Results of hard off-season training



bgoetz

Active Member
Nov 25, 2010
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We all kept each other sane (or at least semi-sane) by talking about our training in the off-season. As I am sure most of you experienced there were many, many times throughout the winter where I was 2hrs in on the trainer wondering what and the heck I was doing it for. Well, my racing season, which just came to an end this past weekend, is why:

  • I went from a 1st time Cat 5 cyclist to a Cat 3 in one season, and not only a Cat 3, but one who proved they can and will continue to win races
  • I finished up the season with a total of four wins (one Cat 5, two Cat 4, and one Cat 3), one 2nd (Cat 4), and nine additional top 10 finishes (two Cat 5, six Cat 4, and one Cat 3), out of the 20 super competitive USA Cycling races I competed in (four Cat 5, twelve Cat 4, and four Cat 3). That is 70% in the top 10!!!
  • I finished 5th in the Ohio Road race championship (Cat 4)
  • Then this past weekend I capped it all off by winning Cherry Roubaix- the Michigan State road race championship (Cat 3)!! Although since I am from Ohio I cannot be considered the state champion it was by far my best win of the season.

I have had an absolute incredible racing season and can only ask for half as much success next year. This is not a thread of me bragging about my accomplishments, but a thread that will hopefully provide others with a bit of perspective of what an off-season of hard training and dedication can get you.

Many thanks to those who provided me with tons of encouragement and perspective with regards to everything from what water bottle cage to buy to how to tapper my training for "a big peak"!!

Here is to a great off-season of encouragement and hard training that will help us ALL meet our goals for the 2012 cycling season!!
 
Well done. That is quite an accomplishment. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif
 
That was not my experience in my first season racing. 0 wins despite a few races where I was clearly strong enough to at least place if not win, and a bunch of crits where I absolutely killed myself to deliver teammates to the sprint only to find out later that they give up position in the last lap and finish 6th or something....
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz .

We all kept each other sane (or at least semi-sane) by talking about our training in the off-season. As I am sure most of you experienced there were many, many times throughout the winter where I was 2hrs in on the trainer wondering what and the heck I was doing it for. Well, my racing season, which just came to an end this past weekend, is why:

  • I went from a 1st time Cat 5 cyclist to a Cat 3 in one season, and not only a Cat 3, but one who proved they can and will continue to win races
  • I finished up the season with a total of four wins (one Cat 5, two Cat 4, and one Cat 3), one 2nd (Cat 4), and nine additional top 10 finishes (two Cat 5, six Cat 4, and one Cat 3), out of the 20 super competitive USA Cycling races I competed in (four Cat 5, twelve Cat 4, and four Cat 3). That is 70% in the top 10!!!
  • I finished 5th in the Ohio Road race championship (Cat 4)
  • Then this past weekend I capped it all off by winning Cherry Roubaix- the Michigan State road race championship (Cat 3)!! Although since I am from Ohio I cannot be considered the state champion it was by far my best win of the season.

I have had an absolute incredible racing season and can only ask for half as much success next year. This is not a thread of me bragging about my accomplishments, but a thread that will hopefully provide others with a bit of perspective of what an off-season of hard training and dedication can get you.

Many thanks to those who provided me with tons of encouragement and perspective with regards to everything from what water bottle cage to buy to how to tapper my training for "a big peak"!!

Here is to a great off-season of encouragement and hard training that will help us ALL meet our goals for the 2012 cycling season!!

You were a strong rider before you took up racing. You took advantage of being an unknown.

A 5th in a big Cat4 race indicates that you are not as exceptional as you think.
 
haha, sounds like one of those fortune cookies that could not be more wrong if it tried..

Yes I was a strong cyclist before I took up racing, but a strong cyclist does not always translate into a strong racer, it may help, but undoubtedly my hours of training in the off-season was the single biggest factor. How long to do think you remain an unknown for?? Trust me a strong showing at just 1 Cat 4 race and people are watching you. And given that only one of my wins was made from some sort of a breakaway, how did I take advantage of being "unknown".

