Sheldon Brown's 2007 Interbike Report



On Sep 30, 9:15 pm, vey <[email protected]> wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>
> > I saw the Weekend Journal coverage of new $5000+ bikes, carefully
> > designed by respraying a $900 bike and calling it 'limited edition'.
> > Hmmmmm.
> > Apparently, I lead a sheltered life here. But given the choice to drink
> > the Kool Aid (Vegas, corporate brands on my floor, etc) I guess I'll
> > stay happy in my ignorance. What is wrong with these people?
>
> It's enough to make me stay in the used market forever. Besides, why do
> they call a flatbar bike a commuter bike? If you want to get from point
> "A" to point "B", then you don't want any sort of MTB anything. Over the
> age of 40 and it kills your back.


Flat bars are just dandy for under twenty miles. Trick is to saw them
down a cm or two on each end, as they're usually crazy wide.(just
don't saw them hipster narrow, you jokesters) I like them for city
bikes as you get great bike control, as the expense of a bit of
comfort. For casual city riding or if you're in Europe, get some North
Road style bars of course. Off road, I'm a moustache bar convert for
my smooth fire roads, and of course, real distance riding requires
real multi position bars like drops or butterfly bars.

Flats as an alternative for "fitness" type riding is indeed absurd if
the rider is going for distance--flat bar road bikes are pretty silly
as well, because in those situations, all ya really need is a drop bar
at the right height.
 
> Yes, at least the Newsboy was nuovo-retro, semi-sheeny Ti. The money
> burners seemed to like that. If I were going to get a cost-no-object
> commuter with lots of Bohemian chic, it would be this one:http://www.vanillabicycles.com(click the commuter tab). But again, I
> never needed a super-special commuter, and if I bought one of Sacha's
> wonder bikes, I'd want to put it in a glass case and not thrash it
> throught the swamps in PDX during the fall, winter and spring. -- Jay
> Beattie.

that's how i feel too. there's no shortage of used bikes on craigslist
for less than $200--i got my old fuji for $35, put a rear rack,
fenders and a bag for my books, and have been riding it happily for
several years. for a bike that's actually going to get locked up to
poles in high-risk areas, banged around, ridden on crappy streets, in
bad weather, sometimes left out overnight, etc., it seems the
reasonable thing is to just get a cheap used bike and wear it out.
then get another one. etc..

you could get a really nice bike to commute on, but why bother? then
you have to worry about it getting stolen or beat up all the time.

(my favorite are the people who apparently get nice frames/bikes and
then disguise/uglify them to discourage theft...somehow, that seems
self-defeating.)
 
vey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > I'm back and have written up some of what I saw at Interbike.
>
> The Unior Tools look interesting. Check out this Pocket spoke and
> freewheel remover wrench in one. I'm a sucker for multi-tasking tools.http://www.uniortools.com/cgi-bin/cms.cgi?doc=10780&prod=44729&si...
> -or-http://tinyurl.com/2etboh

Yes, I reported on that one last year. http://sheldonbrown.com/lasvegas/2006

We sell a lot of these: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/cassette.html

It's not a freewheel remover, though, only works for cassettes. See:
http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7 if you are unsure of the difference.

Sheldon "Old News" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| The two most beautiful words in the English language are: |
| 'Cheque enclosed.' -- Dorothy Parker |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> vey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>>> I'm back and have written up some of what I saw at Interbike.
>> The Unior Tools look interesting. Check out this Pocket spoke and
>> freewheel remover wrench in one. I'm a sucker for multi-tasking tools.http://www.uniortools.com/cgi-bin/cms.cgi?doc=10780&prod=44729&si...
>> -or-http://tinyurl.com/2etboh
>
> Yes, I reported on that one last year. http://sheldonbrown.com/lasvegas/2006
>
> We sell a lot of these: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/cassette.html
>
> It's not a freewheel remover, though, only works for cassettes. See:
> http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7 if you are unsure of the difference.
>
> Sheldon "Old News" Brown
> +--------------------------------------------------------------+
> | The two most beautiful words in the English language are: |
> | 'Cheque enclosed.' -- Dorothy Parker |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com
> Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> http://sheldonbrown.com
>
>
I too thought this was a great idea for occasional use/weight saving
when touring, however in a trial freehub removal, I had a lot of trouble
aligning the Unior tool and eventually time constraints forced me to go
back to a normal splined tool/quick release combination. We're off to
the mountains for a week's tour shortly, and I'll be taking the Unior
tool regardless of my inability to use it under pressure. I hope not to
be able to report on its use.

