UK and Europe · Public discussion

Reasonable? Necessary? You Decide

Started by Nuxx Bar · · Last activity · 115 posts · 2,362 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
23 February 2008
Last activity
11 March 2008
Original author
Nuxx Bar
Posts
115
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
2,362
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 115
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. I'll come up with a complete list of anti-motorist measures when I've
    got time (because it will take a while).

    But for now, I would like people (particularly Spindrift and his ilk)
    to say whether they feel that each of the following events is
    reasonable and necessary to achieve safer and/or less congested
    roads. Each of these events is similar to at least one which has
    happened in real life. Those who take exception to this post (despite
    no opinions being expressed therein, so I can't imagine why, unless
    they're trolling themselves of course) are encouraged to save
    everybody some time and not add their less than 2 cents' worth.

    1. Location: a stretch of wide, straight urban road with compulsory
    cycle lanes.

    Motorist A is waiting towards the middle of the road for a long line
    of oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn right. Motorist B
    (with a line of cars behind) is coming up behind Motorist A and wishes
    to continue past Motorist A, so that neither Motorist B nor the cars
    behind are unduly delayed. There is not enough space to do this
    without going into the cycle lane. Motorist B checks carefully all
    around and ascertains that there are no cyclists anywhere nearby.
    Motorist B briefly enters the cycle lane to get round Motorist A and
    gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from his car
    further down the road.

    2. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Cyclist cycles up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and cycles
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Cyclist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    3. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Motorist drives up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and drives
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Motorist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    5. Location: a stretch of urban road.

    A Motorist parks with the car's bumper overhanging the beginning of a
    double yellow line by 10cm. The car is not obstructing or
    inconveniencing anybody. The Motorist returns to find a PCN attached
    to the car.

    6. Location: a stretch of rural NSL road with double white lines.

    A Cyclist is cycling down the road at 15mph. A Motorist comes up
    behind the Cyclist having been safely proceeding at the 60mph speed
    limit, and slows down to 15mph. The Motorist could overtake the
    Cyclist without crossing the double white lines, but to do so would
    mean going closer to the Cyclist than would be ideal (since the
    Cyclist is wobbling somewhat). After checking that there is no
    oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance, the Motorist briskly
    overtakes the Cyclist, briefly going around 0.5m over the double white
    lines to ensure that there is ample space. The Motorist is fined by a
    policeman who was observing from an unmarked car behind.

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    8. Location: a stretch of rural road through a village with a 30mph
    limit (recently reduced from 40mph). Going out of the village, all
    buildings, pavements and other hazards stop 200m before the speed
    limit changes from 30mph to NSL.

    A Motorist drives through the village at 30mph, then begins to
    accelerate gently once the last hazard is 100m behind. The Motorist
    is doing 35mph as they are nearly at the NSL sign. The Motorist
    receives a NIP in the post a week later as a result of a hidden
    "Safety" Camera Partnership van lasering them at 35mph in the 30mph
    zone.

  2. Nuxx Bar wrote:

    8<... usual [censored]

    Shouldn't you be licking a window somewhere?

    Tim
    --
    Sent from Birmingham, UK... all about me at www.nervouscyclist.org
    'Now some people say that you shouldn't tempt fate, and for them I
    cannot disagree - but I never learned nothing by playing it safe - I
    say fate should not tempt me.' - Mary Chapin Carpenter

  3. "Tim Dunne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:

    8<... usual [censored]

    Shouldn't you be licking a window somewhere?

    Tim

    Sorry Tim, but I'm going to have to report you to the Association of British
    Glaziers. Cruel and unusual punishment, it not actually torture. Why
    should windows have to suffer like that?

  4. On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:30:52 -0800 (PST), Nuxx Bar
    <[email hidden]> said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I'll come up with a complete list of anti-motorist measures when I've
    got time (because it will take a while).

    IOW, you still want to take up our time but can't be arsed to put in
    any of your own.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  5. In article <6ea8bd3b-ff2f-4227-98f7-a5e457545b20
    @u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Nuxx Bar
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    1. Location: a stretch of wide, straight urban road with compulsory
    cycle lanes.

