Roundabout technique

Looks to me like you're entitled to be where you are.
You've also got a company to complain to, should you so wish.
Maybe a copy of the Highway Code in the post?
No, too expensive.
OK, do what I do.
Forget it.
Move on.

--

Martin Bulmer

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

My commute to work takes me across a quite busy A66 via a roundabout.
I approach along a local road that opens up in to two lanes just
prior to the roundabout. There are no lane direction markings. The
inside lane usually has a tail back of traffic in it waiting to turn
left, the outside lane is usually empty so the few people (cars and
Moi) who want to go strait on in to a wide but single lane exit use
the outside lane. I have managed to avoid any conflict at this
junction for the past five years until last week when a 4X4 that was
going in the same direction as me but in the inside lane tried to cut
me off wound down his window, gave me a load of abuse which
questioned my parentage as well as my mental ability he then drove in
front of me accelerating and then breaking presumably to try and get
me to ride into the back of him.

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?
If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we
have to bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

I assume the 4X4 driver is one of the company directors, it was black
and flash. (The 4X4 that is)

Your feedback would be welcome.

Cliff

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

My commute to work takes me across a quite busy A66 via a roundabout. I
approach along a local road that opens up in to two lanes just prior to the
roundabout. There are no lane direction markings. The inside lane usually
has a tail back of traffic in it waiting to turn left, the outside lane is
usually empty so the few people (cars and Moi) who want to go strait on in
to a wide but single lane exit use the outside lane. I have managed to avoid
any conflict at this junction for the past five years until last week when a
4X4 that was going in the same direction as me but in the inside lane tried
to cut me off wound down his window, gave me a load of abuse which
questioned my parentage as well as my mental ability he then drove in front
of me accelerating and then breaking presumably to try and get me to ride
into the back of him.

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?
If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

Technically I believe that you should indeed join the queue, perhaps
using your narrow width to filter carefully. Your solution is however,
far more practical.

This does leave you on slightly dodgy ground WRT to the driver. You were
both in the wrong, and his behaviour was an issue, but you certainly
would have trouble claiming a perfect moral high ground.

Quoted message said:

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we have to
bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

In light of the branding however, you do need to get in touch. If you
can keep your voice calm and level, I would suggest phoning and asking
to speak to the managing director. If you have the number plate as well
this would be helpful. You may find yourself speaking to the driver, but
it's worth registering the complaint. Explain that in the unlikely event
of you witnessing the same behaviour from one of their liveried
vehicles, you will go directly to the police rather than the company. Be
polite. Thank him for listening. Nothing may come of it, but it may just
make them aware of their public image. The company I work for has
received complaints about drivers in the past (Not me... At least... I
assume they would have mentioned it!), and some action tends to be taken.

If you think that you'll have problems keeping your voice level, then a
letter is the only option. Make sure that they have a way of getting in
touch with you to apologize! ;-)

Good luck.

Jon

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

My commute to work takes me across a quite busy A66 via a roundabout. I
approach along a local road that opens up in to two lanes just prior to the
roundabout. There are no lane direction markings. The inside lane usually
has a tail back of traffic in it waiting to turn left, the outside lane is
usually empty so the few people (cars and Moi) who want to go strait on in
to a wide but single lane exit use the outside lane. I have managed to avoid
any conflict at this junction for the past five years until last week when a
4X4 that was going in the same direction as me but in the inside lane tried
to cut me off wound down his window, gave me a load of abuse which
questioned my parentage as well as my mental ability he then drove in front
of me accelerating and then breaking presumably to try and get me to ride
into the back of him.

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?
If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we have to
bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

I assume the 4X4 driver is one of the company directors, it was black and
flash. (The 4X4 that is)

Your feedback would be welcome.

The way you approach it is exactly the same as I would do and very
similar to the A10/M11 roundabout that I negotiate in the same way.

Meeting one idiot in five years is not bad going but if you want to let
of some steam either write to the Chief Exec noting that it was not
appropriate driving for a training organisation and that their
employee's behaviour would not seem to project the sort of image a
professional company like theirs would wish. Or phone up and ask for
the CEO/MD's office and explain the situation to the PA who answers.

Good luck

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Quoted message said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?
If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

Technically, yes. I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are
recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits you
intend to pass
before reaching your chosen one.

Having said that, on some roundabouts I take the outer lane. It's all a
matter of
assessing each roundabout and its approaching individually.

The driver was a bit naughty in his behaviour but hardly worth losing sleep
over.

Quoted message said:

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

I assume the 4X4 driver is one of the company directors, it was black and
flash. (The 4X4 that is)

You could try contacting the company and registering a complaint. I
wouldn't bother.

