Saddle Height and Power Output

[robd2]

Does saddle height affect power output? I can imagine comfort is the top priority here. Just curious as I’ve seen different opinions. For example, I just read an article that suggested climbers tend to keep their saddle lower to generate more power. I know, don’t believe everything you read.

 

[sogood]

Saddle height affects the geometry of your joint movements, so it certainly affects your power output.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Anyone with a power meter here ever done any experiments with saddle height? Not that they would be applicable to me, but it would be interesting to hear about them.

 

[kennf]

Does saddle height affect power output? I can imagine comfort is the top priority here. Just curious as I’ve seen different opinions. For example, I just read an article that suggested climbers tend to keep their saddle lower to generate more power. I know, don’t believe everything you read.

I haven't heard that about climbing specialist, but sprinters (particularly track sprinters) will have a lower position to facilitate spinning at 130 rpm. Most riders on a climb will scoot back a little in the saddle, which effectively raises the saddle height.

 

[Steve_B]

Anyone with a power meter here ever done any experiments with saddle height? Not that they would be applicable to me, but it would be interesting to hear about them.

I just did some fine adjustments on my saddle position on a new bike by checking what was most comfortable and also watching my power output at the same time. I did this on a trainer. I find that if my saddle is too low, my knees bow out and my power suffers.

 

[Biker Joe]

I just did some fine adjustments on my saddle position on a new bike by checking what was most comfortable and also watching my power output at the same time. I did this on a trainer. I find that if my saddle is too low, my knees bow out and my power suffers.

I remember reading an article, perhaps written by Carmichael indicating that if there is not enough extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke, power suffers.

 

[sogood]

I remember reading an article, perhaps written by Carmichael indicating that if there is not enough extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke, power suffers.

Too much extension, power will also suffer. So by natural extension, there has to be a sweet spot.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

I remember reading an article, perhaps written by Carmichael indicating that if there is not enough extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke, power suffers.

I thought it was just too much Carmichael that makes folks power suffer

 

[Steve_B]

I thought it was just too much Carmichael that makes folks power suffer

Wow. There's a zinger. As punishment Dave, go do 50 Power Stomps(TM).

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Wow. There's a zinger. As punishment Dave, go do 50 Power Stomps(TM).

I haven't paid the IP royalties on Power Stomps(TM) and I'm concerned about patent infringement

 

[Billsworld]

I haven't heard that about climbing specialist, but sprinters (particularly track sprinters) will have a lower position to facilitate spinning at 130 rpm. Most riders on a climb will scoot back a little in the saddle, which effectively raises the saddle height.

I ride track and use a PM for both bikes. I discovered that I made more power in higher cadences with the saddle lower. The cadences were in the 150-200 range however. I found that I made more power with the saddle up in the 110-120 range where I do some mass start racing. My conclusion was that I was the problem and not the saddle height. I have since corrected the problem by doing overspeed work in the saddle on rollers with and without resistance. Also doing longer intervals of 3-4 minutes at 120 helped smooth out the problem too. I used to have a bounce at 120 on rollers that would smooth out at higher rpm or by lowering the seat a bit. . That is basicly gone by working through it.......Study of one

 

[dkrenik]

Does saddle height affect power output? I can imagine comfort is the top priority here. Just curious as I’ve seen different opinions. For example, I just read an article that suggested climbers tend to keep their saddle lower to generate more power. I know, don’t believe everything you read.

Classic example of YMMV and/or "it depends". Bike fit is a very personal concern. If you've the structural "integrity", flexibility, etc a saddle height that enables greater extension might get you some more watts. If you don't have the strength/flexibility/etc required, it most likely will cost you some watts.

Dave

 

[swampy1970]

From testing I found that changing the position of the saddle backwards/forwards made more of a difference than a change in height.

Tests were done on the same hill (~8% for one mile) and time, speed, rpm and HR logged. Adjustments were made and retested two months later. All subsequent tests were a little quicker by a similar margin across the board. I expected the "new" position to be a little quicker in relation to the last set of tests after "getting used" to it over the space of a month but that wasn't the case.

