Rest weeks, TSS, ATL, and CTL

[tigermilk]

I'm in the process of building up my CTL after tapering for an event last month. Since the event was a TT, my focus previously was L3-L5 work. Now it's L4-L6 work from now until the end of the year. The intensity builds up the TSS points quickly, and I've been managing TSS with essentially 10-15% increases over the last 3 weeks. The last 4 weeks of TSS scores have been 554, 597, 691, 777. Goal is consistent weeks of 900-1000 TSS.

My body is telling me to rest as my CTL is the highest it's been since last December. Still it's not where I want it to be (CTL > 100). My ATL has been higher than CTL for nearly 2 weeks.

For those that are using TSS, CTL, ATL or similar, how are you planning when to take your rest weeks versus just pushing through?

Typical week is

Mon, Wed, Fri - easy 60 min. in L1/L2 with perhaps some all-out sprints depending on how I feel
Tue - 2-2:30 workout of L6 in AM, hour of sprints in PM, TSS 175-225
Thu - 3-4x20 in L4, TSS > 150
Sat - group ride with TSS 230-300, focus on L5 work
Sun - easier group ride with TSS 100-150

Goal for the Fall is to increase my AWC and short term (1-2 minute) power which are my weaknesses (5 sec ~ 12.8 W/kg, 1 min ~ 6.6 W/kg, 5 min ~ 5 W/kg, 60 min ~ 4.2 W/kg).

 

[frenchyge]

I'll preface my response by saying that I don't like rest weeks. Feel free to ignore the rest of this post if that's going to pose an issue.

I think a goal of "consistent weeks of 900-1000 TSS/wk" is unrealistic. Sounds like you have lots of time to train, but from what I've heard here, that kind of TSS is the breaking point even for pros and their ultimate recovery time and methods. Also, I don't think that kind of TSS is really even necessary to get CTL >100. 5 weeks of a modest 700 TSS/wk, followed by 1 killer week at 910 (130 TSS/d) will raise CTL from 70 to 100, and set you up for a power-taper.

The first thing that I noticed from my bootleg TSTWKT spreadsheet is how CTL can be increased much easier through gradual work, rather than through killer workouts. The Base-building and LSD recommendations make a lot more sense in that context, as they let CTL creep up and up with very little effort or strain on the system. Then, a couple tough weeks get it right up where it needs to be. The question still remains in my mind whether one gets the same benefit in FTP, etc. through that method.

 

[tigermilk]

I'll preface my response by saying that I don't like rest weeks. Feel free to ignore the rest of this post if that's going to pose an issue.

Not at all. Really I want to avoid rest weeks (and my current rest weeks aren't usually that restful - replace 2 hard midweek workouts with 1). Just wondering if some combination of ATL and CTL would suggest when a rest week/period is beneficial before a taper. That is, if you simply say TSB=CTL-ATL, how many days of negative TSB (and what magnitude) suggests a need to rest. That is, does the data (and in some cases the body) suggest a rest period when the mind doesn't?

 

[SolarEnergy]

Rest weeks should not be seen as a consequence of a training programe that is too difficult.

But rather as a micro-taper to trigger an *mini-Form* state in order to acheive something difficult in the week(s) following. Could be a weekend race where you want fresher legs, or an planned attempt to increase power by few watts during the 2X20 FTP workout the following wednsday and so on.

Volume and intensity should not be cut by as much as during a taper, but it is basically done for the same reasons, that is to allow for greater adaptation to take place.

OK. Now that I have preached for periodization, I'll go back to my power training learning. I still have a long way to go before understanding that TSTWKT concept

 

[frenchyge]

Just wondering if some combination of ATL and CTL would suggest when a rest week/period is beneficial before a taper. That is, if you simply say TSB=CTL-ATL, how many days of negative TSB (and what magnitude) suggests a need to rest.

We're all kinda fumbling with this thing without the instruction manual (while Andy likely chuckles smugly ), but I would think ATL, being the fatigue component (in my understanding) is where you should look for that insight. I think Dave Harris has made some posts in his blog regarding the ATL levels he considers to be 'the Pain Cave' and I would imagine there's only so much time one can spend in there in one sitting.

A negative TSB quickly improves back toward zero if you just keep hammering away, so I don't think that'd really tell you when it's time to quit.

Edit: Ok, after checking my memory over at Dave's blog it looks like I'm all wet on a couple points. It also looks like he ignores the rules affecting us mortals with regards to how much training and fatigue can be endured. ( http://teamhealthfx.com/blogs/dave_harris/archive/2006/02/03/452.aspx )

 

[beerco]

Just wondering if some combination of ATL and CTL would suggest when a rest week/period is beneficial before a taper.

This was discussed on another forum and the *general* consensus was that it's really CTL ramp rate that determines if you need a rest week or not.

Again, in very general terms, it was more or less agreed that a ramp rate of around 5 points/week is very sustainable and beyond that it's quite athlete/fitness specific.

An interesting example of how this is kind of self regulating are the results from the "training camps" - Guys from my neck of the woods will go to Tuscon or something like that and put in like a billion miles in a week raising their CTL by like 10 or 12 in the one week. However, if you look at prior week, plus the two weeks afterward that they're tired from the camp, CTL ramp rate is probably going to be somewhere from 5 to 8 points/week.