Scientists worry about Pentagon’s new ray gun

[davidmc]

Updated: 1:10 p.m. ET July 20, 2005

LONDON - Scientists are questioning the safety of a "Star Wars"-style ray gun due to be deployed in Iraq for riot control next year.

The Active Denial System weapon, classified as “less lethal” by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds.

The idea is that people caught in the beam will rapidly try to move out of it and therefore break up the crowd.

But New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes.

In another test, they were also told to remove metal objects like coins from their clothing to avoid local hot spots developing on their skin.

“What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam,” asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at Britain’s Bradford University. “How do you ensure that the dose doesn’t cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?”

The magazine said a vehicle-mounted version of the weapon named Sheriff was scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006, and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8644374/

 

[Wurm]

I read a similar article a couple of days ago, maybe it was this one. (?)

Does anyone see where this type of thing is leading? We now have bogus U.S. elections, unilateralism, unjustified war, the Dept. of "Homeland Security", the "Patriot" Acts, and concentration camps (Gitmo) without oversight or Constitutional or Geneva Convention rights/protections.

Here's a clue:

 

[darkboong]

I read a similar article a couple of days ago, maybe it was this one. (?)

Does anyone see where this type of thing is leading? We now have bogus U.S. elections, unilateralism, unjustified war, the Dept. of "Homeland Security", the "Patriot" Acts, and concentration camps (Gitmo) without oversight or Constitutional or Geneva Convention rights/protections.

Here's a clue:

Yeah, I know exactly where it's leading. That beam thing won't work in Iraq. Hot lead will be fired right back at the guys using it. OTOH it'll work just dandy on the streets of New York. The pigs will be able to get their jollies roasting anti-war protesters alive. Not much chance that the guys operating that will pay attention to the usage guide.

 

[Don Shipp]

Will it be called a "Ronald Raygun"?

 

[MountainPro]

It is quite easy to build a protective shield from high energy microwave raditation (which is what this is)...very cheap too. There are articles on the internet on how to build these so called 'death rays' using a simple magnetron and a wave-guide commonly found in any domestic microwave oven..

With all the friendly fire indidents that have made the american army so infamous it would be intersting to know what the america troops with be wearing under thier bullet vests to prevent a stray blast.

Still though, i wouldnt like to have my liver cooked as a punishement for protesting against something i didnt like....my liver is destined for greater things...(no, not serocis before you ask..)...

Updated: 1:10 p.m. ET July 20, 2005

LONDON - Scientists are questioning the safety of a "Star Wars"-style ray gun due to be deployed in Iraq for riot control next year.

The Active Denial System weapon, classified as “less lethal” by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds.

The idea is that people caught in the beam will rapidly try to move out of it and therefore break up the crowd.

But New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes.

In another test, they were also told to remove metal objects like coins from their clothing to avoid local hot spots developing on their skin.

“What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam,” asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at Britain’s Bradford University. “How do you ensure that the dose doesn’t cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?”

The magazine said a vehicle-mounted version of the weapon named Sheriff was scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006, and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8644374/

 

[davidmc]

I had heard on the radio of a non-lethal disruptor but was unclear as to the mechanism involved. I believe I heard them say that they had produced a beam that would induce pleasure so that all they had to do was reverse engineer it. This weapon sounds like it could cause permanent damage if left unchecked. A blow to civil liberties-assembly.

 

[jhuskey]

The "Ronco Micro Blaster" no good terrorist fighter should be without one. Just turn it over and you have a handy little device for warming up buns and hot dogs at those overnight recon patrols. Baked potatoes in just 2 minutes.

Still not good enough ,if you order now you will receive absolutely free a filet knife good for hand to hand conflicts or just dressing down the daily kill.

[SIZE=1]Do not use around pets and small children or anybody you give a damn about. Extended use may cause diarrhea,shaking ,headaches,prematue ejaculation,hives,bleeding from the eyes,live disorder,veneral disease,heart attacks,lung cancer,rubella,bad breath,senility and the use of your credit cards.[/SIZE]

 

[jaguar75]

Updated: 1:10 p.m. ET July 20, 2005

LONDON - Scientists are questioning the safety of a "Star Wars"-style ray gun due to be deployed in Iraq for riot control next year.

The Active Denial System weapon, classified as “less lethal” by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds.

The idea is that people caught in the beam will rapidly try to move out of it and therefore break up the crowd.

But New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes.

