Roche Says Lance is Finished



D

David Off

Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm

Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six
Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche.
Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche
believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will halt the Texan's
historic bid.

"I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
BBC Sport.

"He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
rider physically anymore."

He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler
Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not
appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
years ago.

And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his
runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking
about him carrying too much weight and not looking as sharp
in races as before, but that's nonsense," said Roche.

"He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour
of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
exactly the right time."

Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
previous seasons.

He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his
rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said Roche.
"Those cracks are only going to get wider."
 
Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France
Foiled By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM

PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004
Tour de France, Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in
clear and eternal glory. Another victory and he would create
a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler Hamilton was
coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began to look weary.
There would be no six-time Tour de France champion.

Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan Bruyneel,
Lance Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble. "When I
looked back and saw the way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us,
yeah, I thought we were going to get beat," Bruyneel said.

Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance Armstrong
in his sights, and 7 stages from the last stage, Urs
Freuler's stallion went by the five time Tour de France
champion en route to a commanding victory before a crowd of
millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in
France. For the first time in five years, Lance Armstrong
didn't win.

Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques
Michaud, and René Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed
emotions after last year's situation when Tyler emerged from
obscurity last July to become Massachusetts' favorite son
and an international celebrity.

As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out, Freuler
got on Bruyneel' s radio frequency and told him, "Better
luck next time jackass! You were a fool for letting your
pretty boy do all those OLN segments and all those other car
commercials." It surprised Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in
an agitated state.

"He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are
you going to do? That's bike racing.'"

Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race and
completing his personal goal. Besides winning 15 stages of
the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages of the Tour de France, 5 stages
of the Tour de Romandie, 9 stages of the Tour de Suisse, Urs
Freuler also took 10 World Track titles. After not making
the podium last year at the Tour de France, the Swiss native
not only won this year's Tour de France but also did it
without Tyler using any performance enhancing drugs. Still,
he felt for those who yearned for a Lance victory.

"What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad
worked and it was an emotional thing. It's sad because Lance
was great for racing."

Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and
overjoyed. Her feelings were confusing. "This means so much
to me," she said.

"This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton,
Tyler's father] is the one who decided that we breed and
produce this year's Tour de France champion. But we do feel
bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's bittersweet. We were
rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We love Lance. I think
Lance has done more for the racing community and people who
love cycling."

Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged badly
by David Walsh and Pierre Ballester at the end of a glorious
ride through France. Bruyneel, the only Belgian coach Lance
has ever known, asked far too much of him in the most
grueling race Lance will ever run.

Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the top
of Plateau de Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the first
feed zone and two minutes back at the base of the last climb
while always battling just to stay in the peloton. His
pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he looked more
angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler Hamilton crossed
the finish line to win the stage.

"We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel
said minutes later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race
without getting that stabilized. I knew when we didn't
win Plateau de Beille that we were in a little trouble.
He just wasn't stabilized the way he was in the previous
two stages."

After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and Oscar
Sevilla while chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo, Lance
Armstrong took the early lead on the L'Alpe d'Huez stage by
10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had him kick for
home early -- too early -- and opened a 20 second lead 6
kilometers from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich
were done, but Tyler Hamilton proved to have the biggest
schlong of the day and won big time.

The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably to
the finish in Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the heat
down the backstretch, and although Tyler was far back,
Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton was on cruise
control, and Lance wasn't home free.

"At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we
had a good shot," Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and
saw Tyler Hamilton smoking a cigarette and thought we might
be in trouble."

He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead
for good, and Lance had nothing left to throw at him. Tyler
Hamilton lost only 12 seconds in the descent into the Le
Grand Bornand finish while Lance Armstrong rode at 60
kilometers per hour in the last 2 kilometers, way too fast
to recover for the next day.

Millions of American people were seriously bummed out
because Lance got beat in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask
if Lance would come to California to appear on his show.
President Bush issued an open invitation for Lance to visit
the Rose Garden. One woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if
she could have a nude photo shoot taken with Lance. All were
turned down.

"It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said
Friday. "It's just kind of snowballed. It seems like the
story is flowing across the country and everyone has
kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
favorite Texan."

"I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so
many bad things going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters
of Boulder said when he came to the Paris finish of the Tour
de France. "People get tired of looking at the bad things on
the front page and they skip to the sports page. They get to
read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas
cyclist who's doing swell."

"It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully it
continues."

Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.

Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the
pain with class and grace. While Freuler was being
interviewed after the race, Bruyneel congratulated him with
a crushing Belgian handshake.

"Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make
big history here. We didn't do it. We've had a great
year. I'm not going to put my head down. I'm proud of the
whole team and everybody needs to be happy. They don't
need to be sad."

Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and
that wouldn't change Monday morning.


"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
05.noos.net...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/385-
> 8759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
> six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
> Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
> Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
> halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
> BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
> tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
> rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
> Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
> not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.
>
> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
> Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
> times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
> close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
> years ago.
>
> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
> his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
> talking about him carrying too much weight and not
> looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> nonsense," said Roche.
>
> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
> Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
> exactly the right
time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
> champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
> and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
> previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
> final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
> his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
> Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."
 
Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!

"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
05.noos.net...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/385-
> 8759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
> six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
> Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
> Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
> halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
> BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
> tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
> rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
> Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
> not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.
>
> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
> Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
> times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
> close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
> years ago.
>
> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
> his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
> talking about him carrying too much weight and not
> looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> nonsense," said Roche.
>
> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
> Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
> exactly the right
time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
> champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
> and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
> previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
> final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
> his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
> Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."
 
I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is
a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping
through his autobiography last night [The Agony and the
Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH :)] and he really does have
interesting and accurate observations as to then current
riders. We'll soon know.

"robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
>
>
> "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
> 05.noos.net...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/38-
> > 58759.stm
[snip]
 
David Off <[email protected]> wrote:

> France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong
> is the race

Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat
tube slope? Something like 55 degs or something? I
looked for that pictures of that bike at some point but
couldn't find it.

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected]
[email protected] 20 Penn Str - S218E
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy
and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab) University
of Maryland -1273 (off) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax:
1-410-706-2512
 
B. Lafferty wrote:

> I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,
> is a fairly perceptive race observer.

I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I think
he will end up a long way back not third. There are a few
riders going into the race who have good teams and are
extremely motivated and saw that Armstrong could be beaten
last year. I think Ullrich could do it, I'm not convinced
Mayo will get through all the 3 weeks. Hamilton is a bit of
a wildcard, I admire Roche for sticking his neck out.

As you said, Roche has faults, but at least he used to race
to win the whole season which is one reason I hesitate to
put LA up in the same class with Merckx and Coppi although I
respect his comeback after cancer. Although if he makes six
TdFs I think he will be one of the greats. Let's not forget
that all the guys you mentioned have faults.
 
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:22:36 +0200, David Off <[email protected]>
wrote:

>cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only
>going to get wider."

...much like Roche's frame nowadays.
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,
> is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be
> flipping through his autobiography last night [The Agony
> and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH
:)]
> and he really does have interesting and accurate
> observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.
>
> "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> >
Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or
lose with his observations.

My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for lance
because he has everything to prove and he will be under
incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or those who
have never won. The pressure will be immense and no one is
superhuman, not even lance. I think i said before that if he
does begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
it will be in the third week. Let's face it, winning five
takes a toll on you no matter what. Not just DOING five, but
winning five. Ullrich's year off probably added two years to
his career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance is
really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
1995. It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years. And
there's not just ullrich, but other younger guys putting on
the pressure like Mayo and others who want the big stage
wins in the mountains. So if that pressure doesn't get to
him, I will be truly astonished and ask for his secret in
dealing with stress!
 
"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/385-
> 8759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
> six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
> Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
> Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
> halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
> BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
> tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
> rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
> Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
> not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

I have been keeping this to myself, but I also think all of
the evidence points to an Ullrich win. I don't know how
Lance will react to losing, so Tyler has ever chance to beat
Lance. Actually, Tyler is having such a strong season while
apparently not yet at his peak and it does seem to look like
Tyler could actally pull it off if nothing goes wrong for
him. He did beat Lance and Ullrich in last year's final ITT
(only a confessed EPO user beat Tyler that day and he may in
fact inherit the win rertroactively). The thing is that the
parcours is so unique this year it really is not so easy to
pick a favorite. This year, tactics will make more
difference than any year since...probably 1988 (although
there were not a lot of strong contenders to exploit that
edition's unique course).

Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he
realized that last year and planned his whole Tour around
the assumption that Lance is not a shoo-in then Tyler is
probably the best equipped after Ullrich. The thing about
Ullrich is that we really do not know how he will react to
*finally* being expected to win and being prepared
physically. Ullrich's best year of fitness against Lance
was in 2001, but that was not the same rider that ripped up
the cols and TTs in 1996, '97 or even '98. If Jan can
acheive that level of fitness and not choke from placing
second so many times (I do beleive many riders get psched
out by their previous results). The bottom line is that a
well prepared Ullrich or Hamilton have an even chance to
beat Armstrong, except that LA has the psychological
advantage and that may be what allows him to race to his
record breaking 6th win. He fooled them last year and
nobody reacted too stronly to all of his BS excuses that
were really all about making it seem foolish to attack him.
It was cool watching him suffer like that last year and he
really did earn that win. It all boils down this year to
the unique course and how the other contenders react to his
weakening form. Unless there is some disaster, this will be
one of the most competitive Tours since '89 (3 previous
winners all battling for the win to the end). I almost wish
that the last day was an ITT again, AMO blew it on that.
They knew in plenty of time that this would be a hard
faught Tour and the last days spring stage in not as
important to tradition as having an exciting GC battle.

> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the
> Dauphine Libere and looked as though he was struggling at
> crucial times.

That can cut both ways.

>In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to
>the sort of form that won him the race seven years ago.

Lance has still won far more races this year but the timing
of Ullrich's wins compared to his previous attempts to
dethrone LA are what is most relavant. I actually think LA
will be stronger in the prolog this year but I think Ullrich
is a lot less likely to lose form before the end. The only
Tour that Ullrich lost form in was the year he won.
Hmm...well, that was really a different situtation.

> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
> his runner-up spot 12 months ago.

Let's hope so.

> "People have been talking about him carrying too much
> weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but
> that's nonsense," said Roche.

Totally.

> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
> Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
> exactly the right
time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
> champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
> and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
> previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
> final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
> his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
> Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."

I agree with Stephen. Lance would have you believe that all
of those were mistakes that are not likely to be repeated
(isolated bad luck or something). He is not much stronger
than his rivals or maybe slightly weaker but he is mentally
the toughest racer I have ever seen. He knows how and when
to suffer. If he does take a 6th Tour (and is not exposed as
a cheat) he will be remembered as the hardest working man of
his generation. I think that also explains his popularity.
If only he had a little more tact, he might not have as many
people waiting for him to fall. He was not a gracious winner
last year (although he was in the previous 4 wins) and I
hate to think about his reaction to actually losing. I even
thought he might retire after last year, because his fear of
losing is so intense. I guess his ego is still as strong as
ever though and so now he will try to take the out right
record for Tour wins at an age when Hinault (one of he best
all rounders after Eddy) retired.
 
"Richard Longwood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France
> Foiled By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
> Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM
>
> PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004
> Tour de France, Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in
> clear and eternal glory. Another victory and he would
> create a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler
> Hamilton was coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began
> to look weary. There would be no six-time Tour de France
> champion.

I think if Lance does lose, he may fail to get the yellow
jersey entirely.

> Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan
> Bruyneel, Lance Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble.
> "When I looked back and saw
the
> way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us, yeah, I thought we
> were going to get beat," Bruyneel said.
>
> Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance
> Armstrong in his sights, and 7 stages from the last stage,
> Urs Freuler's stallion went by the five time Tour de
> France champion en route to a commanding victory before a
crowd
> of millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in
> France. For the first time in five years, Lance Armstrong
> didn't win.
>
> Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques
> Michaud, and
René
> Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed emotions after last
> year's situation when Tyler emerged from obscurity last
> July to become Massachusetts' favorite son and an
> international celebrity.
>
> As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out,
> Freuler got on
Bruyneel'
> s radio frequency and told him, "Better luck next time
> jackass! You were
a
> fool for letting your pretty boy do all those OLN segments
> and all those other car commercials." It surprised
> Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in an agitated state.

Funny...and somehow realistic?

> "He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are
> you going to
do?
> That's bike racing.'"
>
> Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race
> and completing his personal goal. Besides winning 15
> stages of the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages
of
> the Tour de France, 5 stages of the Tour de Romandie, 9
> stages of the Tour de Suisse, Urs Freuler also took 10
> World Track titles. After not making the podium last year
> at the Tour de France, the Swiss native not only won this
> year's Tour de France but also did it without Tyler using
> any performance enhancing drugs. Still, he felt for those
> who yearned for a Lance victory.
>
> "What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad
> worked and it was an emotional thing. It's sad because
> Lance was great for racing."
>
> Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and
> overjoyed. Her feelings were confusing. "This means so
> much to me," she said.
>
> "This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton,
> Tyler's father]
is
> the one who decided that we breed and produce this year's
> Tour de France champion.

Tyler got in to cycling the same way Greg Lemond did, while
using it to train for competitive skiing.

