rewelding aluminium frame - Mercedes bike



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Ric

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I have a Mercedes bike and the top tube has cracked just near the weld to the headstock. Despite the
bike being just two years old and having done on ly 2200km, Mercedes are undecided whether to repair
this under guaranty. They have not ruled out a warranty repair completely, but it is is currently
being deliberated at a higher level. In the meantime I am thinking it may be easier just to get the
frame rewelded. Is this a complete waste of time? Might it be worth getting fillets welded in to
support the new weld?
 
Ric wrote:
> I have a Mercedes bike and the top tube has cracked just near the weld to the headstock. Despite
> the bike being just two years old and having done on ly 2200km, Mercedes are undecided whether to
> repair this under guaranty. They have not ruled out a warranty repair completely, but it is is
> currently being deliberated at a higher level. In the meantime I am thinking it may be easier just
> to get the frame rewelded. Is this a complete waste of time? Might it be worth getting fillets
> welded in to support the new weld?
>
As they said on r.b.t, yes it is a waste of time.
 
"Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ric wrote:
> > I have a Mercedes bike and the top tube has cracked just near the weld
to
> > the headstock. Despite the bike being just two years old and having done
on
> > ly 2200km, Mercedes are undecided whether to repair this under guaranty. They have not ruled out
> > a warranty repair completely, but it is is
currently
> > being deliberated at a higher level. In the meantime I am thinking it
may be
> > easier just to get the frame rewelded. Is this a complete waste of time? Might it be worth
> > getting fillets welded in to support the new weld?
> >
> As they said on r.b.t, yes it is a waste of time.
>
But how long will it last? Given that aluminium frames don't last forever anyway, is rewelding not a
viable option? I only do 2000km or so per year on this particular bike, so if it lasts a year
between rewelding it will be worthwhile.
 
Ric wrote:
>>>
>> As they said on r.b.t, yes it is a waste of time.
>>
> But how long will it last? Given that aluminium frames don't last forever anyway, is rewelding not
> a viable option? I only do 2000km or so per year on this particular bike, so if it lasts a year
> between rewelding it will be worthwhile.

Not worth the bother as he said. You need to know the type of alloy, give it the proper heat treat
cycle, source the same alloy if you want to add strengthening plates etc etc

You could just weld and not heat treat it but I wouldn't ride such a frame - you'd never know when
it was going to fail on you

Accept it - if they won't replace it, scrap it and get a new frame. Sorry

Tony
 
"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> writes:

> Ric wrote:
> >>>
> >> As they said on r.b.t, yes it is a waste of time.
> >>
> > But how long will it last? Given that aluminium frames don't last forever

Aluminium frames may not last forever, but Cannondales (for example) are guranteed for the lifetime
of the original purchasor, so someone at Cannondale is pretty confident they're good for at least
fifty years; which is as near 'forever' as I'm interested in.

> > anyway, is rewelding not a viable option? I only do 2000km or so per year on this particular
> > bike, so if it lasts a year between rewelding it will be worthwhile.
>
> Not worth the bother as he said. You need to know the type of alloy, give it the proper heat treat
> cycle, source the same alloy if you want to add strengthening plates etc etc
>
> You could just weld and not heat treat it but I wouldn't ride such a frame - you'd never know when
> it was going to fail on you
>
> Accept it - if they won't replace it, scrap it and get a new frame. Sorry

And, for heaven's sake, get one from a reputable manufacturer - not a car-maker's advertising
department.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Lusers are from Uranus.
 
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:35:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email protected]>
wrote:

>And, for heaven's sake, get one from a reputable manufacturer - not a car-maker's advertising
>department.

Strange that they make a car that last for ever, but their bike frame falls apart within 2 years.

--
Dave...
 
"Dave Kahn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:35:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >And, for heaven's sake, get one from a reputable manufacturer - not a car-maker's advertising
> >department.
>
> Strange that they make a car that last for ever, but their bike frame falls apart within 2 years.
>
My Mercedes car is two years old to and is also a pile of junk. But that's enough about cars...

Incidentally the Mercedes bike is built by a specialist bike manufacturer in Germany. It is just
labelled and marketed by Mercedes. The name of the manufacturer is something like "Berton" (the
Mercedes people did not know exactly) but I can't find anything like that googling. Any hints? If I
can trace the manufacturer, I suspect they will be more reasonable than Mercedes about replacing the
frame. If not I'll just have to try welding the frame up. The reason I want to keep the bike if poss
is that it folds (albeit rather clumsily) and is rather useful.
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:22:03 +0000, Dave Kahn <[email protected]>
wrote:

[re: Mercedes]

>Strange that they make a car that last for ever, but their bike frame falls apart within 2 years.

Not since the W124 they don't. The bean counters told them to stop overengineering.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
Ric wrote:
>
> Incidentally the Mercedes bike is built by a specialist bike manufacturer in Germany. It is just
> labelled and marketed by Mercedes. The name of the manufacturer is something like "Berton" (the
> Mercedes people did not know exactly) but I can't find anything like that googling. Any hints? If
> I can trace the manufacturer, I suspect they will be more reasonable than Mercedes about replacing
> the frame. If not I'll just have to try welding the frame up. The reason I want to keep the bike
> if poss is that it folds (albeit rather clumsily) and is rather useful.