In another test, they were also told to remove metal objects like coins from their clothing to avoid local hot spots developing on their skin.

“What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam,” asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at Britain’s Bradford University. “How do you ensure that the dose doesn’t cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?”

The magazine said a vehicle-mounted version of the weapon named Sheriff was scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006, and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8644374/

I for one am all for "Non-Lethals" as these "weapons" are called. There is an entire NON government industry that exists for this purpose. There are many forms of crowd control/dangerous suspect apprehension that places the officer in a very minimal harmful situation. One such device which is my favorite is a water cannon vehicle positions itself at the apex of a rioting crowd and dowses the crowd with a foam wash, the foam, upon contact, expands to 1,000 times its liquified form and encapsulates the crowd in a huge foam ball. The foam is also loaded with a fragrence designed to create a "happy" mood. When the crowd's anger has subsided another water vehicle sprays the foam with a harmless chemical that disolves it and everyone breaks up and goes home not really remembering why they were there in teh first place...I saw a video test of this and it was histerical but extremely non-lethal and effective...Another item about to be implemented with police is a device attached to a side arm that when pointed at a charging person emits many extremely bright flashes in rapid succession completey disorienting the person and temporarily blinding them and on most ossacions droping a person to their knees. There is also a combo device with this that if the person closes their eyes quickly enough the officer can fire a pellet at the person which contains a fragrence that is a combination of skunk repelent, cow manure, and something else that I forget. This "fragrence" causes the gag reflex to start and it is strong enough of a distraction to bring the biggest and baddest and most doped up person to their knees...

It is all really facinating stuff but the microwave bit is a bit extreme...The Army has tested succesfully a sound device that emits ultra low frequency waves that cause the inner ear and equilibrum to become unstable. Every sinlge subject immediately becomes ill and drops to the ground and as soon as the device is turned off people return to normal in a matter of minutes but with a really nasty headache and nausia...no one was ever permanently injured...The only problem with the device is it requires a tank to move it and an enormous amount of power...

 

[Darjevon]

One such device which is my favorite is a water cannon vehicle positions itself at the apex of a rioting crowd and dowses the crowd with a foam wash, the foam, upon contact, expands to 1,000 times its liquified form and encapsulates the crowd in a huge foam ball. The foam is also loaded with a fragrence designed to create a "happy" mood. QUOTE]

so what your suggesting is, glue everyone together with this "happy foam" and by the time they are able to free themselves, they are all in delirium and advanced dehydration and care more about getting water than protesting about the jobs Boeing cut them from.

 

[jaguar75]

One such device which is my favorite is a water cannon vehicle positions itself at the apex of a rioting crowd and dowses the crowd with a foam wash, the foam, upon contact, expands to 1,000 times its liquified form and encapsulates the crowd in a huge foam ball. The foam is also loaded with a fragrence designed to create a "happy" mood. QUOTE]

so what your suggesting is, glue everyone together with this "happy foam" and by the time they are able to free themselves, they are all in delirium and advanced dehydration and care more about getting water than protesting about the jobs Boeing cut them from.

Advanced dehydration...ummm this process does not not take days...it is over in a few hours. Anyone who dehydrates after a few hours of deprivation from water has much bigger issues to worry about than foam or their job with Boeing.

 

[Hypnospin]

cow manure might stop y'all in the big easy, but not here in bersrkely!

I for one am all for "Non-Lethals" as these "weapons" are called. , cow manure, and something else that I forget. This "fragrence" causes the gag reflex to start and it is strong enough of a distraction to bring the biggest and baddest and most doped up person to their knees...

...

 

[Wurm]

cow manure might stop y'all in the big easy, but not here in bersrkely!

Bovine scatology?

 

[darkboong]

It is quite easy to build a protective shield from high energy microwave raditation (which is what this is)...very cheap too. There are articles on the internet on how to build these so called 'death rays' using a simple magnetron and a wave-guide commonly found in any domestic microwave oven..

It is operating way beyond Microwaves tbh. Gamma rays are way up beyond Microwaves, and quite frankly they are a PITA to block.

 

[Chance3290]

After its deployed (Iraq or anywhere else) I give it three weeks before ones up for sale on ebay.

