Rear Shimano hub service without removing cassette



M

Mark

Guest
Hi

I have a Shimano R500 rear wheel that appears to have dry grit instead
of ball bearings and grease in its hub, probably as a result of the
laughably useless "seals". Is it generally possible to remove an axle
from a Shimano rear hub with the cassette still in place? I don't have
the tools to remove one to hand but I do have the right cone spanners
and some grease. The Shimano serice instructions for it make it look
like it's possible but before I break my way to work I thought I'd
check.

Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get the
bearings out of and back into the freehub side?

Cheers,

Mark
 
J

Jon_H

Guest
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi
>
> I have a Shimano R500 rear wheel that appears to have dry grit instead
> of ball bearings and grease in its hub, probably as a result of the
> laughably useless "seals". Is it generally possible to remove an axle
> from a Shimano rear hub with the cassette still in place? I don't have
> the tools to remove one to hand but I do have the right cone spanners
> and some grease. The Shimano serice instructions for it make it look
> like it's possible but before I break my way to work I thought I'd
> check.
>
> Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get the
> bearings out of and back into the freehub side?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark


the non drive side can be done but the cassette will have to be removed to
get the bearings out on the drive side.

cheers
Jon_H
 
J

James Thomson

Guest
"Jon_H" <[email protected]> a écrit:

>> I have a Shimano R500 rear wheel that appears to have dry grit instead
>> of ball bearings and grease in its hub, probably as a result of the
>> laughably useless "seals". Is it generally possible to remove an axle
>> from a Shimano rear hub with the cassette still in place? I don't have
>> the tools to remove one to hand but I do have the right cone spanners
>> and some grease. The Shimano serice instructions for it make it look
>> like it's possible but before I break my way to work I thought I'd
>> check.
>>
>> Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get the
>> bearings out of and back into the freehub side?


> the non drive side can be done but the cassette will have to be
> removed to get the bearings out on the drive side.


Not so. The presence of the cassette lockring makes it impossible to pop out
the drive side dust cap, but you can still remove the bearings and clean the
cup with the dustcap in place. It helps to have some kind of tool - tweezers
or a thin paint knife - to place the balls back into the cup, but even
that's not necessary.

James Thomson
 
J

Jon_H

Guest
"James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Jon_H" <[email protected]> a écrit:
>
> >> I have a Shimano R500 rear wheel that appears to have dry grit instead
> >> of ball bearings and grease in its hub, probably as a result of the
> >> laughably useless "seals". Is it generally possible to remove an axle
> >> from a Shimano rear hub with the cassette still in place? I don't have
> >> the tools to remove one to hand but I do have the right cone spanners
> >> and some grease. The Shimano serice instructions for it make it look
> >> like it's possible but before I break my way to work I thought I'd
> >> check.
> >>
> >> Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get the
> >> bearings out of and back into the freehub side?

>
> > the non drive side can be done but the cassette will have to be
> > removed to get the bearings out on the drive side.

>
> Not so. The presence of the cassette lockring makes it impossible to pop

out
> the drive side dust cap, but you can still remove the bearings and clean

the
> cup with the dustcap in place. It helps to have some kind of tool -

tweezers
> or a thin paint knife - to place the balls back into the cup, but even
> that's not necessary.
>
> James Thomson
>
>



but is it really worth it the OP said he has some gritty substance in the
there so in my opinion he would be best placed to remove the cassette for
less than a fiver the tool is available.

cheers
Jon_H
>
 
A

Al C-F

Guest
James Thomson wrote:
> "Jon_H" <[email protected]> a écrit:
>
>
>>>Is it generally possible to remove an axle
>>>from a Shimano rear hub with the cassette still in place?
>>>
>>>Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get the
>>>bearings out of and back into the freehub side?

>
>
>>the non drive side can be done but the cassette will have to be
>>removed to get the bearings out on the drive side.

>
>
> Not so. The presence of the cassette lockring makes it impossible to pop out
> the drive side dust cap, but you can still remove the bearings and clean the
> cup with the dustcap in place. It helps to have some kind of tool - tweezers
> or a thin paint knife - to place the balls back into the cup, but even
> that's not necessary.
>


A thin screwdriver or a bit of bent wire will hoik the balls out of the
races. To put the new ones in, cover them in grease and use the same
screwdriver or wire to 'scrape' them into place.

