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Restaurant Rules

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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17 January 2006
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Think of the dude out back who digs it out of the dumpster 6 hours
    later...

    --Blair

    I once worked at a steak house where we cut our own steaks; they would
    bring in sides of beef and we had meat cutters who would cut them.
    They kept careful audits on the meat, and found that a lot of meat was
    disappearing. What was happening was the night cook would take one of
    those sides of beef and dump it in a trash can and tie the bag off and
    throw it in the dumpster with the rest of the garbage (the sides of
    beef were shrink wrapped in thick plastic) then an hour or so after the
    staff and management was gone, he would return and go into the dumpster
    and retrieve the bag of meat. One of the managers was sitting in his
    car parked some distance from the restaurant with binoculars and
    witnessed the retrieval then drove up and fired the cook for theft.

  2. Julia Altshuler said:

    There was a good article in the Miami Herald many years ago that put


    the homeless population in 3 categories.

    Quoted message said:

    1. People who previously had homes. These are people without a


    safety net. They're usually poor, but not necessarily. They might be
    single or have families. They're the ones who had a tiny apartment and
    a low wage job when an event struck that put them on the street. It
    could be an accident (broken leg) that put a physical laborer out of his
    job. It could be a crime (rape) victim that makes a woman afraid to get
    the bus to her job at night. It could be gentrification that puts a
    family out of a low-rent apartment such that the parents can no longer
    work and live in the same area (no public transportation or
    transportation that puts 4 hours on the work day). It could be lay-offs
    or economic recession. Sometimes people are victims of their own
    stupidity as with people who trust the wrong person (invest savings in
    schemes that fail). (Before you judge harshly, remember the stupid
    things you've done when you were younger and the safety net that
    (family) that didn't put you out on the street while you put your life
    back together.)

    Quoted message said:

    This is the group that's easiest to help with social services. If


    the homeless shelter has job training, medical care, transit,
    counseling, apartment finding, maybe money to put into paying deposits
    for an apartment and electricity, the society can make an investment in
    an individual that pays off. The previously homeless can become
    contributing, tax-paying members of the society. They might pay the
    money for the deposits back, but even if they don't, getting a person a
    place to live and a job such that they can bring up their children seems
    like a good deal for most of us.

    Quoted message said:


    Many times there is some sort of public help that doesn't go quite


    far enough. The guy who breaks his leg might get excellent medical care
    from a public hospital so that his leg heals, and he can walk and work
    again, but he might be out on the street with all his possessions sold
    during the 2 weeks he spent in the hospital (if his landlord didn't know
    where he was). (Remember, no kind neighborly landlord, no cell phones,
    no social worker taking care of things for him.)

    Quoted message said:

    2. The mentally ill or mentally handicapped. I've known a few


    families where one sister or brother has Down's syndrome or is
    schizophrenic (also people suffering from bi-polar and depression), and
    the whole family pitches in to take care of the one who can work but
    can't quite take care of himself altogether, but not all families have
    the resources to do so. I know I don't mind if a portion of my taxes go
    to state-supported institutions or halfway houses so that people can get
    supervision. Maybe they can work at simple, highly supervised jobs if
    they have structure and a place to go at home. If they don't have that,
    they can land on the street.

    Quoted message said:

    3. Then there are the addicts. This is the hardest group to know


    how to feel about or know how to help. Give a hardcore drunk a small
    clean apartment, and he'll [censored] on the floor and sleep in his vomit.
    Come up with the best state of the art counseling program, and the
    recidivism rate is still amazingly high. Still, that state of the art
    drug treatment program is still probably cheaper than jail. The only
    thing that works for addicts is letting them bottom out for themselves,
    and some of them never do. I don't want to support addicts; I don't
    want to jail them, and I don't want them hanging out on the streets.
    This one is a puzzle and has been for hundreds of years.

    Quoted message said:

    There's plenty of overlap in the 3 groups which makes it even harder


    to know what to do. You could have a mentally ill alcoholic and someone
    who has temporarily taken up drinking because he just lost his job and
    his home.