I thought it was an AMP - http://www.amp-research.com/oem/foldingbike.htm

Did you buy the bike or did it come with the car. It would be worth checking with eg Citizens Advice
Bureau or Office of Fair Trading about your rights. Mercedes cars come with a three year warranty so
it may be that that covers the bike if they were supplied together. You may also have some statutory
rights - e.g they were not fit for purpose - against them or the Finance/credit card company if they
were involved. Know your rights and then tackle Mercedes. Do not rely on them to know or volunteer
your rights.

As an aside, when I was buying a Merc earlier this year I got a quote from a dealer and asked the
local dealer if he would match it. He complained about other dealers undercutting their prices,
wanted to know who had given the quote and said he was going to complain to Mercedes about the other
dealer. I politely asked if they were trying to operate retail price maintenance. He went very quiet
and I took my business elsewhere.

Tony
 
Ric wrote:
> I have a Mercedes bike and the top tube has cracked just near the weld to the headstock. Despite
> the bike being just two years old and having done on ly 2200km, Mercedes are undecided whether to
> repair this under guaranty. They have not ruled out a warranty repair completely, but it is is
> currently being deliberated at a higher level. In the meantime I am thinking it may be easier just
> to get the frame rewelded. Is this a complete waste of time? Might it be worth getting fillets
> welded in to support the new weld?

If the subject is still being deliberated, don't do anything at all to the frame; what if they agree
to replace it, and you've just welded a six inch plate to it? Once you have a final answer, then you
can destroy it in anyway you wish.

In a similar situation, I'd be looking at buying a new frame, and transfer the parts over.

Regards,

Pete.
--

Peter Connolly Derby UK
 
Dave Kahn <[email protected]> writes:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:35:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >And, for heaven's sake, get one from a reputable manufacturer - not a car-maker's advertising
> >department.
>
> Strange that they make a car that last for ever, but their bike frame falls apart within 2 years.

The thing is that the 'Mercedes' bike wasn't made by Mercedes. It was made by an industrial design
company called AMP Research, who had no previous experiecne of designing or building bicycles. The
most important aspect of the design brief, according to AMP's self-congratulatory write up, was that

'it symbolized the car marker's new, more youthful brand image.'

Great way to build a bike.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Lusers are from Uranus.
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> The thing is that the 'Mercedes' bike wasn't made by Mercedes. It was made by an industrial
> design company called AMP Research, who had no previous experiecne of designing or building
> bicycles. The most important aspect of the design brief, according to AMP's self-congratulatory
> write up, was that
>

AMP have been designing and building bikes for years. They did have a reputation for building light
suspension bikes that were a bit too light for their own good though.

Tony
 
Totally off-topic Simon but have you looked at http://www.ybw.com/cgi-
bin/forums/postlist.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93 concerning sailing?

I agree ukrs has become just too unbearable.
 
"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Your experience has been nothing compared to mine. I ordered my car while I was living in Germany,
then moved to France before delivery. The rest is a total nightmare. If you're interested, search
the Mercedes group under my name. The so called "worldwide warranty" of Mercedes is basically
worthless - you get treated like a fart in a space-suit if you buy a Mercedes in another country
from your latest place of residence. Never buy a Mercedes car (or indeed a bike) if you foreseeably
need to move country. But that is enough about cars. My Mercedes bike is pretty **** too. It has
already had two warranty repairs - and each time it is absent for a minimum of about seven weeks
because the dealers can't repair it themselves. I'm sure everyone here would agree with me that I
was totally stupid to buy a bike from a car manufacturer - the after-sales service is scheiß.
 
"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I thought it was an AMP - http://www.amp-research.com/oem/foldingbike.htm

I think that was the "last generation" MB bike which was a failure. The sketches on the site look
nothing like my bike. The new generation MB bike was definitely built by a company in Germany that
sounds like "Berton" (according to MB France pronunication of a German name) but I can't find a
reference on Google. The new generation bike is still pretty dodgy, but I'd like to at least give
them a chance to replace the frame if I could contact them directly.
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:13:33 +0100, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Incidentally the Mercedes bike is built by a specialist bike manufacturer in Germany. It is just
>labelled and marketed by Mercedes. The name of the manufacturer is something like "Berton" (the
>Mercedes people did not know exactly)...

To my mind that's totally irrelevant. If Mercedes are happy to put their name on it they should be
prepared to stand by it. Furthermore if they care about their reputation they should satisfy
themselves that the manufacturing standard is worthy of their name.

--
Dave...
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:36:47 +0100, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Totally off-topic Simon but have you looked at http://www.ybw.com/cgi-
>bin/forums/postlist.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93 concerning sailing?
>
>I agree ukrs has become just too unbearable.

i've been lurking there for a while and registered a while ago. i've effectively written off ukrs as
a meaningful forum.
 
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