The 5th in the Ohio State Road Race Championship was a great finish, 3 teammates somehow got off of the front, and no one wanted to work to chase them down. I did far more than my share of the work, really putting myself out there and still took 2nd in the bunch sprint. If you want to pick at my results, how about my 20th place finish at the Tour of the Valley Road Race, where I tried to counter a hard attack up a big climb and blew myself up. That was a strong field, cyclists from New York, Chicago, Canada, over 60 in the Cat 4 field. No big deal though, I took 2nd in the crit the next day, racing is full of highs and lows.
 
bg->I would say you had more than a good year. You had a year most guys would dream of in their first season of racing. I hope your following years will be just as fruitful. There is no replacement for dedication combined with hard work. Your hard work and dedication did have some amazing results. If this continues into your second year than I would have to say you are probably genetically predisposed to do well in this sport. This does not take away your accomplishments but just reinforces that you can have a bright future in cycling ahead of you.

Good luck and do not pay attention to OG. He still has not given us any info of his results cause he is worried of being stalked. Watch out BG the stalkers are coming for you!

-js
 
Great season BG and testament to your hard work. Sounds like you will be highly motivated going into the off season training.
 
30 years old; GOETZ Brent; Maumee Valley Wheelmen

---

See how easy it is to get stalked. That is why I don't give my racing results.

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Get a few years of racing in and you will realize how little your race results impress others.
 
Great work, B! I am impressed with the hard work you invested. Glad to see it translated to racing success. For a good many, myself included, the correlation isn't quite so strong.

For the old guy - are you a stalker or something in "real" life? I'm serious. Those out there that are constantly sounding the "I don't wanna be stalked" alarm definitely make think they're the perps. Life's way too short to play Chicken Little. Furthermore, unverifiable anecdotes from anonomous, fictional internet people are MUCH, MUCH less impressive than those posted by the OP...food for thought.
 
Originally Posted by An old Guy .

30 years old; GOETZ Brent; Maumee Valley Wheelmen

---

See how easy it is to get stalked. That is why I don't give my racing results.

---

Get a few years of racing in and you will realize how little your race results impress others.

haha, I would have posted up my results and my license #, it does not bother me. I could care less if my results impress people, that is not why I race. I race to prove to myself what I can do. My guess is you don't post results because you don't have any, just the way to discuss racing and training I can say with certainty that you have little experience in training and NO experience in racing. The fact that you are trying so hard to come at me, but failing so epically just makes my day all that much better...
 
Thanks for the kind words to all of you others!! I really hope we can keep each other motivated throughout the off-season like we did last year, and not allow one bad apple to taint this forum, there seems to be one on every forum that I have been a part of..
 
Very true on the forum troll(s). I believe we are fortunate that we seem to have just one (very dillusional) troll here. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


I am just entering into another long block of training (hopefully - if work and life do not interfere). I had several days off a couple weeks ago, which put me into a CTL hole and now I am starting to dig my way out of it. I was supposed to participate in a century with my group the past weekend, but my legs felt so horrible that I was dropped at mile 11 and opted to go the metric route instead. Glad I did instead of being my usual stubborn nature because it would have been a long tedious century in solo mode.

I had some more observations about genetics and it impacts training. The guys over at Sports Science also helped me with this complex subject, but I will refrain from discussing this at the moment. It is just an observation anyway, but I speculate as to why it takes me longer to bounce back following time off compare to those who have been training in cycling for many years. Regardless of the longer bounce back period I feel like I am now coming out of the hole (had a two weeks of subpar efforts with my legs just not willing to participate) and my time training indoors is now feeling solid again.

Goal is simple:

work on Sustained effort to work on sustained power output (90 to 100% of FT and long L3/SST efforts on Saturdays)
work on Sustained discomfort training at level for mental adaptation and acceptance
work on Sustained focus because I am easily distracted with thoughts that often has me ending with less than 90% of FT for an effort. My focus is even worse out on long rides in solo mode.
 
So how do you know how much of your off season training efforts actually contributed to your results? Maybe you would have performed just as well or even better with a different training regimen. You could have over trained or under trained and unknowingly hurt your results.
 