    Quoted message said:

    I know of no reliable way of knowing whether the guy who hits you up


    for a dollar in a public place belongs to any of the 3 groups. It is
    hard to gather statistics as to which of the 3 groups is most
    represented in a single area since you could have a homeless person who
    sometimes sleeps at a relative's house, sometimes at a shelter,
    sometimes in the streets.

    Quoted message said:

    --Lia

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    These rules are rather amusing and probably true.
    http://blogs.smh.com.au/entertainment/archives/the_tribal_mind/003016.html
    John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

    " 12. A restaurant in which one wall is covered with signed black and white
    photographs of celebrities is unlikely to be state of the art, even if the
    celebrities include Bert Newton. "

    Non-state of the art can still be great in this instance. There are some old
    restaurants in San Francisco with walls plastered with pictures of
    celebrities and sports figures. They serve good quality, hearty old-style
    seafood. The atmosphere is great and the food still is too.

    cheers,

    rox

  4. Sheldon said:
    Blair P. Houghton said:

    Sheldon lied:

    Quoted message said:

    In the US anyone goes hungry it's because it's their choice...

    False. Do some research and learn something true before posting again.

    Seems to me you're the one needs to prove your point, obviously you
    can't because you didn't. You're all keyboard.

    You're the one claiming everyone has a choice in a country where it's
    clear there's a concerted effort to victimize and marginalize the poor.

    I bet you're one of those toads who thinks that everyone on welfare is
    just a deadbeat.

    --Blair

  5. Blair P. Houghton said:

    You're the one claiming everyone has a choice in a country where it's
    clear there's a concerted effort to victimize and marginalize the poor.

    I bet you're one of those toads who thinks that everyone on welfare is
    just a deadbeat.

    I believe that Sheldon specifically mentioned that there were resources for the
    homeless, like welfare, but that some people choose not to partake.

  6. rox formerly rmg said:

    " 12. A restaurant in which one wall is covered with signed black and white
    photographs of celebrities is unlikely to be state of the art, even if the
    celebrities include Bert Newton. "

    Non-state of the art can still be great in this instance. There are some old
    restaurants in San Francisco with walls plastered with pictures of
    celebrities and sports figures. They serve good quality, hearty old-style
    seafood. The atmosphere is great and the food still is too.

    As soon as he said the thing about the walls and the pictures and the
    celebrities, I thought of Scoma's.

    --Blair
    "It's dungy season, too..."

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Blair P. Houghton said:

    Sheldon wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Talking about yourself, eh... typical rationalization of one who is
    indeed a bum... the poor are poor ONLY because they CHOOSE to remain
    poor... lazy no account [censored].

    Again, you have nothing but your own fantasies that people choose to be
    poor, in direct contravention of reams of data available to anyone the
    past hundred and fifty years.

    But since you have no care, you have no interest in seeing the truth.

    As is usual, the truth lies somewhere in between. There certainly are
    deadbeats, and there are those who are truly needy. There is no good
    way to weed out the deadbeats without weeding out some of the truly
    needy. That is the price we pay for providing a safety net.

    It is possible to provide anecdotal evidence of any number of deadbeats.
    It is also possible to provide anecdotal evidence of the truly needy.
    Neither exercise is very useful.

    --
    Dan Abel
    [email hidden]
    Petaluma, California, USA

  8. Dave Smith said:
    Quoted message said:


    I live in a country that provides social assistance for people in need. Some whine and
    carry on about the taxes we have to pay in order to provide that social safety net. I
    don't. I believe in it and support it. My country is considerably colder than the US,
    so living on the street in most places is not an option. We have shelters for the
    homeless. We have a welfare system and a programs to get those people back on their
    feet..... if they want. From my experience in this country, the homeless don't hang
    out in the small towns of the north. They head for the big cities and congregate in
    the busiest sidewalks of downtown where they can panhandle to the largest crowd. and
    alcoholism and drug use is a huge problem for them.