Given that my thigh length in relation to leg length is a little on the short side (if Hinault's book is to be believed) then maybe that goes someway to explain why I prefer my seat more forward than what's traditionally considered normal on a road bike.

I noticed that when too high power would drop off but I didn't notice anything negative in power output when the saddle was too low. It just felt uncomfortable.

Range of adjustments:

Entire length of saddle rail - fore and aft
Height - from as high as I could pedal with some moderate discomfort to ~3inches lower than that. Yes, that looked a little goofy.

Bar position was altered with a Look Ergostem that's been "butchered" over the years.

One interesting tidbit I discovered after I started using Powercranks a couple of months ago is the seat height that gave me best power (as discovered pre PowerCrank usage) was the same height that feels comfortable when sitting on a bike with Powercranks on with both legs down and ankles relaxed with feet in a "levelish" position. Note, this gives you a different height than sitting on a bike with regular cranks with both feet on the pedal and one leg down or one leg dangling and one foot on the lower pedal....

 

[Piotr]

I ride track and use a PM for both bikes. I discovered that I made more power in higher cadences with the saddle lower. The cadences were in the 150-200 range however. I found that I made more power with the saddle up in the 110-120 range where I do some mass start racing. My conclusion was that I was the problem and not the saddle height. I have since corrected the problem by doing overspeed work in the saddle on rollers with and without resistance. Also doing longer intervals of 3-4 minutes at 120 helped smooth out the problem too. I used to have a bounce at 120 on rollers that would smooth out at higher rpm or by lowering the seat a bit. . That is basicly gone by working through it.......Study of one

I think what you're saying is that you could spin faster with a lowered saddle height. From observation I'd say that BMX'ers have known this all along.

 

[sogood]

From testing I found that changing the position of the saddle backwards/forwards made more of a difference than a change in height.

No surprise given the bum position of those TT riders. Typically right on the tip of the saddle.

 

[tonyzackery]

I don't profess to be an expert, but it appears to me what is being communicated here is an increase in seat angle (higher numerically) results in higher power for a given effort; aka increased efficiency. Lowering the saddle height effectively increases your seat angle, with the reverse decreasing it.

I too have experimented tremedously with this concept and have discovered I am most efficient with my knee approx. 1/2 forward of the pedal spindle at the horizontal pedal position. Due to the fact I have large feet (size 48 or size 14) getting my knee over the spindle of the pedal (let alone forward of it) to set up fore/aft saddle position is difficult if not impossible with any seatpost that has a setback. Ergo, I use zero setback or Profile Design's forward seatposts. I experience higher power with lower heart rates (everthing else being equal) with this forward saddle position, irrespective of saddle height (within reason, of course).

FYI, I use time trial/triathlon frames for road races and crits due to the fact their (tt/triathlon ~ 75-78 degree, and road ~ 72-74 degree) seat angles are greater than traditional road frames.

Experiment with it. Keep within the UCI rules - tip of saddle must be at least 5cm behind bottom bracket in a vertical plane. Be wary of any suspect handling traits with this forward position.

This works for me, it may or may not work for you...

 

[swampy1970]

No surprise given the bum position of those TT riders. Typically right on the tip of the saddle.

Yeah, but this testing was done on a hill on a road bike. No "ass higher than head" aerobar positions here.....

 

[sogood]

Yeah, but this testing was done on a hill on a road bike. No "ass higher than head" aerobar positions here.....

But you'll still get more power if you sat a bit more forward on your saddle. Typical TT position (aerobars don't help with power production but reduce power loss and possibly even reduce power production by restricting chest expansion).

 

[Billsworld]

I think what you're saying is that you could spin faster with a lowered saddle height. From observation I'd say that BMX'ers have known this all along.

Do those guys even sit? They sure do spin though

 

[sogood]

Do those guys even sit? They sure do spin though

Clearly it's a case of Virtual Saddle™.