Road Rage

Gags said:

I am still sticking with my "softly softly" approach to communication with
drivers and I just hope that I don't end up with this guys car pointed at me
at any time in the future.

Crikey! Send him my way... so I can tell him how f'kin huge you are! Take away his car, my money is on you 100% 🙂

On a happy 'car' note - the drivers back home were awesome this weekend most giving me a whole lane when over taking. I might make more of an effort to head back there (and through the Grampians) this summer.

Anyone up for 'Camp BR' in Halls Gap one weekend?

cheers,
GPL

Gags said:

Last Monday at just after 7am, I was riding along Heidelberg Rd and had just
crossed the Chandler Hwy intersection at about 35km/h or so and then a car
pulled out from the next Rd on the left, cutting me off and forcing me to
swerve to brake fairly hard. I ended up in the bike lane to his left and
took my right hand off the bars and gave a "c'mon mate, give me a break"
gesture and said "have a look mate". The guy was probably early 20s and
dressed in a suit, with a female also dressed in business wear in the
passenger seat. The guy sped up and swerved across in front of me but I
managed to avoid him fairly easily. The car then sped up to the servo that
is another couple hundred metres on the left and pulled into the driveway
fairly quickly. As I rode past, the guy had gotten out of the car and was
heading back towards the road and presumably was going to have a go at me.
He was a bit slow in getting there though but he did manage to impress me
with his inventive use of the english language.....I think it was "fckn cmon
then you fckn cnt". The guy was very agitated and I was quite surprised
given that it was 7am on a Monday and my reaction to him cutting me off was
deliberately very moderate.

Anyway, I kept riding towards the city, expecting him at anytime to scream
past again and either cut me off or try to get out of the car again. He
must have had some trouble getting back in the traffic or got stuck at
lights because I made it all the way to Wellington Rd before I heard a car
coming at speed and, sure enough, he hung off the horn and swerved to within
a foot or so of me. Fortunately for me, I turn off there and that was the
last I saw of him. When I got to work, I immediately wrote a stat dec and
had it signed by a JP so that I have a record of the event. I am not sure
if I should put in a police report or not as I really don't want anything to
do with this guy as I think he may be mentally unstable. He wasn't a real
big guy and usually I would have pulled in at the servo to see what it was
he wanted to talk to me about but I had a commitment on Tuesday for which I
couldn't afford to be sporting any facial injuries.

I am not someone to hold a grudge but this one has gotten under my skin a
bit. He fails to give way to me and then has the nerve to threaten me with
his car, threaten physical violence, and then threaten me with his car
again?!? If someone threatened me with a knife or gun I am reasonably
confident that I could get a result from the police but being threatened
with a car just doesn't seem to be regarded in the same light. I may be
totally wrong and I am not having a go at the police but I have read too
many similar accounts in this forum where cyclists have not been taken
seriously when reporting such incidents.

I am still sticking with my "softly softly" approach to communication with
drivers and I just hope that I don't end up with this guys car pointed at me
at any time in the future.

Gags

Definitely report it to the police. They won't take kindly to someone
threatening a cyclist with a 1.5+ tonne lump of steel.

Ben

gplama said:

Gags said:

I am still sticking with my "softly softly" approach to communication
with
drivers and I just hope that I don't end up with this guys car pointed
at me
at any time in the future.

Crikey! Send him my way... so I can tell him how f'kin huge you are!
Take away his car, my money is on you 100% 🙂

That was my thinking too. Actually I think it was all just a mistake
caused by the fact the guy was blind. You'd have to be blind to not see
Gags is a fairly large lad to be picking a fight with.

And I'll submit a vote for reporting him. If it was an isolated event
then no harm done, but if he does it all the time it is more likely to
be picked up.

DaveB

Gags said:

I am still sticking with my "softly softly" approach to communication with
drivers and I just hope that I don't end up with this guys car pointed at me
at any time in the future.

That's a very wise option, staying neutral, monitoring the situation and reporting it if you see fit.

On a happier note, while riding around the Yarra Boulie area, Chandler Hwy, Clifton Hill, inner 'burbs on Sunday, I was damn impressed with the behaviour of drivers and peds. Much goodwill, waving on, "no you go through", smiles, nods, yielding for cyclists, polite ringing of bells as a advance warning, calls of "passing" etc. Even had two seperate incidents of little kids waving & smiling, one in a boat while crossing Kanes Bridge and the other in a pram at the Rushall Station underpass.

Kinda made up for almost losing my breakfast on a mild Yarra Boulie climb, but hey, when you're convalescing that's the sort of [censored] you have to work through. 🙁

Back to road rage and reporting incidents, Fiona from Sydney's MASSBUG penned this brilliant article on dealing with road incidents et al, it's NSW specific but there's plenty of good tips and headsups for all cyclists.

