ron

  5. RonSonic said:
    Tom Sherman said:
    Fakhina Sohl said:

    ...
    The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    is converted into low-grade heat....

    Substitute "elastomer" for "rubber" in the above paragraph to prevent
    the smart-asses that populate rec.bicycles.tech from having fun with it.

    As one of them so slyly has.

    I had to beat B i l l S o r n s o n to the punch.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

  6. Tom Sherman said:
    RonSonic said:
    Tom Sherman said:

    Fakhina Sohl wrote:

    >...
    >The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because there's
    >probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it work properly.
    >In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy enough so that it has
    >enough inertia that it will remain pretty much stationary when pushed
    >around by a vibrating excitation. You would connect this mass to the
    >handlebar using a highly damped material - a soft rubber for example.
    >Then when the handlebar vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the
    >rubber has to stretch and relax to keep the two components connected.
    >Due to internal damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms,
    >and doesn't release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy
    >is converted into low-grade heat....

    Substitute "elastomer" for "rubber" in the above paragraph to prevent
    the smart-asses that populate rec.bicycles.tech from having fun with it.

    As one of them so slyly has.

    I had to beat B i l l S o r n s o n to the punch.

    Hehe hehe heheh, he said "elastomer."

  7. Tom Sherman said:
    RonSonic said:
    Tom Sherman said:

    Fakhina Sohl wrote:

    > ...
    > The damped seismic mass option is harder to envisage, because
    > there's probably not enough room inside a handlebar to make it
    > work properly. In essence, you want a substantial mass...heavy
    > enough so that it has enough inertia that it will remain pretty
    > much stationary when pushed around by a vibrating excitation. You
    > would connect this mass to the handlebar using a highly damped
    > material - a soft rubber for example. Then when the handlebar
    > vibrates and the seismic mass doesn't, the rubber has to stretch
    > and relax to keep the two components connected. Due to internal
    > damping, rubber tends to absorb energy as it deforms, and doesn't
    > release as much energy as it relaxes. The vibration energy is
    > converted into low-grade heat....

    Substitute "elastomer" for "rubber" in the above paragraph to
    prevent the smart-asses that populate rec.bicycles.tech from having
    fun with it.

    As one of them so slyly has.

    I had to beat B i l l S o r n s o n to the punch.

    Much /like/ a soft damp rubber, I must be slipping.

    /B

  8. On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:35:26 GMT, "S o r n i"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Much /like/ a soft damp rubber, I must be slipping.

    /B

    Dear Bill,

    Surely you receive occasional discreet advertisements via
    email for drugs that will help in this situation?

    Appalled,

    Carl Fogel

  9. Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:35:26 GMT, "S o r n i"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Much /like/ a soft damp rubber, I must be slipping.

    /B

    Dear Bill,

    Surely you receive occasional discreet advertisements via
    email for drugs that will help in this situation?

    Dear Carl,

    Yes I do, but they can't seem to spell ANYTHING right any more.

    (Besides, I was alluding to a more "/after/-the-{f}act" situation.)

    ClaritiBill

  10. B 1 l l S 0 r n s 0 n said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:35:26 GMT, "S o r n i"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Much /like/ a soft damp rubber, I must be slipping.

    /B

    Dear Bill,

    Surely you receive occasional discreet advertisements via
    email for drugs that will help in this situation?

    Dear Carl,

    Yes I do, but they can't seem to spell ANYTHING right any more.

    (Besides, I was alluding to a more "/after/-the-{f}act" situation.)

    I understand in Australia, a rubber is something 0ne uses t0 erase
    pencil marks, while in 0ther parts 0f the C0mm0nwealth, rubbers are rain
    b00ts.

    --
    T0m Sherman - Earth

  11. Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I understand in Australia, a rubber is something 0ne uses t0 erase
    pencil marks, while in 0ther parts 0f the C0mm0nwealth, rubbers are rain
    b00ts.

    I understand in all parts of the world, rubber is a solid made from
    the sap of the rubber tree, or a synthetic polymer with similar
    properties.

    It's only you 'Mericans who get silly about it.

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber>

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