--
Bob C

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > The Civia frame, with all those
> > molded-in guides and easy provision for hub or derailer setups, looks
> > like it would be a sweet commuter.
>
> It's a nice-looking frame, but boy does it carry a heavy tariff for
> those neat cable guides. $1900 for the single speed complete bike!
> I'm sure some of the seemingly unnecessary expense is for the Alfine
> parts, but wow.
>
> Cycle commuters are pragmatic folk. It's one thing to sell a $2000-
> $3000 bike to a fashion-seeking tool for use as a plaything, but a
> transportational bike is a value-driven purchase. I think that Surly
> serves the _high_ end of that market, but QBP evidently thinks it's
> the low end. I wish them luck, but I predict an indifferent market
> reception.
>
> Chalo

Maybe, maybe not. The dependency here is this: you and I are practical
men of action, who buy whatever they find in the nearest garage sale (or
in your case, have custom built, for morphological reasons :). Then we
add fenders and racks, and that's that. The $20 commuter.

However, there is a certain subset of people who commute by bike,
probably in the city, and have considerable disposable income. For them,
these things are probably the two-wheeled equivalent of a BMW 5-series:
beautifully-made rolling overkill.

Which is great, because in a decade you and I will be buying this
generation's leftovers at pennies on the dollar.

Well, I think I'll leave the iDrive BMWs on the shelf.

I hope, for lots of reasons, that this bike finds its market, expensive
as it is. It isn't the solution to commuting by bike, but it would be a
fine bellwether to say that that's the way things are going.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau a ?crit:
>
> > My personal theory is that the Great Missing Bicycle for sports use is a
> > cyclocross bike based around an Alfine 8-speed hub. My reasoning is that
> > those bikes are desperately vulnerable to mud-clogged transmissions, and
> > a lot of pros already run a single front ring.
>
> Great minds...See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bianchi-sanjos8
>
> Sheldon "Been There, Done That, Sold Lots" Brown

Ingenious! What's the finished weight of that bike? Have you built up
any using the new Alfine hubs, or are they the same as Nexus Red Band?
Am I right in guessing that the finished price is somewhere around $1000?

Tempted, despite the fact I'm about to buy another laptop,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 05:15:58 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> >
>> > The Civia frame, with all those
>> > molded-in guides and easy provision for hub or derailer setups, looks
>> > like it would be a sweet commuter.
>>
>> It's a nice-looking frame, but boy does it carry a heavy tariff for
>> those neat cable guides. $1900 for the single speed complete bike!
>> I'm sure some of the seemingly unnecessary expense is for the Alfine
>> parts, but wow.
>>
>> Cycle commuters are pragmatic folk. It's one thing to sell a $2000-
>> $3000 bike to a fashion-seeking tool for use as a plaything, but a
>> transportational bike is a value-driven purchase. I think that Surly
>> serves the _high_ end of that market, but QBP evidently thinks it's
>> the low end. I wish them luck, but I predict an indifferent market
>> reception.
>>
>> Chalo
>
>Maybe, maybe not. The dependency here is this: you and I are practical
>men of action, who buy whatever they find in the nearest garage sale (or
>in your case, have custom built, for morphological reasons :). Then we
>add fenders and racks, and that's that. The $20 commuter.
>
>However, there is a certain subset of people who commute by bike,
>probably in the city, and have considerable disposable income. For them,
>these things are probably the two-wheeled equivalent of a BMW 5-series:
>beautifully-made rolling overkill.
>
>Which is great, because in a decade you and I will be buying this
>generation's leftovers at pennies on the dollar.
>
>Well, I think I'll leave the iDrive BMWs on the shelf.
>
>I hope, for lots of reasons, that this bike finds its market, expensive
>as it is. It isn't the solution to commuting by bike, but it would be a
>fine bellwether to say that that's the way things are going.

Yep, their target market is kinda obvious.. . people with jobs that
offer secure parking.

Jorg and Olif have done well selling their Dutch bikes. I've spotted
a new Pashley, a new Batavus and a few nice looking Euro style
step-throughs in the hood too. Rain City Bikes has some pricey
offerings. We'll see how they do.