Bike Tips: Reporting traffic incidents to police:
http://www.massbug.org.au/twiki/pub/MASSBUG/WebHome/Bike_Tipsreportingtopolice.pdf

Gags said:

-- snip --
I am not someone to hold a grudge but this one has gotten under my skin a
bit. He fails to give way to me and then has the nerve to threaten me with
his car, threaten physical violence, and then threaten me with his car
again?!? If someone threatened me with a knife or gun I am reasonably
confident that I could get a result from the police but being threatened
with a car just doesn't seem to be regarded in the same light. I may be
totally wrong and I am not having a go at the police but I have read too
many similar accounts in this forum where cyclists have not been taken
seriously when reporting such incidents.
Gags

well not quite road rage, but following on from my near death experience and subsequent mawling at the hands of our insurance company. Then finding out the girl who hit me earns $200 a week and has no insurance what so ever. I have decided even though I am fully aware I will probably not get any money from her, that we are going to go ahead with action to sue her and if not anything at all teach her to take responsibility for her actions. We are hoping that best case scenario she will have to declare bankruptcy and have that mark against her for a few years. When I found out she did not even have the decency to have Third Party insurance to cover damage to other peoples property I just lost it.

Moral of the story, always try and get hit by a person driving/owning an expensive car with good insurance, but make sure you survive.

cfsmtb said:

Bike Tips: Reporting traffic incidents to police:
massbug.org.auBike Tipsreportingtopolice.pdfOpen ↗

Does BV have a similar guide to this for victoria?

pase said:

Does BV have a similar guide to this for victoria?

Probably not in as much detail, although it wouldn't take much to rejig it. I'll suggest to ask Fiona for permission to use her material as a basis, I've already quoted & linked the pdf here as part of this WoJ page: http://www.woj.com.au/crankbusters/state-police-links/

Maybe broader-themed article, with a national perspective could be beneficial?

Gags wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

his car, threaten physical violence, and then threaten me with his car
again?!? If someone threatened me with a knife or gun I am reasonably
confident that I could get a result from the police but being threatened
with a car just doesn't seem to be regarded in the same light. I may be
totally wrong and I am not having a go at the police but I have read too
many similar accounts in this forum where cyclists have not been taken
seriously when reporting such incidents.

<snip>

I'm one of those cases. The explanation I received was, "If
someone said they were going to kill you, and they were
weilding a knife or a gun, then we would be able to charge
them, but they weren't weilding a dangerous weapon."

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

Gags said:

Last Monday at just after 7am, I was riding along Heidelberg Rd and had just
crossed the Chandler Hwy intersection at about 35km/h or so and then a car
pulled out from the next Rd on the left,

<SNIP>

Gags

Knowing that area, there is a good chance Mr Agrodriver lives in that side st.
Did you get his rego?

Tamyka Bell said:

I'm one of those cases. The explanation I received was, "If
someone said they were going to kill you, and they were
weilding a knife or a gun, then we would be able to charge
them, but they weren't weilding a dangerous weapon."

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

Yes, but did they actually DO anything? Like lay charges, arrest the driver?

I've often had police officers who saw my point of view "but we can't do
anything, the magistrate would laugh it out of court"

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

Peter Signorini said:

Tamyka Bell said:

I'm one of those cases. The explanation I received was, "If
someone said they were going to kill you, and they were
weilding a knife or a gun, then we would be able to charge
them, but they weren't weilding a dangerous weapon."

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

Yes, but did they actually DO anything? Like lay charges, arrest the driver?

I've often had police officers who saw my point of view "but we can't do
anything, the magistrate would laugh it out of court"

They called him, but it was my word against his (he lied,
needless to say). The police offered to continue, but I
didn't think it would be worth the cost and heartache, given
I had no uninvolved witnesses, and I hoped that the phone
call from the police would be enough to worry him. I figured
if it wasn't, then I was better off never letting him know
my name.

T

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 at 13:18 GMT, gplama (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Anyone up for 'Camp BR' in Halls Gap one weekend?

Yes.

And also, I think you guys should come up here. Took the bus this
morning, and it looks like my commute is going to rock when I get my
biek.

--
TimC
Five is a sufficiently close approximation to infinity.
-- Robert Firth

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 at 04:18 GMT, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

Tamyka Bell said:

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

Yes, but did they actually DO anything? Like lay charges, arrest the driver?

I've often had police officers who saw my point of view "but we can't do
anything, the magistrate would laugh it out of court"

They called him, but it was my word against his (he lied,
needless to say). The police offered to continue, but I
didn't think it would be worth the cost and heartache, given
I had no uninvolved witnesses,

What do you mean by "uninvolved witness"? It's up to the magistrate
to determine whether any witnesses are independant and/or trust worthy
enough to use their account.

--
TimC
"Eppur si muove!" (And yet it does move!)
-- Galileo Galilei

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 at 00:25 GMT, MikeyOz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

well not quite road rage, but following on from my near death
experience and subsequent mawling at the hands of our insurance
company. Then finding out the girl who hit me earns $200 a week and has
no insurance what so ever. I have decided even though I am fully aware I
will probably not get any money from her, that we are going to go ahead
with action to sue her and if not anything at all teach her to take
responsibility for her actions. We are hoping that best case scenario
she will have to declare bankruptcy and have that mark against her for
a few years. When I found out she did not even have the decency to
have Third Party insurance to cover damage to other peoples property I
just lost it.

