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RicodJour
Guest
On Jun 9, 6:44 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Sheesh. It's like something out of a soap opera. I wish Rich luck,
but I don't know if posting Butterworth's (I'm changing my brand of
pancake syrup tomorrow) personal information online is a smart way to
go.
R
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Sheesh. It's like something out of a soap opera. I wish Rich luck,
but I don't know if posting Butterworth's (I'm changing my brand of
pancake syrup tomorrow) personal information online is a smart way to
go.
R
R
Ryan Cousineau
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Without regarding this particular story (which I have no reason to
disbelieve, though we are clearly only hearing one side of a rather ugly
tale), it's interesting that the main racing series in the area are run
as for-profit events.
I think that's an interesting model, but locally the road racing (and
the lesser MTB events) are volunteer-driven, and owned by non-profits
(bike clubs, mostly). The few exceptions in road racing would be a
couple of events run by local trade teams, usually as charity events.
Also, the big enduro MTB races (24 hours of Adrenalin, Test of Metal)
appear to all be for-profit. I have no idea what the model in the
running or tri communities is.
As for the Red Rose fiasco, I have no idea what the right answer is. The
other side of the story would be very interesting to hear.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Without regarding this particular story (which I have no reason to
disbelieve, though we are clearly only hearing one side of a rather ugly
tale), it's interesting that the main racing series in the area are run
as for-profit events.
I think that's an interesting model, but locally the road racing (and
the lesser MTB events) are volunteer-driven, and owned by non-profits
(bike clubs, mostly). The few exceptions in road racing would be a
couple of events run by local trade teams, usually as charity events.
Also, the big enduro MTB races (24 hours of Adrenalin, Test of Metal)
appear to all be for-profit. I have no idea what the model in the
running or tri communities is.
As for the Red Rose fiasco, I have no idea what the right answer is. The
other side of the story would be very interesting to hear.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
J
On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
Joseph
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
Joseph
J
On Jun 10, 4:17 am, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> Without regarding this particular story (which I have no reason to
> disbelieve, though we are clearly only hearing one side of a rather ugly
> tale), it's interesting that the main racing series in the area are run
> as for-profit events.
>
> I think that's an interesting model, but locally the road racing (and
> the lesser MTB events) are volunteer-driven, and owned by non-profits
> (bike clubs, mostly). The few exceptions in road racing would be a
> couple of events run by local trade teams, usually as charity events.
>
> Also, the big enduro MTB races (24 hours of Adrenalin, Test of Metal)
> appear to all be for-profit. I have no idea what the model in the
> running or tri communities is.
>
> As for the Red Rose fiasco, I have no idea what the right answer is. The
> other side of the story would be very interesting to hear.
>
Same here. All of the smaller events are run (at a profit) by clubs.
Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
run as commercial enterprises.
Joseph
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> Without regarding this particular story (which I have no reason to
> disbelieve, though we are clearly only hearing one side of a rather ugly
> tale), it's interesting that the main racing series in the area are run
> as for-profit events.
>
> I think that's an interesting model, but locally the road racing (and
> the lesser MTB events) are volunteer-driven, and owned by non-profits
> (bike clubs, mostly). The few exceptions in road racing would be a
> couple of events run by local trade teams, usually as charity events.
>
> Also, the big enduro MTB races (24 hours of Adrenalin, Test of Metal)
> appear to all be for-profit. I have no idea what the model in the
> running or tri communities is.
>
> As for the Red Rose fiasco, I have no idea what the right answer is. The
> other side of the story would be very interesting to hear.
>
Same here. All of the smaller events are run (at a profit) by clubs.
Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
run as commercial enterprises.
Joseph
K
Kyle Legate
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
>
I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
> On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
>
I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
R
RicodJour
Guest
On Jun 10, 1:18 pm, Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> > Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> > finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> > is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> > but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
>
> I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
> alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
> involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
> since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
> better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
> same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
> offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
> line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
> being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
You're probably right, but it's tough playing poker with a guy with
deeper pockets, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
R
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
>
> > Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> > finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> > is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> > but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
>
> I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
> alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
> involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
> since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
> better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
> same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
> offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
> line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
> being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
You're probably right, but it's tough playing poker with a guy with
deeper pockets, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
R
M
Michael Press
Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 1:18 pm, Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >>http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
> >
> > > Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> > > finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> > > is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> > > but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
> >
> > I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
> > alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
> > involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
> > since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
> > better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
> > same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
> > offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
> > line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
> > being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
>
> You're probably right, but it's tough playing poker with a guy with
> deeper pockets, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
That is why one retains competent counsel. You do not have
to take pot-luck either. Whenever you are on jury duty you
can handicap the field. If you see a good attorney you can
retain him or get recommendations when your need is not in
his domain of expertise.
--
Michael Press
<[email protected]>,
RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 1:18 pm, Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > On Jun 10, 12:44 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >>http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
> >
> > > Nobody should ever give up control of their company if they are
> > > finacially dependant upon it not being taken away from them. Hindsight
> > > is 20/20, and it sounds like he was between a rock and a hard place,
> > > but giving this guy his company was a big mistake.