>But we do feel bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's
>bittersweet. We were rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We
>love Lance. I think Lance has
done
> more for the racing community and people who love
> cycling."
>
> Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged
> badly by David Walsh and Pierre Ballester at the end of a
> glorious ride through France. Bruyneel, the only Belgian
> coach Lance has ever known, asked far too much
of
> him in the most grueling race Lance will ever run.
>
> Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the
> top of Plateau de Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the
> first feed zone and two minutes back at the base of the
> last climb while always battling just to stay in
the
> peloton. His pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he
> looked more angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler
> Hamilton crossed the finish
line
> to win the stage.
>
> "We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel
> said minutes later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race
> without getting that stabilized.

OMG...I guess people are really starting to think that...

> I knew when we didn't win Plateau de Beille that we were
> in a little trouble. He just wasn't stabilized the way he
> was in the previous two stages."
>
> After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and
> Oscar Sevilla while chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo,
> Lance Armstrong took the early lead on the L'Alpe d'Huez
> stage by 10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had
him
> kick for home early -- too early -- and opened a 20
> second lead 6
kilometers
> from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich were
> done, but Tyler Hamilton proved to have the biggest
> schlong of the day and won big time.
>
> The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably
> to the finish in Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the
> heat down the backstretch, and although Tyler was far
> back, Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton was on
> cruise control, and Lance wasn't home free.
>
> "At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we
> had a good
shot,"
> Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and saw Tyler
> Hamilton smoking a cigarette and thought we might be in
> trouble."
>
> He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead
> for good, and Lance had nothing left to throw at him.
> Tyler Hamilton lost only 12
seconds
> in the descent into the Le Grand Bornand finish while
> Lance Armstrong rode at 60 kilometers per hour in the last
> 2 kilometers, way too fast to
recover
> for the next day.
>
> Millions of American people were seriously bummed out
> because Lance got
beat
> in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask if Lance would come
> to California to appear on his show. President Bush issued
> an open invitation for Lance to visit the Rose Garden. One
> woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if she could have a nude
> photo shoot taken with Lance. All were turned down.
>
> "It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said
> Friday. "It's just kind of snowballed. It seems like the
> story is flowing across the country and everyone has
> kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
> favorite Texan."

Let's see how he handles losing before we write the final
chapter of "The Lance Chronicles".

> "I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so
> many bad things going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters
> of Boulder said when he came to the Paris finish of the
> Tour de France. "People get tired of looking at
the
> bad things on the front page and they skip to the sports
> page. They get
to
> read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas
> cyclist who's doing swell."
>
> "It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully
> it continues."

That is probably true.

> Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.
>
> Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the
> pain with class and grace. While Freuler was being
> interviewed after the race, Bruyneel congratulated him
> with a crushing Belgian handshake.
>
> "Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make
> big history
here.
> We didn't do it. We've had a great year. I'm not going to
> put my head down. I'm proud of the whole team and
> everybody needs to be happy. They don't need to be sad."
>
> Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and
> that wouldn't change Monday morning.

I do think that Bruyneel will show himself as the (USPS)
man with the most class...when they have to handle a loss
in the Tour.

>
>
>
>
> "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
> 05.noos.net...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/38-
> > 58759.stm
> >
> > Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
> > six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
> > Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
> > Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich
> > will halt the Texan's historic bid.
> >
> > "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche
> > told BBC Sport.
> >
> > "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
> > tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the
> > same rider physically anymore."
> >
> > He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich
> > first, Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third."
> > Armstrong does not appear to be at his best going
> > into the 2004 race.
> >
> > He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the
> > Dauphine Libere and looked as though he was struggling
> > at crucial times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in
> > good shape, close to the sort of form that won him the
> > race seven years ago.
> >
> > And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
> > his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
> > talking about him carrying too much weight and not
> > looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> > nonsense," said Roche.
> >
> > "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
> > Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form
> > at exactly the right
> time."
> >
> > Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
> >
> > Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
> > champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
> > and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
> > previous seasons.
> >
> > He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on
> > the final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly
> > attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started
> > to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to
> > get wider."
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,

I guess you have to say that after Stephen's (one) lapse in
judgement.

>is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be
>flipping through his autobiography last night [The Agony
>and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH
:)]
> and he really does have interesting and accurate
> observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.

Stephen was one of the most talented of his generation and
if his knee had not caused so many troughs in his career he
likely would have a palmares somewhere between Lemond's and
Hinault's. When he was on form, he could take any mountain
stage, ITT or hilly classic. The thing is I don't think Greg
and Stephen were ever on form at the same time. Greg spent
more time "in the (winning) zone" but I don't know that he
was stronger. I am sure he is one of the better analysts
because of how much of his career he spent "on the mend" and
watching the big events from the sidelines.