That's illegal, is it not?

Sue her, and make sure the police know she was driving uninsured. She
isn't driving any longer, I trust?

--
TimC
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall

Ben Thomas said:

Definitely report it to the police.

Careful Ben or we'll report you to the net police, please learn how to snip.

Parbs - channeling DRS

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:30:58 GMT

TimC said:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 at 00:25 GMT, MikeyOz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

she will have to declare bankruptcy and have that mark against her for
a few years. When I found out she did not even have the decency to
have Third Party insurance to cover damage to other peoples property I
just lost it.

That's illegal, is it not?

Nope. THe only compulsory insurance in Oz is the third party personal
to cover damage you do to people. Covering property is optional.

In such a situation you usually have to go to small claims and end up
being paid off at $10 a week.

Zebee

Gags said:

The guy was probably early 20s and dressed in a suit, with a female also dressed in business wear in the passenger seat. ....guy was very agitated ...7am on a Monday...

Gags

Yep, the 'stay up all week-end' drugs from Friday night had probably not worn off and he had probably not yet been to bed since taking them.

Tell the police you think he may have been drug affected. That might [censored] up their interest.

SteveA

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gags wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

his car, threaten physical violence, and then threaten me with his car
again?!? If someone threatened me with a knife or gun I am reasonably
confident that I could get a result from the police but being threatened
with a car just doesn't seem to be regarded in the same light. I may be
totally wrong and I am not having a go at the police but I have read too
many similar accounts in this forum where cyclists have not been taken
seriously when reporting such incidents.

<snip>

I'm one of those cases. The explanation I received was, "If
someone said they were going to kill you, and they were
weilding a knife or a gun, then we would be able to charge
them, but they weren't weilding a dangerous weapon."

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

So they bloody well should.

In NSW there are Menacing and Predatory Driving charges that can be laid
(since 1999) although it only applies to motor vehicles strangely enough,
or maybe deliberately knowing the Labor Party and Michael Egan who
introduced the Bill.
Motor Traffic Act, sec 51A Predatory Driving

(1) The driver of a vehicle who, while in pursuit of or travelling near
another vehicle
(a) engages in a course of conduct that causes or threatens an impact
involving the other vehicle, and
(b) intends by that course of conduct to cause a person in the other
vehicle actual bodily harm,
is guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for 5 years.
The Vics apparently didnt think it was important enough to introduce these
new crimes.

There is an article at www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tandi311t.html
which says only 6 out of 61 Predatory Driving charges have been successful
and the stats for Menacing Driving werent even collected. The article
proposes better definitions of what Road Rage is - Road Violence is what
they call it, or Road Hostility if it is non-violent. Selfish Driving is
what they call "driving behaviour with the objective of gaining time, space
and pleasure but without the intention to harm people" - I thought that was
a fair definition of what most Sydney drivers are up to!.

fb

Fractal said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gags wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

his car, threaten physical violence, and then threaten me with his car
again?!? If someone threatened me with a knife or gun I am reasonably
confident that I could get a result from the police but being threatened
with a car just doesn't seem to be regarded in the same light. I may be
totally wrong and I am not having a go at the police but I have read too
many similar accounts in this forum where cyclists have not been taken
seriously when reporting such incidents.

<snip>

I'm one of those cases. The explanation I received was, "If
someone said they were going to kill you, and they were
weilding a knife or a gun, then we would be able to charge
them, but they weren't weilding a dangerous weapon."

I asked them to explain how that differed from someone
driving a car, saying, "I'm going to run you over, I'm going
to fscking kill you" - given they had indicated their
intent to kill me using their car, and they were driving at
the time.

They saw my point of view, which was nice.

So they bloody well should.

In NSW there are Menacing and Predatory Driving charges that can be laid
(since 1999) although it only applies to motor vehicles strangely enough,
or maybe deliberately knowing the Labor Party and Michael Egan who
introduced the Bill.
Motor Traffic Act, sec 51A Predatory Driving

(1) The driver of a vehicle who, while in pursuit of or travelling near
another vehicle
(a) engages in a course of conduct that causes or threatens an impact
involving the other vehicle, and
(b) intends by that course of conduct to cause a person in the other
vehicle actual bodily harm,
is guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for 5 years.
The Vics apparently didnt think it was important enough to introduce these
new crimes.

There is an article at www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tandi311t.html
which says only 6 out of 61 Predatory Driving charges have been successful
and the stats for Menacing Driving werent even collected. The article
proposes better definitions of what Road Rage is - Road Violence is what
they call it, or Road Hostility if it is non-violent. Selfish Driving is
what they call "driving behaviour with the objective of gaining time, space
and pleasure but without the intention to harm people" - I thought that was
a fair definition of what most Sydney drivers are up to!.

Are you sure that the definition of 'vehicle' does not include bicycle?
Stranger things have happened.

Nice bit of law - I must see if it has been contemplated or passed in
Qld.

Donga