One of the advantages of a cassette over a freewheel is that the
bearings aren't that far down the hole.
 
M

Mark

Guest
On 2006-06-26, Al C-F
<[email protected]> wrote:
> James Thomson wrote:
> > "Jon_H" <[email protected]> a écrit:
> > > > Is it generally possible to remove an axle from a Shimano rear
> > > > hub with the cassette still in place?
> > > >
> > > > Assuming it is possible, how much of a nightmare is it to get
> > > > the bearings out of and back into the freehub side?

> >
> >
> > > the non drive side can be done but the cassette will have to be
> > > removed to get the bearings out on the drive side.

> >
> >
> > Not so. The presence of the cassette lockring makes it impossible to
> > pop out the drive side dust cap, but you can still remove the
> > bearings and clean the cup with the dustcap in place. It helps to
> > have some kind of tool - tweezers or a thin paint knife - to place
> > the balls back into the cup, but even that's not necessary.
> >

>
> A thin screwdriver or a bit of bent wire will hoik the balls out of
> the races. To put the new ones in, cover them in grease and use the
> same screwdriver or wire to 'scrape' them into place.
>
> One of the advantages of a cassette over a freewheel is that the
> bearings aren't that far down the hole.


Is this hoiking to done from the drive side? I took the locknut and the
spacer beneath it off the drive side but there's another thing (dust
cap?) below them so I couldn't see the bearings but I'll have another
bash if they're definitely accessible.

Presumably I need to remove the locknut and cone from the non-drive side
to give it some slack?

I have some or all of the tools to remove the cassette but they're at my
parents' house which I won't be going to for a fortnight. This hub is so
notchy (probably knackered, really) I wanted to try to fix it without
removing the cassette.

Cheers,

Mark
 
A

Al C-F

Guest
Mark wrote:

>
>
> Is this hoiking to done from the drive side? I took the locknut and the
> spacer beneath it off the drive side but there's another thing (dust
> cap?) below them so I couldn't see the bearings but I'll have another
> bash if they're definitely accessible.
>
> Presumably I need to remove the locknut and cone from the non-drive side
> to give it some slack?
>


I found that the easiest way was to take the axle out all together, I
think I did it by taking off the locknut and cone on the drive side.
Then I shook out all the bearings, and poked them out where they were
stuck. (A couple stuck themselves in the middle of the hub, but they
came out eventually).

I cleaned up the races, and loaded the bearings into each side with
loads of grease to keep them in place. Then I carefully threaded the
axle back through the hub.

It's useful to do this over a large tray (a drip-tray from a car shop
gives plenty of space) so that you can catch any stray ballbearings if
you dislodge them.
 
J

James Thomson

Guest
"Mark" <[email protected]> a écrit:

> Is this hoiking to done from the drive side? I took the locknut and
> the spacer beneath it off the drive side but there's another thing
> (dust cap?) below them so I couldn't see the bearings but I'll have
> another bash if they're definitely accessible.


Normally you should leave the drive side cone alone and make adjustments at
the other end.

I've realised we may be talking at cross purposes. Do you have an old
fh-r500 freehub, or a modern wh-r500 complete Shimano wheel?

If the former, you should remove the non-drive side locknut and cone, then
lift the axle out past the lockring on the drive side. If the latter, the
dustcap may be too broad to exit through the lockring, but now you've
slackened the right hand lock nut you may as well try it.

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...Schematic.0022.File.tmp/EV-WH-R500-R-2339.pdf

If the dustcap won't come out through the cassette lockring, you're in
trouble, because you won't be able to get access to the drive side cone to
tighten the locknut against it. In that case your best option would be a
visit to a bike shop to ask them to remove the cassette.

Apologies if my earlier advice led you astray.

James Thomson
 
M

Mark

Guest
On 2006-06-26, James Thomson <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mark" <[email protected]> a écrit:
>
> > Is this hoiking to done from the drive side? I took the locknut and
> > the spacer beneath it off the drive side but there's another thing
> > (dust cap?) below them so I couldn't see the bearings but I'll have
> > another bash if they're definitely accessible.