Cliff came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

acc. to highway code,[1] not necessarily. HC suggest it might be safer to
negotiate roundabouts keeping to the left all the way and signalling right
to go past other exits. It isn't a rule that you _must_ adhere to however
and practically it seems you take a reasonable course of action. However,
even if you were wrong, it shouldn't excuse the drivers behaviour at all.

Quoted message said:

If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

Join the queue, filter through. Get off and walk (acc. to HC)

Quoted message said:

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we have
to bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

Maybe a phone call, maybe a letter, maybe nothing, chalk it up to
experience.

I would probably send a letter. A 'driver training' company ought to expect
its liveried vehicles, whoever's driving them, to behave impeccably, which
shouldn't include hurling abuse at anyone.

[1] http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm#61

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay stuff 7996850544

in message <[email hidden]>, Cliff

(') said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

My commute to work takes me across a quite busy A66 via a roundabout. I
approach along a local road that opens up in to two lanes just prior to
the roundabout. There are no lane direction markings. The inside lane
usually has a tail back of traffic in it waiting to turn left, the
outside lane is usually empty so the few people (cars and Moi) who want
to go strait on in to a wide but single lane exit use the outside lane.
I have managed to avoid any conflict at this junction for the past five
years until last week when a 4X4 that was going in the same direction
as me but in the inside lane tried to cut me off wound down his window,
gave me a load of abuse which
questioned my parentage as well as my mental ability he then drove in
front of me accelerating and then breaking presumably to try and get me
to ride into the back of him.

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we
have to bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

Make a very strong complaint both to your local police and to the driver
and vehicle licensing agency, explicitly suggesting that the license of
these people to train drivers be withdrawn. Copy to the company.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
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In article said:

Quoted message said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?
If I am what are the alternatives, other than joining the queue in the
inside lane.

Technically, yes. I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are
recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits you
intend to pass
before reaching your chosen one.

No, it is suggested that they _might_ do that
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm#61 and #62

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

I don't think so.

If someone cuts you off like that then remember that you have the option
to go 540 degrees around the roundabout rather than 180, and come off
second time around when there isn't a Prize [censored] trying to kill you.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

I don't think so.

Definitely not wrong. There are two lanes going in? Unless tehy are
marked otherwise, you can use either lane to go straight on.

Quoted message said:

If someone cuts you off like that then remember that you have the option
to go 540 degrees around the roundabout rather than 180, and come off
second time around when there isn't a Prize [censored] trying to kill you.

A tip worth remembering. Always have an escape route.

...d

vernon said:

Quoted message said:

Technically, yes. I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are
recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits you
intend to pass
before reaching your chosen one.

A surer way to get killed has yet to be invented as well.

--
Arthur Clune

Cliff said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

I take roundabouts exactly like you do here. If I'm going straight on, get
in the same lane I would in a car, try and judge it so I don't have to stop
(and so get going again while merging into the traffic) and keep the speed
right up.

--
Arthur Clune

Cliff said:

What are your opinions on this situation.

My commute to work takes me across a quite busy A66 via a roundabout. I
approach along a local road that opens up in to two lanes just prior to the
roundabout. There are no lane direction markings. The inside lane usually
has a tail back of traffic in it waiting to turn left, the outside lane is
usually empty so the few people (cars and Moi) who want to go strait on in
to a wide but single lane exit use the outside lane. I have managed to avoid
any conflict at this junction for the past five years until last week when a
4X4 that was going in the same direction as me but in the inside lane tried
to cut me off wound down his window, gave me a load of abuse which
questioned my parentage as well as my mental ability he then drove in front
of me accelerating and then breaking presumably to try and get me to ride
into the back of him.

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

So long as you are making your intentions clear as you approach the
roundabout and are riding confidently, I think you are right. Think of
yourself as having the space of a motor vehicle around you, and where
you would position that space. Keep control of that area by careful road
positioning. Take the same route you would as if you were in a car,
remembering you are as much 'traffic' as anyone else.

Quoted message said:

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross we have to
bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

I assume the 4X4 driver is one of the company directors, it was black and
flash. (The 4X4 that is)

Your feedback would be welcome.

You could contact the company.
The driver would seem to have a stress problem that needs addressing.
You would need to keep very calm, perhaps a simple polite letter
pointing out that such behaviour does little for the image of a company
involved in Driver Training.
Of course you could just smile be content with the thought that he is
likely to end up with an early heart attack.

John B

vernon said:

I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits you
intend to pass before reaching your chosen one.

And some on-circle cycle lanes reinforce this behaviour. On my recent
training course this was singled out for a particularly savage kicking
during a discussion on When Cycle Lanes Can Be [censored].