 

[Hypnospin]

so the approval for this kinda thing in your neighborhood is granted by you?
or just for the grateful liberated iraqis we are trying to give a taste of
good 'ol usa flag wavin' cajun style freedom via crowd control?


now, THAT should "win hearts minds", as is the stated us mission...


as for the absurdity of your presenting this as a "non-goverment" industry,
who is paying for us military weaponry again?

the taxpayer, wasn't it?

truly demoracy in action.
nevermind these deals always go to the high bidder friends and family of the bush regime as only the criminal bush league raqueteers would have it...

but don't worry, the taxpayer contribution from louisiana is low due to the high unemployment and low per capita income so others can foot the bill for you.
as long as it keeps your relatives and kids in line.

might even lower your crime rate, as louisiana has one of the highest percentages of it's population in prison.

maybe improve your academic scores, too.

or decrease the high infant mortality in your state.

with attention to crowd control in place, you truly should start to
"turn the corner"
with crowd control sponsored by your continued support of the goverment
that has done so much for you lately.

I for one am all for "Non-Lethals" as these "weapons" are called. There is an entire NON government industry that exists for this purpose. There are many forms of crowd control/dangerous suspect apprehension it and an enormous amount of power...

 

[MountainPro]

It is operating way beyond Microwaves tbh. Gamma rays are way up beyond Microwaves, and quite frankly they are a PITA to block.

PITA?...sorry bud, i dont know what that means..

most Electromagnetic waves can be easily grounded using a Faraday cage regardless of thier frequency. These days you can get them woven into clothing for scientists who work with dangerous EM radiation energy levels.

 

[darkboong]

PITA?...sorry bud, i dont know what that means..

Pain in the Ass.

most Electromagnetic waves can be easily grounded using a Faraday cage regardless of thier frequency.

NOTE: You said Most.

Gamma rays (for example) are not so easily stopped. The spectrum that we use day to day is a relatively small chunk of what has been observed and studied. Apparently there are some weird propogation modes too that break Faraday cages. Furthermore, coming up with a workable Faraday cage for short wavelengths is none-trivial, and unlikely to be woven into fabric.

IIRC we're talking about 95GHz here, which is a *very* short wavelength.

 

[davidmc]

so the approval for this kinda thing in your neighborhood is granted by you?
or just for the grateful liberated iraqis we are trying to give a taste of
good 'ol usa flag wavin' cajun style freedom via crowd control?


now, THAT should "win hearts minds", as is the stated us mission...


as for the absurdity of your presenting this as a "non-goverment" industry,
who is paying for us military weaponry again?

the taxpayer, wasn't it?

truly demoracy in action.
nevermind these deals always go to the high bidder friends and family of the bush regime as only the criminal bush league raqueteers would have it...

but don't worry, the taxpayer contribution from louisiana is low due to the high unemployment and low per capita income so others can foot the bill for you.
as long as it keeps your relatives and kids in line.

might even lower your crime rate, as louisiana has one of the highest percentages of it's population in prison.

maybe improve your academic scores, too.

or decrease the high infant mortality in your state.

with attention to crowd control in place, you truly should start to
"turn the corner"
with crowd control sponsored by your continued support of the goverment
that has done so much for you lately.

"Thread-Master" checking in here. "Touché" or should I say "ouch" inre: the above

 

[MountainPro]

Yep, youre right...the Faraday cage has its limitations, afaik the only thing that can help stop gamma rays would be a lead shield. Not quite so easy to carry around with you...

Pain in the Ass.



NOTE: You said Most.

Gamma rays (for example) are not so easily stopped. The spectrum that we use day to day is a relatively small chunk of what has been observed and studied. Apparently there are some weird propogation modes too that break Faraday cages. Furthermore, coming up with a workable Faraday cage for short wavelengths is none-trivial, and unlikely to be woven into fabric.

IIRC we're talking about 95GHz here, which is a *very* short wavelength.

 

[Carrera]

"The Active Denial System weapon, classified as “less lethal” by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds."

Would it work on abusive motorists do you think?

Updated: 1:10 p.m. ET July 20, 2005

LONDON - Scientists are questioning the safety of a "Star Wars"-style ray gun due to be deployed in Iraq for riot control next year.

The Active Denial System weapon, classified as “less lethal” by the Pentagon, fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds.

The idea is that people caught in the beam will rapidly try to move out of it and therefore break up the crowd.

But New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes.

In another test, they were also told to remove metal objects like coins from their clothing to avoid local hot spots developing on their skin.

“What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam,” asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at Britain’s Bradford University. “How do you ensure that the dose doesn’t cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?”

The magazine said a vehicle-mounted version of the weapon named Sheriff was scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006, and that U.S. Marines and police were both working on portable versions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8644374/