> "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> >
> >
> > "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
> > 05.noos.net...
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/-
> > > 3858759.stm
> [snip]
 
"Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:_0gFc.15641>
> My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for
> lance because he has everything to prove and he will be
> under incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or
> those who have never won. The pressure will be immense
and
> no one is superhuman, not even lance. I think i said
> before that if he
does
> begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
> it will be
in
> the third week. Let's face it, winning five takes a toll
> on you no matter what. Not just DOING five, but winning
> five. Ullrich's year off probably added two years to his
> career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance
is
> really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
> 1995. It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years.
> And there's not just ullrich, but other younger guys
> putting on the pressure like Mayo and others who want
the
> big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure
> doesn't get to him, I will be truly astonished and ask for
> his secret in dealing with stress!
>
Agree, just hope nobody makes a fool out of LA, as Riis did
of Indurain in the 96 tour. -tom
 
"Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:71-
> [email protected]...
> > I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his
> > faults, is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened
> > to be flipping through his autobiography last night [The
> > Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH
> :)]
> > and he really does have interesting and accurate
> > observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.
> >
> > "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> > >
> Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or
> lose with his observations.
>
> My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for
> lance because he has everything to prove and he will be
> under incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or
> those who have never won. The pressure will be immense
and
> no one is superhuman, not even lance.

The pressure works in Lance's favor for as long as he has
the form to compete.

I think i said before that if he does
> begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
> it will be
in
> the third week.

I think I could handle the first 2 weeks of this Tour, so
that is not really a prediction that requires a lot of
thought...

Let's face it, winning five takes a toll on you no matter
> what. Not just DOING five, but winning five.

I think it is a case of declining VO2 max that comes with
age and declining HGH and testosterone levels. The pressure
works for him until *that* starts to take its toll. The fact
that it is considered doping and not detectable (in most
cases) to use HRT means that a 6th win in some minds will be
more evidence that Lance dopes.

>Ullrich's year off probably added two years to his career.

Hmm...

>BUt I began to notice last year that lance is really
>starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995.
>It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years.

Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping) even
though he could do it without testing positive.

And there's not just ullrich, but
> other younger guys putting on the pressure like Mayo and
> others who want
the
> big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure
> doesn't get to him, I will be truly astonished and ask for
> his secret in dealing with stress!

He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He
hates to "lose" and has an American attitude towards bike
racing. There is only one winner and the rest are
"losers". His ego issues turn that in to a competitive
advantage. I have no idea what his Oedipus complex does
for his racing though so I will leave that to others to
figure out. Maybe having his mom and the others around
keep him keeps him highly motivated to not be a "loser"
that he fears himself to be?
 
"Didier A. Depireux" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Off <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche.
> > Armstrong is the race
>
> Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat
> tube slope?
Something
> like 55 degs or something? I looked for that pictures of
> that bike at some point but couldn't find it.
>
> Didier

No, you are thinking of Steve Bauer's bikes (from the
early 90s IIRC. I only saw the road version with the
radical seat tube angle). Roche only ever raced with team
issue bikes AFAIK.

> --
> Didier A Depireux [email protected]
> [email protected] 20 Penn Str - S218E
> http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy
> and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab) University
> of Maryland -1273 (off) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax:
> 1-410-706-2512
 
> I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I
> think he will end up a long way back not third.

I tend to agree with this. If he doesn't win it I think
he'll be way back or even drop before the finish. But I'm
also anticipating a finish similar to TDS. One second never
looked so huge. I'm getting a woody.
 
"Chris" <[email protected]> writes:

> Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he
> realized that last year and planned his whole Tour around
> the assumption that Lance is not a shoo-in then Tyler is
> probably the best equipped after Ullrich.

Whoah there... Tyler isn't that great a climber and often
fades on the final climb. I think of the two, Ullrich is
usually better up the hills, or at least doesn't lose so
much on the final portions if he's feeling well.

--
David N. Welton Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache
Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Photos:
http://www.dedasys.com/photos/
 
"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> >BUt I began to notice last year that lance is really
> >starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
> >1995. It's
like
> > winning each tour ages you in dog years.
>
> Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping)
> even though he
could
> do it without testing positive.
>
Explain how taking testosterone and/or hGH amounts to the
fountain of youth.
 
Chris wrote:

> He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He
> hates to "lose"

plus, if he doens't get yellow there are none of those cute
podium babes to slip it to after the tour is over.
Motivation enough.
 

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