> >
> > I don't think he was between a rock and a hard place. He initiated the
> > alliance with the best intentions but a naive attitude. He should have
> > involved a lawyer at the very least. What he should have done however,
> > since he apparently thinks that his customer-first approach made for a
> > better race experience, is compete outright, scheduling races for the
> > same weekend. If his races are better, the racers will choose what he's
> > offering. Since his competition was solely interested in the bottom
> > line, if people start showing up, he would quickly fold the operation as
> > being not profitable and Mr. Red Rose Races would have his monopoly again.
>
> You're probably right, but it's tough playing poker with a guy with
> deeper pockets, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
That is why one retains competent counsel. You do not have
to take pot-luck either. Whenever you are on jury duty you
can handicap the field. If you see a good attorney you can
retain him or get recommendations when your need is not in
his domain of expertise.
--
Michael Press
R
RicodJour
Guest
On Jun 10, 5:28 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> That is why one retains competent counsel. You do not have
> to take pot-luck either. Whenever you are on jury duty you
> can handicap the field. If you see a good attorney you can
> retain him or get recommendations when your need is not in
> his domain of expertise.
Last year I was on Grand Jury duty for a month. There was one little
hottie of an assistant DA, and the DA herself was a piece of
A...ttorney. Never crossed my mind that I could make up some bogus
story about needing a lawyer so I could see her after hours. Where
the hell were you when I needed you?
R
>
> That is why one retains competent counsel. You do not have
> to take pot-luck either. Whenever you are on jury duty you
> can handicap the field. If you see a good attorney you can
> retain him or get recommendations when your need is not in
> his domain of expertise.
Last year I was on Grand Jury duty for a month. There was one little
hottie of an assistant DA, and the DA herself was a piece of
A...ttorney. Never crossed my mind that I could make up some bogus
story about needing a lawyer so I could see her after hours. Where
the hell were you when I needed you?
R
2
On Jun 9, 6:44 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Didn't take long for the text to come off the Red Rose site.
This is obviously a bummer for the people involved and it a real loss
for the local race scene. Nice events providing an alternative to the
NJ crits. At least for me the PA road races were tough going in the
40+ group.
Word is that local teams will try and cover some of the events so the
calender isn't totally hosed.
Mark
wrote:
> http://www.redroseraces.com/index.php?option=com_races&Itemid=42
Didn't take long for the text to come off the Red Rose site.
This is obviously a bummer for the people involved and it a real loss
for the local race scene. Nice events providing an alternative to the
NJ crits. At least for me the PA road races were tough going in the
40+ group.
Word is that local teams will try and cover some of the events so the
calender isn't totally hosed.
Mark
H
Howard Kveck
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
> run as commercial enterprises.
The idea of 5,000 participants at a cycling event is highly unsettling to me. Can
you imagine that many riders in RAAM? Holy ****...
--
tanx,
Howard
The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
> run as commercial enterprises.
The idea of 5,000 participants at a cycling event is highly unsettling to me. Can
you imagine that many riders in RAAM? Holy ****...
--
tanx,
Howard
The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
J
On Jun 11, 2:43 am, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
> > run as commercial enterprises.
>
> The idea of 5,000 participants at a cycling event is highly unsettling to me. Can
> you imagine that many riders in RAAM? Holy ****...
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> The bloody pubs are bloody dull
> The bloody clubs are bloody full
> Of bloody girls and bloody guys
> With bloody murder in their eyes
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
And they are apparently legally limited to renting only 10 johns.
Joseph
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Only the really big events with 5,000 or more participants seem to be
> > run as commercial enterprises.
>
> The idea of 5,000 participants at a cycling event is highly unsettling to me. Can
> you imagine that many riders in RAAM? Holy ****...
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> The bloody pubs are bloody dull
> The bloody clubs are bloody full
> Of bloody girls and bloody guys
> With bloody murder in their eyes
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
And they are apparently legally limited to renting only 10 johns.
Joseph
D
Donald Munro
Guest
RicodJour wrote:
> Last year I was on Grand Jury duty for a month. There was one little
> hottie of an assistant DA, and the DA herself was a piece of A...ttorney.
> Never crossed my mind that I could make up some bogus story about needing
> a lawyer so I could see her after hours. Where the hell were you when I
> needed you?
Presumably they tend to select all male juries ?
> Last year I was on Grand Jury duty for a month. There was one little
> hottie of an assistant DA, and the DA herself was a piece of A...ttorney.
> Never crossed my mind that I could make up some bogus story about needing
> a lawyer so I could see her after hours. Where the hell were you when I
> needed you?
Presumably they tend to select all male juries ?
B
Bob Schwartz
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> And they are apparently legally limited to renting only 10 johns.
I can't wait to hear what incredible destructive
opportunities are denied the terrorists by limiting
access to porta-johns.
Bob Schwartz
> And they are apparently legally limited to renting only 10 johns.
I can't wait to hear what incredible destructive
opportunities are denied the terrorists by limiting
access to porta-johns.
Bob Schwartz
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