    Thank you. It's about the same in the US... public assistence is
    available, but it's generational, not a positive social tool for those
    who for whatever reason were bred to always choose the path of least
    resistance. The system is broken when it encourages people to not do
    anything to help themselves.

  9. Dave Smith said:
    Blair P. Houghton said:


    You're the one claiming everyone has a choice in a country where it's
    clear there's a concerted effort to victimize and marginalize the poor.

    I bet you're one of those toads who thinks that everyone on welfare is
    just a deadbeat.

    I believe that Sheldon specifically mentioned that there were resources for the
    homeless, like welfare, but that some people choose not to partake.

    And that many partake, and partake, and partake... from cradle to
    grave.

  10. Dan Abel said:

    As is usual, the truth lies somewhere in between.

    In between what? I never said there were no deadbeats.

    Quoted message said:

    There certainly are
    deadbeats, and there are those who are truly needy. There is no good
    way to weed out the deadbeats without weeding out some of the truly
    needy.

    Actually, you do it by placing other people in close contact with them
    to determine their true status.

    I nominate Sheldon to live with a family on WIC for one month, just to
    find out if they actually are poor by their own choice.

    Quoted message said:

    That is the price we pay for providing a safety net.

    Trolling is the price we pay for not walking over to Sheldon's house
    and taking his computer away from him. We don't so much tolerate him
    as use him to show the difference between [censored] like him and good people
    like us.

    Quoted message said:

    It is possible to provide anecdotal evidence of any number of deadbeats.
    It is also possible to provide anecdotal evidence of the truly needy.
    Neither exercise is very useful.

    There are far more needy than deadbeats. The "welfare queen" stories
    that Reagan ran on were apocryphal extrapolations from the few known
    cases of people who'd defrauded the system using multiple false
    identities.

    You don't let everyone suffer because one of them might be faking. You
    help them all and punish the criminals after you discover their crime.

    Sheldon doesn't understand these things.

    --Blair

  11. Sheldon said:

    Thank you.

    You're thanking him for disproving your volitional theory of indigence.

    Drug and alcohol addiction are not volitional.

    Ignorance, on the other hand, is, and you're exhibiting all the signs
    of 80 years of chronic ignorance.

    Quoted message said:

    It's about the same in the US... public assistence is
    available, but it's generational, not a positive social tool for those
    who for whatever reason were bred to always choose the path of least
    resistance. The system is broken when it encourages people to not do
    anything to help themselves.

    Sheldon, what system are you talking about? Because the one you're
    describing does not exist in this country. It only exists in your tiny
    mind.

    --Blair

  12. Sheldon said:

    resistance. The system is broken when it encourages people to not do
    anything to help themselves.

    Here, buffoon-boy.

    Now. You go prove that everyone who /wants/ to get out of poverty,
    /can/ get out of poverty. No rhetoric. Facts. And the words
    "everyone" and "wants" are not negotiable.

    --Blair

    http://www.omidyar.net/group/poverty/news/31/

    By Jere L Hough (52), Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:26:48 PST
    Edited: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:27:53 PST
    Comment feedback score: 0 +|-

    Pam Omidyar began her topic on poverty with these words:

    By Pam Omidyar (825), Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:38:12 PST

    OK, now I am going to copy from the Barnes and Noble site on this book
    (quoted from the publisher):

    FROM THE PUBLISHER

    "As David K. Shipler makes clear in this study, the invisible poor are
    engaged in the activity most respected in American ideology - hard,
    honest work. But their version of the American Dream is a nightmare:
    low paying, dead-end jobs; the profound failure of government to
    improve upon decaying housing, health care, and education; the failure
    of families to break the patterns of child abuse and substance abuse.
    Shipler exposes the interlocking, problems by taking us into the
    sorrowful, infuriating, courageous lives of the poor - white and black,
    Asian and Latino, citizens and immigrants. We encounter them every day,
    for they do jobs essential to the American economy." We meet drifting
    farmworkers in North Carolina, exploited garment workers in New
    Hampshire, illegal immigrants trapped in the steaming kitchens of Los
    Angeles restaurants, addicts who struggle into productive work from the
    cruel streets of the nation's capital - each life another aspect of a
    confounding, far-reaching urgent national crises. And unlike most works
    on poverty, this one delves into the calculations of some employers as
    well - their razor-thin profits, their anxieties about competition from
    abroad, their frustrations in finding qualified workers.