    Motorist A is waiting towards the middle of the road for a long line
    of oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn right. Motorist B
    (with a line of cars behind) is coming up behind Motorist A and wishes
    to continue past Motorist A, so that neither Motorist B nor the cars
    behind are unduly delayed. There is not enough space to do this
    without going into the cycle lane. Motorist B checks carefully all
    around and ascertains that there are no cyclists anywhere nearby.
    Motorist B briefly enters the cycle lane to get round Motorist A and
    gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from his car
    further down the road.

    Perfectly reasonable: a mandatory cycle lane is no more a place to drive
    than a pavement is.

    Quoted message said:


    2. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Cyclist cycles up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and cycles
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Cyclist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    Quite right - anyone who ignores a red light should expect to be
    prosecuted.

    Quoted message said:


    3. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Motorist drives up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and drives
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Motorist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    Quite right - anyone who ignores a red light should expect to be
    prosecuted.

    Quoted message said:


    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    Pavements aren't for cycling - if he was that bothered he could have
    pushed the bike.

    Quoted message said:


    5. Location: a stretch of urban road.

    A Motorist parks with the car's bumper overhanging the beginning of a
    double yellow line by 10cm. The car is not obstructing or
    inconveniencing anybody. The Motorist returns to find a PCN attached
    to the car.

    If there wasn't space to park legally they should have found somewhere
    else.

    Quoted message said:


    6. Location: a stretch of rural NSL road with double white lines.

    A Cyclist is cycling down the road at 15mph. A Motorist comes up
    behind the Cyclist having been safely proceeding at the 60mph speed
    limit, and slows down to 15mph. The Motorist could overtake the
    Cyclist without crossing the double white lines, but to do so would
    mean going closer to the Cyclist than would be ideal (since the
    Cyclist is wobbling somewhat). After checking that there is no
    oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance, the Motorist briskly
    overtakes the Cyclist, briefly going around 0.5m over the double white
    lines to ensure that there is ample space. The Motorist is fined by a
    policeman who was observing from an unmarked car behind.


    Double white lines are used where it is unsafe to overtake. Whether the
    cyclist is wobbling or not the driver should leave at least a full car
    width when overtaking - if there isn't room to do that then it's not
    safe to overtake.

    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    Double yellows mean no waiting at any time - how hard is that?

    Quoted message said:


    8. Location: a stretch of rural road through a village with a 30mph
    limit (recently reduced from 40mph). Going out of the village, all
    buildings, pavements and other hazards stop 200m before the speed
    limit changes from 30mph to NSL.

    A Motorist drives through the village at 30mph, then begins to
    accelerate gently once the last hazard is 100m behind. The Motorist
    is doing 35mph as they are nearly at the NSL sign. The Motorist
    receives a NIP in the post a week later as a result of a hidden
    "Safety" Camera Partnership van lasering them at 35mph in the 30mph
    zone.


    Speed limits don't mean "go no faster unless you think it's OK to do
    so". Even if his average speed in that last 100m was 35mph he only
    shortened his journey by about 2.5 seconds - was it really worth it?

  6. On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:12 -0000, Rob Morley <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1. Location: a stretch of wide, straight urban road with compulsory
    cycle lanes.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Motorist A is waiting towards the middle of the road for a long line
    of oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn right. Motorist B
    (with a line of cars behind) is coming up behind Motorist A and wishes
    to continue past Motorist A, so that neither Motorist B nor the cars
    behind are unduly delayed. There is not enough space to do this
    without going into the cycle lane. Motorist B checks carefully all
    around and ascertains that there are no cyclists anywhere nearby.
    Motorist B briefly enters the cycle lane to get round Motorist A and
    gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from his car
    further down the road.

    Quoted message said:

    Perfectly reasonable: a mandatory cycle lane is no more a place to drive
    than a pavement is.

    Indeed. Why is patience never an option for these people? Seems
    they would rather waste their lives bleating about being caught than
    comply with the law. String 'em up, it's the only language they
    understand.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Motorist drives up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and drives
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Motorist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    Quoted message said:

    Quite right - anyone who ignores a red light should expect to be
    prosecuted.