>
> Normally you should leave the drive side cone alone and make
> adjustments at the other end.
>
> I've realised we may be talking at cross purposes. Do you have an old
> fh-r500 freehub, or a modern wh-r500 complete Shimano wheel?
>
> If the former, you should remove the non-drive side locknut and cone,
> then lift the axle out past the lockring on the drive side. If the
> latter, the dustcap may be too broad to exit through the lockring, but
> now you've slackened the right hand lock nut you may as well try it.
>
> http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...Schematic.0022.File.tmp/EV-WH-R500-R-2339.pdf
>
> If the dustcap won't come out through the cassette lockring, you're in
> trouble, because you won't be able to get access to the drive side
> cone to tighten the locknut against it. In that case your best option
> would be a visit to a bike shop to ask them to remove the cassette.


Yes, it's the WH-R500 wheelset. The locknut was loose anyway so it's not
a problem. I'll hang on until I can get the tools -- I should probably
strip it down fully anyway as something seems to have died in there.

Cheers,

Mark
 
R

Rob Morley

Guest
In article <[email protected]>
Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
> Yes, it's the WH-R500 wheelset. The locknut was loose anyway so it's not
> a problem. I'll hang on until I can get the tools -- I should probably
> strip it down fully anyway as something seems to have died in there.
>

If the locknut was loose the bearing has probably crunched itself to
oblivion.
 
M

Mark

Guest
On 2006-06-27, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]> Mark
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> <snip>
> > Yes, it's the WH-R500 wheelset. The locknut was loose anyway so it's
> > not a problem. I'll hang on until I can get the tools -- I should
> > probably strip it down fully anyway as something seems to have died
> > in there.
> >

> If the locknut was loose the bearing has probably crunched itself to
> oblivion.


I think you're right. The axle is very difficult to turn so clearly
something is properly broken. What's the damage likely to be? If it's a
set of new balls then I'll replace them but if (and I suspect this will
be the case) the cups are dead then the wheel's a basket case. Bit of a
bummer as I don't have much cash to buy new wheels.

Important lessons learned: ensure drive-side locknut is tight; don't
assume gritty feeling just means there's muck in the bearings; service
hubs with **** seals more often. Secondary lesson: buy decent wheels.

Cheers,

Mark
 
R

Rob Morley

Guest
In article <[email protected]>
Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2006-06-27, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]> Mark
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > Yes, it's the WH-R500 wheelset. The locknut was loose anyway so it's
> > > not a problem. I'll hang on until I can get the tools -- I should
> > > probably strip it down fully anyway as something seems to have died
> > > in there.
> > >

> > If the locknut was loose the bearing has probably crunched itself to
> > oblivion.

>
> I think you're right. The axle is very difficult to turn so clearly
> something is properly broken. What's the damage likely to be?


It could be an over-tight cone, deformed balls, a knackered cone or a
pitted/cracked cup. You won't really know until you've taken it apart
and cleaned it up. Back in the good old days you could get replacement
cups for some hubs ...

> If it's a
> set of new balls then I'll replace them but if (and I suspect this will
> be the case) the cups are dead then the wheel's a basket case. Bit of a
> bummer as I don't have much cash to buy new wheels.


If you fancy trying your hand at wheelbuilding you may be able to get
hold af a used hub from your LBS and reuse your existing rim and spokes
[1]. We used to get lots of wheels with useable hubs where the customer
had gone for a replacement wheel rather than a rebuild.
>
> Important lessons learned: ensure drive-side locknut is tight; don't
> assume gritty feeling just means there's muck in the bearings; service
> hubs with **** seals more often. Secondary lesson: buy decent wheels.
>

IME locknuts are often loose or bearings adjusted too tight on new
wheels as supplied - the RHS cone can self-tighten if it's not locked up
firmly. An additional problem with quick release hubs is that they may
feel fine off the bike but be too tight when fitted. I usually fit the
QR skewer packed out with washers so I can do it up tight off the bike
to check the bearing adjustment. A slightly slack bearing is far
preferable to a slightly overtightened one.

[1] When reusing spokes I always replace them in the same position,
i.e. inside or outside flange, and pulling or slack, as the elbows take
a set and may be weakened if used in a different position.