From what I can tell in my use of a power meter combined with WKO I am able to track progress and I am amazed of how well the program does align with my actual performance on the road. I would imagine that guys like Dave, RDO, Alex, Fergie and many others who are really well versed in using a power meter and the software can determine all the aspects of overreaching, undertraining, progress or detraining.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .. I would imagine that guys like Dave, RDO, Alex, Fergie and many others who are really well versed in using a power meter and the software can determine all the aspects of overreaching, undertraining, progress or detraining....
That would be nice, but realistically outside of a well structured long term study with good controls there's no way to know if some other training plan would have been better, worse or produced the same results and no good way to differentiate raw talent from great training progress without solid before and after data.

Bottom line bgoetz worked hard in preparation for his first season of racing, hit the ground running and had fantastic results. Could another training approach produced the same or perhaps better results, he'll never know but what does it matter? If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Fantastic season bgoetz, nicely done. No one can say if last year's training was the main reason for your successes, but you'd be a fool to scrap what's taken you this far without a good reason and you can be sure sitting around and eating jelly doughnuts wouldn't have produced the sort of results you've enjoyed.

Great job and keep up the good work.

-Dave
 
I am/was very observant as to how I felt throughout different parts of the season and tried to compare that along with results, making mental notes as to things I would have or could do differently. IMO, I think the dedication, or in my case extreme dedication to any type of plan that makes some logical sense is going to yield good results. You can have the best plan in the world, but if you are not dedicated to it you won't see results. To me any type of prescribed training regimen is difficult to follow to a tee, so while my regimen was structured it could be and was frequently modified as I learned new things about training and about myself. Not only did this yield a better regimen, but it added variety and a sense of excitement to try new things and observe the results.

This year the overall goal may be slightly different because until this season I had never raced, and while I was a strong cyclist, I was certainly not a strong racer. So my training was structured to get the biggest gains in strength, stamina, and endurance in the shortest time period possible (i.e. lots of hard intervals starting clear back in January). This made me a very strong cyclist in the early season, but left me real tired mid-season, as I knew it would, so at that point I backed off a bit, regrouped, and made another hard push to the end of this season. I am not saying that I will not be in this position mid-season next year, I have not really looked that far ahead at my planned races, so I may be. But I will have a much better idea of how to control my overall form, so I hope to more effectively be able to target races.

Also, instead of spending so much time in the early season trying to focus on intervals, I plan to do more LSD on the trainer and really build a solid training base before I go into the hard intervals. This is something that I could not do last year because I felt that I would be better served spending every moment that I could getting stronger and gaining stamina. This year I plan to keep as much of that as I can over the fall/early winter, so going into January I will certainly be much stronger than I was at the same time last year.

So did I have the best plan or for that matter even have a plan, no, what I did do is picked a direction and went as hard as I could. This year will be different, because I am different, my goals may be different, and I have and will continue to learn new things that I will apply to my training. At the end of the day, when I am on the start line, whether I could have or should have done something different never crosses my mind, I have done all that I can do to prepare myself and that is all that matters.
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz .

I am/was very observant as to how I felt throughout different parts of the season and tried to compare that along with results, making mental notes as to things I would have or could do differently. IMO, I think the dedication, or in my case extreme dedication to any type of plan that makes some logical sense is going to yield good results. You can have the best plan in the world, but if you are not dedicated to it you won't see results. To me any type of prescribed training regimen is difficult to follow to a tee, so while my regimen was structured it could be and was frequently modified as I learned new things about training and about myself. Not only did this yield a better regimen, but it added variety and a sense of excitement to try new things and observe the results.

This year the overall goal may be slightly different because until this season I had never raced, and while I was a strong cyclist, I was certainly not a strong racer. So my training was structured to get the biggest gains in strength, stamina, and endurance in the shortest time period possible (i.e. lots of hard intervals starting clear back in January). This made me a very strong cyclist in the early season, but left me real tired mid-season, as I knew it would, so at that point I backed off a bit, regrouped, and made another hard push to the end of this season. I am not saying that I will not be in this position mid-season next year, I have not really looked that far ahead at my planned races, so I may be. But I will have a much better idea of how to control my overall form, so I hope to more effectively be able to target races.

Also, instead of spending so much time in the early season trying to focus on intervals, I plan to do more LSD on the trainer and really build a solid training base before I go into the hard intervals. This is something that I could not do last year because I felt that I would be better served spending every moment that I could getting stronger and gaining stamina. This year I plan to keep as much of that as I can over the fall/early winter, so going into January I will certainly be much stronger than I was at the same time last year.