    How dare you suggest that a motorist would cross a red light. Shame
    on you! Everybody knows that breaking the law in this way is the
    exclusive preserve of cyclists.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A Cyclist is cycling down the road at 15mph. A Motorist comes up
    behind the Cyclist having been safely proceeding at the 60mph speed
    limit, and slows down to 15mph. The Motorist could overtake the
    Cyclist without crossing the double white lines, but to do so would
    mean going closer to the Cyclist than would be ideal (since the
    Cyclist is wobbling somewhat). After checking that there is no
    oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance, the Motorist briskly
    overtakes the Cyclist, briefly going around 0.5m over the double white
    lines to ensure that there is ample space. The Motorist is fined by a
    policeman who was observing from an unmarked car behind.

    Quoted message said:

    Double white lines are used where it is unsafe to overtake. Whether the
    cyclist is wobbling or not the driver should leave at least a full car
    width when overtaking - if there isn't room to do that then it's not
    safe to overtake.

    Indeed. The relevant rule in the HC suggests 10mph as the benchmark
    for a vehicle going slowly enough for overtaking across the line to
    be permissible.

    Personally, I find the worst problem on these roads to be the very
    large tractors that can easily maintain almost 30mph. But if you
    drive on country roads, you learn to live with it.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  7. In article <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,
    you know?
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Personally, I find the worst problem on these roads to be the very
    large tractors that can easily maintain almost 30mph. But if you
    drive on country roads, you learn to live with it.


    But it's really very dangerous, and often not physically possible, to
    drive under 30mph - ask any safespeeder. :-)

  8. Nuxx Bar said:

    I'll come up with a complete list of anti-motorist measures when I've
    got time (because it will take a while).

    Ah, you can't be bothered to do what you promised to do several days ago
    but want us to read your tedious drivel.

    Ta ra,
    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  9. In article said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,
    you know?

    Quoted message said:

    Personally, I find the worst problem on these roads to be the very
    large tractors that can easily maintain almost 30mph. But if you
    drive on country roads, you learn to live with it.


    But it's really very dangerous, and often not physically possible, to
    drive under 30mph - ask any safespeeder. :-)

    Ah, but that's the danger of having to constantly watch the speedometer
    in a 30mph limit, sticking (at least roughly) to a limit while still
    being aware of what is around you apparently not being part of their
    driving test the way it was for everyone else.

    Clearly, the answer is more tractors on urban roads to keep the
    safespeeders below 30mph without having to look at their speedometer.

  10. On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:12 -0000, Rob Morley <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    Pavements aren't for cycling - if he was that bothered he could have
    pushed the bike.

    The fine would almost certainly be overturned on appeal or by judicial
    review. Home office advice clearly states that the FPN is not
    intended for responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use
    the footway out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other
    pavement users.

  11. Nuxx Bar said:

    But for now, I would like people (particularly Spindrift and his ilk)
    to say whether they feel that each of the following events is
    reasonable and necessary to achieve safer and/or less congested
    roads.

    <snip>

    These aren't "anti motorist measures", they are places where a set
    of circumstances has arisen that inconveniences a motorist in some
    perticular contexts. So in the same vein you /could/ say anyone
    wanting to cross the road is potentially "an anti motorist measure".

    A true "anti motorist measure" would be discrimination against a
    motorist for no other reason than discrimination, and none of yours
    fit the bill.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  12. Returning to the topic, I would say that no, Nuxxy's thread is
    neither reasonable nor necessary.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  13. "Nuxx Bar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll come up with a complete list of anti-motorist measures when I've
    got time (because it will take a while).

    But for now, I would like people (particularly Spindrift and his ilk)
    to say whether they feel that each of the following events is
    reasonable and necessary to achieve safer and/or less congested
    roads. Each of these events is similar to at least one which has
    happened in real life. Those who take exception to this post (despite
    no opinions being expressed therein, so I can't imagine why, unless
    they're trolling themselves of course) are encouraged to save
    everybody some time and not add their less than 2 cents' worth.