    SYNOPSIS

    No one who works hard in America should be poor, says journalist and
    author Shipler, but he found many of them all across the country, and
    delves as deeply into the cause and effect of their condition as they
    would allow. Some he has followed for years now. One finding is that
    the rise and fall of the nation's official economy has almost no impact
    on them; another is that they have no time for rage. Annotation ©2004
    Book News, Inc., Portland, OR

    I think the above is one good starting place.

    Here are some other thoughts on

    Defining Poverty:

    In America:

    Poverty is a condition under which single individuals, or entire
    families, do not have sufficient economic resources, or money income,
    to pay for their basic needs. These needs include things such as food,
    housing/shelter, utilities, health care, transportation, and clothing,
    among others. In the United States, the Federal government establishes
    what is commonly known as the poverty line.

    Moving down along the income scale, the poverty line represents the
    low-income level at which individuals and families begin to experience
    serious difficulties when attempting to meet, or pay for, their basic
    needs. The poverty line varies according to family size. Individuals
    and families whose incomes fall at or under the poverty line are
    considered to be living in poverty. A family whose income exactly
    equals the established poverty line has an income that represents 100
    percent of the poverty line. By the same token, a family whose income
    is lower than the established poverty line has an income that
    represents less than 100 percent of such line.

    Each year the Federal Department of Health and Human Services revises
    the poverty line to account for changes in the cost of living, as
    measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), occurred during the
    previous year. In addition, the Federal Department of Health and Human
    Services publishes a list containing National poverty income guidelines
    (a list of poverty lines that vary according to family size). For
    example, for a family of 4, the poverty line for 1999 (based on annual
    income) is $16,700, while for a family of 3 is $13,880.

    In the world:

    Wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty Maslow:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#Deficiency_needs
    Physiological, safety, love/belonging/esteem Debt Related:
    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/Causes.asp

    Trade Related Poverty:

    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty.asp
    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FairTrade.asp

    Very Good site on Causes: http://www.gdrc.org/icm/poverty-causes.htm

    Corporate Causes:

    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Corporations.asp
    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Corporations/Rise.asp

    Peter Townsend (Poverty In the United Kingdom, 1979) defined poverty as
    following:

    "Individuals, families and groups in the population can be said to be
    in poverty when they lack the resources to obtain the types of diet,
    participate in the activities and have the living conditions and
    amenities which are customary, or at least widely encouraged or
    approved, in societies to which they belong. Their resources are so
    seriously below those commanded by the average individual or family
    that they are in effect, excluded from the ordinary living patterns,
    customs and activities."

    For my part, I would say that a basic definition of poverty is the
    chronic inability for families to obtain the necessities of leading a
    healthy and dignified life, even if one or all able family members are
    working or seeking work.

    I would further say that those in poverty have very few assets, and are
    living hand to mouth without savings, or any ability to get by if
    disaster or serious illness occurred.

  13. Andy said:

    It was gross. But back on topic, does this
    happen in other restaurants? I guess...
    probably.

    I'm not so bothered by what they do _after_ the customer has finished.

    You've reminded me of something I saw in a popular restaurant here in
    Colorado several years ago. I noticed a waiter, who thought he was
    being unobserved, take a big swig (through a straw) of a customer's
    margarita as he was carrying a big tray of them to the waiting diners.