Cyclecraft has some good illustrations of roundabout technique,
including showing when being on the left can make you invisible (as the
HC rule Alan linked to specifically bullets as something to be aware
of). If anyone not as happy as they'd like about busy roundabouts
hasn't got Cyclecraft yet, time to invest... http://tinyurl.com/cq3op

My rule of thumb is to work them just as I would in the car, a notable
exception being if it's taking ages for the queues to clear and there's
a footbridge I can take instead. While one part of me says I can do it
on the road and I should assert my right, there is another part saying
why not arrive 5 minutes earlier with less stress and breathing diesel
emissions to do?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Technically, yes. I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are
recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits you
intend to pass
before reaching your chosen one.

I tried doing that when I started out. DON'T DO IT, IT'S EXTREMELY
DANGEROUS!

Drivers seeing you in the left hand lane will assume you are taking the next
exit (even if in some cases that's a motorway!), or just assume you are
stationary and then drive straight across the front of you. It happened to
me and I couldn't stop shaking for quite a while.

Arthur Clune said:

I take roundabouts exactly like you do here. If I'm going straight on, get
in the same lane I would in a car, try and judge it so I don't have to stop
(and so get going again while merging into the traffic) and keep the speed
right up.

Likewise here.

I think keeping your speed up is particularly good advice (with the
caveat that you should be prepared to brake sharply when the inevitable
idiot joins the roundabout from the left without regard for your
priority...)

I would also add that you should stay slap bang in the middle of
whichever lane you are using, just to make it extra clear which lane
you are using, so no car driver is tempted to try passing.

Clear, unambiguous hand signals can also be very helpful in making your
intentions clear to other road users - it sounds trivial to say it, but
I'm amazed at some of the half-arsed attempts at signalling I see from
other cyclists (and somewhat less amazed when car drivers apparently
fail to notice their signals). But in any case, I find that most
drivers respond positively to a proper signal.

d.

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark Hewitt

(') said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Technically, yes. I seem to recall from somewhere that cyclists are
recommended to
use the inside lane and stich to that lane no matter how many exits
you intend to pass
before reaching your chosen one.

I tried doing that when I started out. DON'T DO IT, IT'S EXTREMELY
DANGEROUS!

Drivers seeing you in the left hand lane will assume you are taking the
next exit (even if in some cases that's a motorway!), or just assume
you are stationary and then drive straight across the front of you. It
happened to me and I couldn't stop shaking for quite a while.

I'd endorse this. Never, ever get into the left hand lane on a roundabout
unless you are taking the next available exit. If, by some accident, you
find yourself in that position, take the next available exit anyway and
then stop and work out what you did wrong.

Doing what the Highway Code advises (and it's only advice, it's /not/
mandatory) is suicide.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

in message said:

You could contact the company.
The driver would seem to have a stress problem that needs addressing.
You would need to keep very calm, perhaps a simple polite letter
pointing out that such behaviour does little for the image of a company
involved in Driver Training.
Of course you could just smile be content with the thought that he is
likely to end up with an early heart attack.

He's equally as likely to mow down another cyclist out of shear
aggression and self importance. That sort of road behaviour needs to be
stomped on.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Quoted message said:

I tried doing that when I started out. DON'T DO IT, IT'S EXTREMELY
DANGEROUS!

Drivers seeing you in the left hand lane will assume you are taking the next
exit (even if in some cases that's a motorway!), or just assume you are
stationary and then drive straight across the front of you. It happened to
me and I couldn't stop shaking for quite a while.

Too true... I have had folk nearly take me out on motorway junction
roundabouts. They seem to think I was going to go down the
sliproad....

As for a sure way of getting killed, the designers of the M54
junctions 1 and 2 in Wolverhampton must have been homicidal maniacs..
1 in particular is a brown trouser job at any time.. They are
terrifying in a car, on a bike - pray and ride furiously, very
furiously.

Richard Webb

Cliff said:

Am I wrong to negotiate the roundabout in this manner?

No. Perfectly correct IMV. You were just unlucky to have encountered a
fully paid-up grade A [censored]. You should of course expect this to
happen at any time and be ready with a plan B.

Quoted message said:

I would normally just ignore abuse from motorists, it is a cross
we have to bear but the 4X4 was emblazoned with the company name.

'Teesside Transport Training'.
HGV and Plant Equipment Driver Training..

I assume the 4X4 driver is one of the company directors, it was
black and flash. (The 4X4 that is)

Your feedback would be welcome.

Right, just supposing for a moment that your approach to the roundabout
was completely wrong. How would a highly skilled driver in a heavy,
powerful vehicle handle a situation where a vulnerable road user had
put himself in danger? Think about that for a moment and it is obvious
that whatever you may have done wrong was insignificant compared to the
outrageous behaviour of the 4x4 driver. He really is not fit to be
behind the wheel.

--
Dave...