    My thoughts are valued in British pence and thus far too valuable to share
    with you on this occasion.

  14. Nuxx Bar said:

    I'll come up with a complete list of anti-motorist measures when I've
    got time (because it will take a while).

    But for now, I would like people (particularly Spindrift and his ilk)
    to say whether they feel that each of the following events is
    reasonable and necessary to achieve safer and/or less congested
    roads. Each of these events is similar to at least one which has
    happened in real life. Those who take exception to this post (despite
    no opinions being expressed therein, so I can't imagine why, unless
    they're trolling themselves of course) are encouraged to save
    everybody some time and not add their less than 2 cents' worth.

    1. Location: a stretch of wide, straight urban road with compulsory
    cycle lanes.

    Motorist A is waiting towards the middle of the road for a long line
    of oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn right. Motorist B
    (with a line of cars behind) is coming up behind Motorist A and wishes
    to continue past Motorist A, so that neither Motorist B nor the cars
    behind are unduly delayed. There is not enough space to do this
    without going into the cycle lane. Motorist B checks carefully all
    around and ascertains that there are no cyclists anywhere nearby.
    Motorist B briefly enters the cycle lane to get round Motorist A and
    gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from his car
    further down the road.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough. He didn't have to break the law, he could
    have waited all of one second - which he undoubtedly would have had to wait
    anyway at the next traffic light down the road.

    Time saved: nil. Points on license: three.

    Quoted message said:

    2. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Cyclist cycles up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and cycles
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Cyclist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: not very much; fine, probably £60.

    Quoted message said:

    3. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road with a pelican crossing.

    A Pedestrian presses the button on the pelican crossing, but then
    manages to complete the crossing and continue their journey before the
    corresponding traffic light turns red. No other pedestrians are
    nearby. A Motorist drives up to the crossing, observes that no
    pedestrians are going to cross after carefully checking, and drives
    through the crossing while the traffic light is still red. The
    Motorist gets fined for doing so by a policeman who was observing from
    his car further down the road.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: not very much; fine, probably £60; points on license: three.

    Quoted message said:

    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough. The place to cycle is on the road. Cycling
    on the pavement is substantially more, not less, dangerous.

    Time saved: nil; fine, probably £60.

    Quoted message said:

    5. Location: a stretch of urban road.

    A Motorist parks with the car's bumper overhanging the beginning of a
    double yellow line by 10cm. The car is not obstructing or
    inconveniencing anybody. The Motorist returns to find a PCN attached
    to the car.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough. If you can't park don't drive.

    Time saved: nil; fine, probably £40.

    Quoted message said:

    6. Location: a stretch of rural NSL road with double white lines.

    A Cyclist is cycling down the road at 15mph. A Motorist comes up
    behind the Cyclist having been safely proceeding at the 60mph speed
    limit, and slows down to 15mph. The Motorist could overtake the
    Cyclist without crossing the double white lines, but to do so would
    mean going closer to the Cyclist than would be ideal (since the
    Cyclist is wobbling somewhat). After checking that there is no
    oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance, the Motorist briskly
    overtakes the Cyclist, briefly going around 0.5m over the double white
    lines to ensure that there is ample space. The Motorist is fined by a
    policeman who was observing from an unmarked car behind.

    Lucky to get away with his licence, should have had it taken off him
    permanently. Deliberately endangered the life of both the cyclist and
    oncoming traffic. Personally, I'd shoot the [censored].

    Time saved: nil. Points on licence, probably only three, which isn't nearly
    enough.

    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: probably quite a lot on this occasion; points on licence: nil;
    fine: probably £40.

    Quoted message said:

    8. Location: a stretch of rural road through a village with a 30mph
    limit (recently reduced from 40mph). Going out of the village, all
    buildings, pavements and other hazards stop 200m before the speed
    limit changes from 30mph to NSL.

    A Motorist drives through the village at 30mph, then begins to
    accelerate gently once the last hazard is 100m behind. The Motorist
    is doing 35mph as they are nearly at the NSL sign. The Motorist
    receives a NIP in the post a week later as a result of a hidden
    "Safety" Camera Partnership van lasering them at 35mph in the 30mph
    zone.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough. Points on licence, three; fine, probably
    £60.