    Elaine

  14. Blair P. Houghton wrote:
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Each year the Federal Department of Health and Human Services revises
    the poverty line to account for changes in the cost of living, as
    measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), occurred during the
    previous year. In addition, the Federal Department of Health and Human
    Services publishes a list containing National poverty income guidelines
    (a list of poverty lines that vary according to family size). For
    example, for a family of 4, the poverty line for 1999 (based on annual
    income) is $16,700, while for a family of 3 is $13,880.

    which is about 7 bucks an hour for a full time job. ($13880)

    minimum wage is 5.15

    this makes sense how?

    --

    saerah (150% of the poverty level atm. we'd be doing ok, except for the
    car payments and the auto insurance)

    http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams

  15. Sheldon said:


    Quoted message said:


    I believe that Sheldon specifically mentioned that there were resources for the
    homeless, like welfare, but that some people choose not to partake.

    And that many partake, and partake, and partake... from cradle to
    grave.

    Even longer..... there are some welfare families that have been on it for
    generations. They have homes and food on the table. It's not what I would want to do
    with my life, but you don't have to live on the streets.

  16. Blair P. Houghton said:
    Sheldon said:

    resistance. The system is broken when it encourages people to not do
    anything to help themselves.

    Here, buffoon-boy.

    Now. You go prove that everyone who /wants/ to get out of poverty,
    /can/ get out of poverty. No rhetoric. Facts. And the words
    "everyone" and "wants" are not negotiable.

    That is a far stretch from his comment about the homeless not availing
    themselves of the services provided. He acknowledged that welfare is not a
    perfect system, but there is one in place, and many of the homeless choose not
    to go on welfare.

  17. "Elaine Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Andy said:

    It was gross. But back on topic, does this
    happen in other restaurants? I guess...
    probably.

    I'm not so bothered by what they do _after_ the customer has finished.

    You've reminded me of something I saw in a popular restaurant here in
    Colorado several years ago. I noticed a waiter, who thought he was
    being unobserved, take a big swig (through a straw) of a customer's
    margarita as he was carrying a big tray of them to the waiting diners.

    Elaine

    Perhaps it was the time of day that he was used to having "Happy Hour." You
    never know, perhaps he didn't care whether or not whether he was being
    observed, but just being his usual self.
    I can just see this, 'tis a funny scene.
    Dee Dee

  18. Dee Dee said:

    Perhaps it was the time of day that he
    was used to having "Happy Hour."

    I was having lunch with some colleagues from work, so I suspect _any_
    time of day was "Happy Hour" for this waiter!

    Quoted message said:

    You never know, perhaps he didn't care
    whether or not whether he was being
    observed, but just being his usual self.

    It's possible, although he looked around (a bit furtively, I thought)
    after the fact. He realized that I had seen him, but he never missed a
    beat. Just kept walking.

    Quoted message said:

    I can just see this, 'tis a funny scene.

    I was glad I had ordered iced tea! 🙂

    Elaine

  19. "Elaine Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Dee Dee said:

    Perhaps it was the time of day that he
    was used to having "Happy Hour."

    I was having lunch with some colleagues from work, so I suspect _any_
    time of day was "Happy Hour" for this waiter!

    Quoted message said:

    You never know, perhaps he didn't care
    whether or not whether he was being
    observed, but just being his usual self.

    It's possible, although he looked around (a bit furtively, I thought)
    after the fact. He realized that I had seen him, but he never missed a
    beat. Just kept walking.

    Quoted message said:

    I can just see this, 'tis a funny scene.

    I was glad I had ordered iced tea! 🙂

    Elaine

    Perhaps he spiked your tea so he could have a taste later?
    But I think one could tell.
    Dee Dee

    Quoted message said:
  20. Dee Dee said:

    Perhaps he spiked your tea so he could
    have a taste later?

    Unlikely, as I suspect more customers order margaritas than iced tea at
    his particular restaurant, regardless of the time of day.

    Quoted message said:

    But I think one could tell.

    Probably, but I'm no expert in these matters. 🙂

    I didn't notice any adverse effects, other than eating too fast, and
    consequently, too much. I'm better off skipping a meal, than trying to
    eat too fast.

    Elaine

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