So did I have the best plan or for that matter even have a plan, no, what I did do is picked a direction and went as hard as I could. This year will be different, because I am different, my goals may be different, and I have and will continue to learn new things that I will apply to my training. At the end of the day, when I am on the start line, whether I could have or should have done something different never crosses my mind, I have done all that I can do to prepare myself and that is all that matters.

Overall I see a lot of good elements to your observations. And from my perspective this is a good point of view.

The end results really are all that matters. No one can have the absolute best plan because there are too many variables in months of training, but each that strives to compete can look at the season ahead, pick a path (hopefully with some evidence based knowledge) and go forward in faith for that plan. I imagine even Bruyneel looks that the team, develops a plan for the coming race season and hopes that the plan will be a success. But even Bruyneel cannot say for certain that his plan would be the absolute best plan. But he has a lot of past experience to rest on. Even for him the variables change with individuals so that he has a macro plan (physiology and experience) and has to work out the micro details that can change along the way based on the reaction to the stimulus and outside stresses and obstacles. It could even be travel or financial logistics that impact the details. But bottom line it starts with a person riding a bike and then from there the rest of the plans start to take shape. It takes shape on his many years of coaching and observing successes and failures.

When I competed I did not have this sophisticated software for my activity, but I did keep a detailed hand written daily log of training, nutrition, emotions and various stresses. It is nice to be able to look back in order to help going forward and for those that do not have a history to look back it is to either pick a path that appears to have worked for others and attempt to establish a plan going forward or hire a coach. As you stated you picked a path to go forward (Macro) and sometimes make adjustment along the way due to variables, obstacles or digression (Micro). Through this one begins to learn what works and what doesn't work. This never implies that the "perfect plan" will be found, but what matters is improvement or not.

This is a much better avenue than those who are just winging it because it is then too difficult to look back and say what works and what does not.

The approach you are taking is a good approach that does not have to be proven to anyone nor explained to anyone and you do not have to be swayed by anyone on this forum with the type of results you had this year. No doubt you will continue to learn and tweak your path as you go. There will be successes and failures, but I can say for myself that in my years of competing I never took a step backwards because I chose the wrong path. Each year I went up another notch. Each year my training just got that much better because I was very observant. I was surrounded by world class athletes and I listened to advice. Sometimes I applied that advice and many times I did not.

I shared an apartment with two females and we all trained with weights (macro) we were different in the small details (micro), but each of us were successful in competition. One became an IFBB pro, the other became a world class powerlifter and a world class weightlifter and I qualified for the NPC nationals. We each picked a path of going forward in our season, but what I see that was common to each of us was we looked back to our history to help plan the future season. We each picked a path, dedicated everything to that path, made small tweaks along the way and progressed another step forward. Meanwhile each of us were well aware of science based training. That part was always the key foundation to the plan.

In endurance sport guys like Lydiard found a way to fine tune the path of raising one's threshold. In his paper he said the old school method would work, but it just takes longer. He picked a path, had faith in that path, dedicated himself to that path, observed that path and ultimately found success. But still no one can say as an absolute that it is the best path, but there have been a lot of successes on that path. I feel from what I read from Coggan that I can trust what he says concerning training in a macro sense.

Ultimately I really like your ending statement because that is exactly how I felt each season I competed even though each season I did improve my training a little more because of experience. At times I wished I had all that experience at the start that I had when I retired from competition, but all of this is a journey for the althete. The experience, both in the hard knocks along with the successes make good memories. Cycling for me is a new journey. I love both the hard knocks and the successes. It is what makes me different than those who start something with good intention and just give up along the way. There are more people that start and quit than those who continue on despite the hard knocks.

Great comment
I have done all that I can do to prepare myself and that is all that matters
 
Great results, congrats.

Sounds like you really have a strong grasp on your training, and with that said, mind if I pick your brain a bit?
Others feel free to chime in... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Assuming your using a PM with WKO, where do you like your TSB to be for an A race compared to a race where you just want to be strong?
I'm a struggling cat 4 with lots of room for improvement with a very low training load, currently a mid 60's ctl.

Thanks
 

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