Roche Says Lance is Finished



D

David Off

Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm

Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six Tours de
France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race
favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan
Ullrich will halt the Texan's historic bid.

"I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told BBC Sport.

"He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and tactically more
astute, but I don't believe he's the same rider physically anymore."

He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler Hamilton
second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not appear to be at his best
going into the 2004 race.

He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine Libere and
looked as though he was struggling at crucial times. In contrast,
Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to the sort of form that won
him the race seven years ago.

And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his runner-up
spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking about him carrying too
much weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
nonsense," said Roche.

"He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour of
Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at exactly the right time."

Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time champions
Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain - he
lacked the invincibility of previous seasons.

He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the final ascent
on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the
cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
wider."
 
Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France Foiled
By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM

PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004 Tour de France,
Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in clear and eternal glory. Another
victory and he would create a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler
Hamilton was coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began to look weary.
There would be no six-time Tour de France champion.

Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan Bruyneel, Lance
Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble. "When I looked back and saw the
way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us, yeah, I thought we were going to get
beat," Bruyneel said.

Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance Armstrong in his sights,
and 7 stages from the last stage, Urs Freuler's stallion went by the five
time Tour de France champion en route to a commanding victory before a crowd
of millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in France. For the
first time in five years, Lance Armstrong didn't win.

Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques Michaud, and René
Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed emotions after last year's situation
when Tyler emerged from obscurity last July to become Massachusetts'
favorite son and an international celebrity.

As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out, Freuler got on Bruyneel'
s radio frequency and told him, "Better luck next time jackass! You were a
fool for letting your pretty boy do all those OLN segments and all those
other car commercials." It surprised Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in an
agitated state.

"He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are you going to do?
That's bike racing.'"

Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race and completing his
personal goal. Besides winning 15 stages of the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages of
the Tour de France, 5 stages of the Tour de Romandie, 9 stages of the Tour
de Suisse, Urs Freuler also took 10 World Track titles. After not making
the podium last year at the Tour de France, the Swiss native not only won
this year's Tour de France but also did it without Tyler using any
performance enhancing drugs. Still, he felt for those who yearned for a
Lance victory.

"What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad worked and it was
an emotional thing. It's sad because Lance was great for racing."

Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and overjoyed. Her
feelings were confusing. "This means so much to me," she said.

"This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton, Tyler's father] is
the one who decided that we breed and produce this year's Tour de France
champion. But we do feel bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's bittersweet. We
were rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We love Lance. I think Lance has done
more for the racing community and people who love cycling."

Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged badly by David Walsh
and Pierre Ballester at the end of a glorious ride through France.
Bruyneel, the only Belgian coach Lance has ever known, asked far too much of
him in the most grueling race Lance will ever run.

Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the top of Plateau de
Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the first feed zone and two minutes
back at the base of the last climb while always battling just to stay in the
peloton. His pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he looked more
angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler Hamilton crossed the finish line
to win the stage.

"We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel said minutes
later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race without getting that stabilized.
I knew when we didn't win Plateau de Beille that we were in a little
trouble. He just wasn't stabilized the way he was in the previous two
stages."

After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and Oscar Sevilla while
chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo, Lance Armstrong took the early lead on
the L'Alpe d'Huez stage by 10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had him
kick for home early -- too early -- and opened a 20 second lead 6 kilometers
from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich were done, but Tyler
Hamilton proved to have the biggest schlong of the day and won big time.

The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably to the finish in
Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the heat down the backstretch, and
although Tyler was far back, Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton
was on cruise control, and Lance wasn't home free.

"At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we had a good shot,"
Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and saw Tyler Hamilton smoking a
cigarette and thought we might be in trouble."

He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead for good, and
Lance had nothing left to throw at him. Tyler Hamilton lost only 12 seconds
in the descent into the Le Grand Bornand finish while Lance Armstrong rode
at 60 kilometers per hour in the last 2 kilometers, way too fast to recover
for the next day.

Millions of American people were seriously bummed out because Lance got beat
in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask if Lance would come to California to
appear on his show. President Bush issued an open invitation for Lance to
visit the Rose Garden. One woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if she could
have a nude photo shoot taken with Lance. All were turned down.

"It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said Friday. "It's just
kind of snowballed. It seems like the story is flowing across the country
and everyone has kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
favorite Texan."

"I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so many bad things
going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters of Boulder said when he came to
the Paris finish of the Tour de France. "People get tired of looking at the
bad things on the front page and they skip to the sports page. They get to
read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas cyclist who's doing
swell."

"It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully it continues."

Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.

Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the pain with class
and grace. While Freuler was being interviewed after the race, Bruyneel
congratulated him with a crushing Belgian handshake.

"Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make big history here.
We didn't do it. We've had a great year. I'm not going to put my head
down. I'm proud of the whole team and everybody needs to be happy. They
don't need to be sad."

Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and that wouldn't
change Monday morning.






"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six Tours de
> France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race
> favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan
> Ullrich will halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and tactically more
> astute, but I don't believe he's the same rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler Hamilton
> second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not appear to be at his best
> going into the 2004 race.
>
> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine Libere and
> looked as though he was struggling at crucial times. In contrast,
> Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to the sort of form that won
> him the race seven years ago.
>
> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his runner-up
> spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking about him carrying too
> much weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> nonsense," said Roche.
>
> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour of
> Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at exactly the right

time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time champions
> Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain - he
> lacked the invincibility of previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the final ascent
> on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the
> cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
> wider."
 
Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!


"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six Tours de
> France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race
> favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan
> Ullrich will halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and tactically more
> astute, but I don't believe he's the same rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler Hamilton
> second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not appear to be at his best
> going into the 2004 race.
>
> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine Libere and
> looked as though he was struggling at crucial times. In contrast,
> Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to the sort of form that won
> him the race seven years ago.
>
> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his runner-up
> spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking about him carrying too
> much weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> nonsense," said Roche.
>
> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour of
> Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at exactly the right

time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time champions
> Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain - he
> lacked the invincibility of previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the final ascent
> on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the
> cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
> wider."
>
 
I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is a fairly
perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping through his
autobiography last night [The Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH :)]
and he really does have interesting and accurate observations as to then
current riders. We'll soon know.

"robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
>
>
> "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm

[snip]
 
B. Lafferty wrote:

> I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is a fairly
> perceptive race observer.


I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I think he will end
up a long way back not third. There are a few riders going into the race
who have good teams and are extremely motivated and saw that Armstrong
could be beaten last year. I think Ullrich could do it, I'm not
convinced Mayo will get through all the 3 weeks. Hamilton is a bit of a
wildcard, I admire Roche for sticking his neck out.

As you said, Roche has faults, but at least he used to race to win the
whole season which is one reason I hesitate to put LA up in the same
class with Merckx and Coppi although I respect his comeback after
cancer. Although if he makes six TdFs I think he will be one of the
greats. Let's not forget that all the guys you mentioned have faults.
 
David Off <[email protected]> wrote:

> France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race


Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat tube slope? Something
like 55 degs or something? I looked for that pictures of that bike at some
point but couldn't find it.

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected]
20 Penn Str - S218E http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm
Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab)
University of Maryland -1273 (off)
Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:22:36 +0200, David Off <[email protected]>
wrote:

>cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
>wider."


....much like Roche's frame nowadays.
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is a fairly
> perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping through his
> autobiography last night [The Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH

:)]
> and he really does have interesting and accurate observations as to then
> current riders. We'll soon know.
>
> "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> >

Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or lose with his
observations.

My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for lance because he has
everything to prove and he will be under incredible pressure. Even more so
than Ullrich, or those who have never won. The pressure will be immense and
no one is superhuman, not even lance. I think i said before that if he does
begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning- it will be in
the third week. Let's face it, winning five takes a toll on you no matter
what. Not just DOING five, but winning five. Ullrich's year off probably
added two years to his career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance is
really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995. It's like
winning each tour ages you in dog years. And there's not just ullrich, but
other younger guys putting on the pressure like Mayo and others who want the
big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure doesn't get to him, I
will be truly astonished and ask for his secret in dealing with stress!
 
"David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm
>
> Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six Tours de
> France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race
> favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan
> Ullrich will halt the Texan's historic bid.
>
> "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told BBC Sport.
>
> "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and tactically more
> astute, but I don't believe he's the same rider physically anymore."
>
> He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler Hamilton
> second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not appear to be at his best
> going into the 2004 race.


I have been keeping this to myself, but I also think all of the evidence
points to an Ullrich win. I don't know how Lance will react to losing, so
Tyler has ever chance to beat Lance. Actually, Tyler is having such a strong
season while apparently not yet at his peak and it does seem to look like
Tyler could actally pull it off if nothing goes wrong for him. He did beat
Lance and Ullrich in last year's final ITT (only a confessed EPO user beat
Tyler that day and he may in fact inherit the win rertroactively). The thing
is that the parcours is so unique this year it really is not so easy to pick
a favorite. This year, tactics will make more difference than any year
since...probably 1988 (although there were not a lot of strong contenders to
exploit that edition's unique course).

Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he realized that last
year and planned his whole Tour around the assumption that Lance is not a
shoo-in then Tyler is probably the best equipped after Ullrich. The thing
about Ullrich is that we really do not know how he will react to *finally*
being expected to win and being prepared physically. Ullrich's best year of
fitness against Lance was in 2001, but that was not the same rider that
ripped up the cols and TTs in 1996, '97 or even '98. If Jan can acheive that
level of fitness and not choke from placing second so many times (I do
beleive many riders get psched out by their previous results). The bottom
line is that a well prepared Ullrich or Hamilton have an even chance to beat
Armstrong, except that LA has the psychological advantage and that may be
what allows him to race to his record breaking 6th win. He fooled them last
year and nobody reacted too stronly to all of his BS excuses that were
really all about making it seem foolish to attack him. It was cool watching
him suffer like that last year and he really did earn that win. It all boils
down this year to the unique course and how the other contenders react to
his weakening form. Unless there is some disaster, this will be one of the
most competitive Tours since '89 (3 previous winners all battling for the
win to the end). I almost wish that the last day was an ITT again, AMO blew
it on that. They knew in plenty of time that this would be a hard faught
Tour and the last days spring stage in not as important to tradition as
having an exciting GC battle.


> He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine Libere and
> looked as though he was struggling at crucial times.


That can cut both ways.

>In contrast,
> Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to the sort of form that won
> him the race seven years ago.


Lance has still won far more races this year but the timing of Ullrich's
wins compared to his previous attempts to dethrone LA are what is most
relavant. I actually think LA will be stronger in the prolog this year but I
think Ullrich is a lot less likely to lose form before the end. The only
Tour that Ullrich lost form in was the year he won. Hmm...well, that was
really a different situtation.

> And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his runner-up
> spot 12 months ago.


Let's hope so.

> "People have been talking about him carrying too
> much weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> nonsense," said Roche.


Totally.


> "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour of
> Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at exactly the right

time."
>
> Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
>
> Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time champions
> Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain - he
> lacked the invincibility of previous seasons.
>
> He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the final ascent
> on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the
> cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
> wider."


I agree with Stephen. Lance would have you believe that all of those were
mistakes that are not likely to be repeated (isolated bad luck or
something). He is not much stronger than his rivals or maybe slightly weaker
but he is mentally the toughest racer I have ever seen. He knows how and
when to suffer. If he does take a 6th Tour (and is not exposed as a cheat)
he will be remembered as the hardest working man of his generation. I think
that also explains his popularity. If only he had a little more tact, he
might not have as many people waiting for him to fall. He was not a gracious
winner last year (although he was in the previous 4 wins) and I hate to
think about his reaction to actually losing. I even thought he might retire
after last year, because his fear of losing is so intense. I guess his ego
is still as strong as ever though and so now he will try to take the out
right record for Tour wins at an age when Hinault (one of he best all
rounders after Eddy) retired.
 
"Richard Longwood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France Foiled
> By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
> Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM
>
> PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004 Tour de France,
> Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in clear and eternal glory. Another
> victory and he would create a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler
> Hamilton was coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began to look weary.
> There would be no six-time Tour de France champion.


I think if Lance does lose, he may fail to get the yellow jersey entirely.


> Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan Bruyneel, Lance
> Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble. "When I looked back and saw

the
> way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us, yeah, I thought we were going to get
> beat," Bruyneel said.
>
> Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance Armstrong in his sights,
> and 7 stages from the last stage, Urs Freuler's stallion went by the five
> time Tour de France champion en route to a commanding victory before a

crowd
> of millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in France. For the
> first time in five years, Lance Armstrong didn't win.
>
> Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques Michaud, and

René
> Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed emotions after last year's situation
> when Tyler emerged from obscurity last July to become Massachusetts'
> favorite son and an international celebrity.
>
> As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out, Freuler got on

Bruyneel'
> s radio frequency and told him, "Better luck next time jackass! You were

a
> fool for letting your pretty boy do all those OLN segments and all those
> other car commercials." It surprised Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in an
> agitated state.


Funny...and somehow realistic?

> "He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are you going to

do?
> That's bike racing.'"
>
> Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race and completing his
> personal goal. Besides winning 15 stages of the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages

of
> the Tour de France, 5 stages of the Tour de Romandie, 9 stages of the Tour
> de Suisse, Urs Freuler also took 10 World Track titles. After not making
> the podium last year at the Tour de France, the Swiss native not only won
> this year's Tour de France but also did it without Tyler using any
> performance enhancing drugs. Still, he felt for those who yearned for a
> Lance victory.
>
> "What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad worked and it was
> an emotional thing. It's sad because Lance was great for racing."
>
> Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and overjoyed. Her
> feelings were confusing. "This means so much to me," she said.
>
> "This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton, Tyler's father]

is
> the one who decided that we breed and produce this year's Tour de France
> champion.