    And at the end of that little lot, your driver has for needlessly,
    pointlessly and at no saving of time to himself breaking perfectly well
    known laws four times. totted up twelve points on his licence and is
    deservedly banned from driving.

    The law is the law. If you want to live in a civilised society where people
    don't beat you up in the street, burgle your house, sell your children into
    slavery and so on, you obey the law. And if you don't obey the law, you get
    punished. That's the deal. It isn't difficult to obey the driving laws -
    it's extremely easy. If you can't do it, you shouldn't drive. End of story.

    No sympathy at all.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; If you're doing this for fun, do what seems fun. If you're
    ;; doing it for money, stop now.
    ;; Rainer Deyke

  15. Tom Crispin said:

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:12 -0000, Rob Morley <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    Pavements aren't for cycling - if he was that bothered he could have
    pushed the bike.

    The fine would almost certainly be overturned on appeal or by judicial
    review. Home office advice clearly states that the FPN is not
    intended for responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use
    the footway out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other
    pavement users.

    I am of the opinion that they should be, though. If you go on the pavement
    you ought to get off your bike and walk.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

  16. Simon Brooke said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    Quoted message said:

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: probably quite a lot on this occasion; points on licence: nil;
    fine: probably £40.

    Wrong. He was not parked, merely stopped. No offence (or to be
    technical, contravention) occurred so he should challenge the ticket
    in court. This presumes he did not get out of the car.

    ..d

  17. In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Crispin
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:12 -0000, Rob Morley <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    4. A stretch of fairly narrow urban road with heavy traffic including
    HGVs, and pavements alongside with no pedestrians nearby.

    A Cyclist is finding it uncomfortable sharing the road with the heavy
    traffic, and after checking carefully to ensure that there are no
    pedestrians nearby, cycles on the pavement. They are fined for doing
    so by a policeman who was observing from his car further down the
    road.

    Pavements aren't for cycling - if he was that bothered he could have
    pushed the bike.

    The fine would almost certainly be overturned on appeal or by judicial
    review. Home office advice clearly states that the FPN is not
    intended for responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use
    the footway out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other
    pavement users.


    Shh, don't confuse the issue - Nuxx is still struggling with the simple
    stuff.

  18. In article <5d998b23-8882-4c36-8ee1-
    [email hidden]>, David Martin
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    Quoted message said:

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: probably quite a lot on this occasion; points on licence: nil;
    fine: probably £40.

    Wrong. He was not parked, merely stopped. No offence (or to be
    technical, contravention) occurred so he should challenge the ticket
    in court. This presumes he did not get out of the car.


    You really need to brush up on the Highway Code - double yellows is "no
    waiting at any time".

  19. David Martin said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.
    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.


    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: probably quite a lot on this occasion; points on licence: nil;
    fine: probably £40.

    Wrong. He was not parked, merely stopped. No offence (or to be
    technical, contravention) occurred so he should challenge the ticket
    in court. This presumes he did not get out of the car.

    Double yellows are not DO NOT PARK, they are DO NOT WAIT OR PARK, see HC238

    --
    Don Whybrow

    Sequi Bonum Non Time

    Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.

  20. "David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Simon Brooke said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    7. Location: a quiet stretch of urban road in London.

    Quoted message said:

    A Motorist stops for a minute on double yellow lines to read a map, so
    as not to obstruct anyone's potential path or sight lines. No other
    traffic is nearby throughout the time that they are stopped. A week
    later they receive a CCTV PCN through the post.

    Broke the law, got busted, tough.

    Time saved: probably quite a lot on this occasion; points on licence: nil;
    fine: probably £40.

    Wrong. He was not parked, merely stopped. No offence (or to be
    technical, contravention) occurred so he should challenge the ticket
    in court. This presumes he did not get out of the car.

    ...d

    A double yellow line means no waiting, although whether stopping to check a
    map counts as waiting I don't know. The HC says you can stop to load or
    unload or while passengers board or alight.

    Adam

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.