Tyler got in to cycling the same way Greg Lemond did, while using it to
train for competitive skiing.

>But we do feel bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's bittersweet. We
> were rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We love Lance. I think Lance has

done
> more for the racing community and people who love cycling."
>
> Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged badly by David Walsh
> and Pierre Ballester at the end of a glorious ride through France.
> Bruyneel, the only Belgian coach Lance has ever known, asked far too much

of
> him in the most grueling race Lance will ever run.
>
> Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the top of Plateau de
> Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the first feed zone and two minutes
> back at the base of the last climb while always battling just to stay in

the
> peloton. His pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he looked more
> angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler Hamilton crossed the finish

line
> to win the stage.
>
> "We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel said minutes
> later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race without getting that stabilized.


OMG...I guess people are really starting to think that...

> I knew when we didn't win Plateau de Beille that we were in a little
> trouble. He just wasn't stabilized the way he was in the previous two
> stages."
>
> After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and Oscar Sevilla while
> chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo, Lance Armstrong took the early lead on
> the L'Alpe d'Huez stage by 10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had

him
> kick for home early -- too early -- and opened a 20 second lead 6

kilometers
> from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich were done, but Tyler
> Hamilton proved to have the biggest schlong of the day and won big time.
>
> The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably to the finish in
> Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the heat down the backstretch, and
> although Tyler was far back, Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton
> was on cruise control, and Lance wasn't home free.
>
> "At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we had a good

shot,"
> Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and saw Tyler Hamilton smoking a
> cigarette and thought we might be in trouble."
>
> He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead for good, and
> Lance had nothing left to throw at him. Tyler Hamilton lost only 12

seconds
> in the descent into the Le Grand Bornand finish while Lance Armstrong rode
> at 60 kilometers per hour in the last 2 kilometers, way too fast to

recover
> for the next day.
>
> Millions of American people were seriously bummed out because Lance got

beat
> in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask if Lance would come to California to
> appear on his show. President Bush issued an open invitation for Lance to
> visit the Rose Garden. One woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if she could
> have a nude photo shoot taken with Lance. All were turned down.
>
> "It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said Friday. "It's just
> kind of snowballed. It seems like the story is flowing across the country
> and everyone has kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
> favorite Texan."


Let's see how he handles losing before we write the final chapter of "The
Lance Chronicles".

> "I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so many bad things
> going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters of Boulder said when he came to
> the Paris finish of the Tour de France. "People get tired of looking at

the
> bad things on the front page and they skip to the sports page. They get

to
> read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas cyclist who's doing
> swell."
>
> "It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully it continues."


That is probably true.

> Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.
>
> Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the pain with class
> and grace. While Freuler was being interviewed after the race, Bruyneel
> congratulated him with a crushing Belgian handshake.
>
> "Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make big history

here.
> We didn't do it. We've had a great year. I'm not going to put my head
> down. I'm proud of the whole team and everybody needs to be happy. They
> don't need to be sad."
>
> Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and that wouldn't
> change Monday morning.


I do think that Bruyneel will show himself as the (USPS) man with the most
class...when they have to handle a loss in the Tour.

>
>
>
>
> "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm
> >
> > Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six Tours de
> > France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race
> > favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan
> > Ullrich will halt the Texan's historic bid.
> >
> > "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told BBC Sport.
> >
> > "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and tactically more
> > astute, but I don't believe he's the same rider physically anymore."
> >
> > He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler Hamilton
> > second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not appear to be at his best
> > going into the 2004 race.
> >
> > He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine Libere and
> > looked as though he was struggling at crucial times. In contrast,
> > Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to the sort of form that won
> > him the race seven years ago.
> >
> > And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his runner-up
> > spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking about him carrying too
> > much weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
> > nonsense," said Roche.
> >
> > "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour of
> > Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at exactly the right

> time."
> >
> > Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.
> >
> > Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time champions
> > Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain - he
> > lacked the invincibility of previous seasons.
> >
> > He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the final ascent
> > on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the
> > cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get
> > wider."

>
>
 
"Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:_0gFc.15641>
> My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for lance because he has
> everything to prove and he will be under incredible pressure. Even more so
> than Ullrich, or those who have never won. The pressure will be immense

and
> no one is superhuman, not even lance. I think i said before that if he

does
> begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning- it will be

in
> the third week. Let's face it, winning five takes a toll on you no matter
> what. Not just DOING five, but winning five. Ullrich's year off probably
> added two years to his career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance

is
> really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995. It's like
> winning each tour ages you in dog years. And there's not just ullrich, but
> other younger guys putting on the pressure like Mayo and others who want

the
> big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure doesn't get to him, I
> will be truly astonished and ask for his secret in dealing with stress!
>

Agree,
just hope nobody makes a fool out of LA, as Riis did of Indurain in the 96
tour.
-tom
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree it's time to race, but Roche,
>for all his faults,


I guess you have to say that after Stephen's (one) lapse in judgement.

>is a fairly
> perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping through his
> autobiography last night [The Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH

:)]
> and he really does have interesting and accurate observations as to then
> current riders. We'll soon know.


Stephen was one of the most talented of his generation and if his knee had
not caused so many troughs in his career he likely would have a palmares
somewhere between Lemond's and Hinault's. When he was on form, he could take
any mountain stage, ITT or hilly classic. The thing is I don't think Greg
and Stephen were ever on form at the same time. Greg spent more time "in the
(winning) zone" but I don't know that he was stronger. I am sure he is one
of the better analysts because of how much of his career he spent "on the
mend" and watching the big events from the sidelines.

> "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> >
> >
> > "David Off" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/3858759.stm

> [snip]
>
>
 
"Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is a fairly
> > perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping through his
> > autobiography last night [The Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH

> :)]
> > and he really does have interesting and accurate observations as to then
> > current riders. We'll soon know.
> >
> > "robet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!
> > >

> Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or lose with his
> observations.
>
> My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for lance because he has
> everything to prove and he will be under incredible pressure. Even more so
> than Ullrich, or those who have never won. The pressure will be immense

and
> no one is superhuman, not even lance.


The pressure works in Lance's favor for as long as he has the form to
compete.

I think i said before that if he does
> begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning- it will be

in
> the third week.


I think I could handle the first 2 weeks of this Tour, so that is not really
a prediction that requires a lot of thought...

Let's face it, winning five takes a toll on you no matter
> what. Not just DOING five, but winning five.


I think it is a case of declining VO2 max that comes with age and declining
HGH and testosterone levels. The pressure works for him until *that* starts
to take its toll. The fact that it is considered doping and not detectable
(in most cases) to use HRT means that a 6th win in some minds will be more
evidence that Lance dopes.

>Ullrich's year off probably
> added two years to his career.


Hmm...

>BUt I began to notice last year that lance is
> really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995. It's like
> winning each tour ages you in dog years.


Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping) even though he could
do it without testing positive.

And there's not just ullrich, but
> other younger guys putting on the pressure like Mayo and others who want

the
> big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure doesn't get to him, I
> will be truly astonished and ask for his secret in dealing with stress!


He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He hates to "lose"
and has an American attitude towards bike racing. There is only one winner
and the rest are "losers". His ego issues turn that in to a competitive
advantage. I have no idea what his Oedipus complex does for his racing
though so I will leave that to others to figure out. Maybe having his mom
and the others around keep him keeps him highly motivated to not be a
"loser" that he fears himself to be?
 
"Didier A. Depireux" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Off <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong is the race

>
> Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat tube slope?

Something
> like 55 degs or something? I looked for that pictures of that bike at some
> point but couldn't find it.
>
> Didier


No, you are thinking of Steve Bauer's bikes (from the early 90s IIRC. I only
saw the road version with the radical seat tube angle). Roche only ever
raced with team issue bikes AFAIK.

> --
> Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected]
> 20 Penn Str - S218E http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm
> Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab)
> University of Maryland -1273 (off)
> Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
> I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I think he will end
> up a long way back not third.



I tend to agree with this. If he doesn't win it I think he'll be way
back or even drop before the finish. But I'm also anticipating a
finish similar to TDS. One second never looked so huge. I'm getting a
woody.
 
"Chris" <[email protected]> writes:

> Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he realized
> that last year and planned his whole Tour around the assumption that
> Lance is not a shoo-in then Tyler is probably the best equipped
> after Ullrich.


Whoah there... Tyler isn't that great a climber and often fades on the
final climb. I think of the two, Ullrich is usually better up the
hills, or at least doesn't lose so much on the final portions if he's
feeling well.

--
David N. Welton
Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
Photos: http://www.dedasys.com/photos/
 
"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> >BUt I began to notice last year that lance is
> > really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995. It's

like
> > winning each tour ages you in dog years.

>
> Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping) even though he

could
> do it without testing positive.
>

Explain how taking testosterone and/or hGH amounts to the fountain of youth.
 
Chris wrote:

> He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He hates to "lose"


plus, if he doens't get yellow there are none of those cute podium babes
to slip it to after the tour is over. Motivation enough.
 

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