Our "beaters" came out of dumpsters and garage sales to develop into
practical city-bikes by our tweaking them to satisfy our needs,
budget and geek quota. These new bikes are swanky but it's going to
be a hard sell making full chain-cases and 40 lbs. bicycles sexy
after all the sport bike hype.

I think the biggest hurdle for the manufacturers entering this market
will be having to compete with electric bikes from China at the same
price-point or lower.

The electric bike makers may have to form a strong lobby in order to
have their products made more widely acceptable by local laws before
they can compete with bicycles. We're lucky, or maybe cursed, here in
that buzz-bikes aren't unnecessarily restricted.
--
zk
 
"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Jay Beattie wrote:
>>> If it is trying to appeal to real commuters, forget it. Personally, I
>>> have never needed r-a supespecial commuting bike. A good solid bike
>>> with right-sized tires, fenders, lights and a good can of spray lube
>>> has always been enough. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> vey wrote:
>> So you complain about the color? I can understand complaining about a lot
>> of other things, but if all you need is, "A good solid bike" then
>> *****ing about it being "butt ugly" and "turd brown" doesn't make much
>> sense to a bystander.
>
> I thought Jay meant that for that kind of money it oughta be flashy.
>
If not flashy, at least classy. Breezer has that figured out. That classic
Schwinn-style paint job is very nice, indeed.
 
A Muzi wrote:
>
> I saw the Weekend Journal coverage of new $5000+ bikes, carefully
> designed by respraying a $900 bike and calling it 'limited edition'.
> Hmmmmm.
> Apparently, I lead a sheltered life here. But given the choice to
> drink the Kool Aid (Vegas, corporate brands on my floor, etc) I guess
> I'll stay happy in my ignorance. What is wrong with these people?

(Weekend Journal is part of the Wall St. Journal)
This article was almost a parody. Here's a couple of excerpts:

"The "Colnago For Ferrari 60th" commemorates the automaker's anniversary
with two racing bikes in signature colors and insignia. Available only
through Ferrari dealerships and official Colnago stores, the bicycles are
built-to-measure and take between 14 to 16 weeks to arrive. The F60 Fulcrum
Racing Zero bike costs approximately $13,000; only 199 will be sold
worldwide. The F60 Lightweight edition runs about $15,000; only 60 will be
sold worldwide."

"The 2008 City Storm designed by British furniture and interior designer
Michael Young retails for $1,300. Components were chosen based on aesthetics
rather than ride [SAY WHAT?]. Although the shipments won't arrive until
January, manufacturer Giant Bicycle's City Storms are already completely
sold out."

Here's the link, but remember WSJ is a paid site:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119092693639341667.html
Wow. That's my dream commuter. A bike designed by an interior designer, with
components chosen based on aesthetics rather than ride. But there's more.

""We're totally changing our mindset here," says Tim Rutledge, a marketing
manager for Seattle Bike Supply, a distributor of brands like Redline and
Torker. Mr. Rutledge says that until this year, his company's most-expensive
bike was $1,500. This year, the company did a limited edition of its 2008
Redline Team Cyclo-Cross bike, making fewer than 80 and selling them for
$2,500. They quickly sold out, prompting the company to plan a 2009 version
and to make 200 of the bikes for $2,700 apiece. The company will also have a
limited edition LaPierre Tour Replica bike, making 50 to 100 for $5,300
each. "The sky's the limit now," Mr. Rutledge says."
 
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
Then we
> add fenders and racks, and that's that. The $20 commuter.
>

Where do you get fenders and racks for a total of $20?
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mike Kruger
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Here's the link, but remember WSJ is a paid site:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119092693639341667.html

Here's a surprising fact[?] from the above article:
"It's no longer enough to have the best bicycle on the block. Now you
have to have the best fleet.

Facing a declining number of riders and increasing competition from
boutique makers offering $10,000 custom-built rides...

....The number of people riding bicycles fell 8.7% to 35.6 million
between 2001 and 2006, according to the National Sporting Goods
Association. Still, makers were able to keep up sales during that
period, with units sold up 16%, dollar sales up 33% and the average
sales price 26% higher at $297, according to the Bicycle Products
Suppliers Association."
Click to expand...

I was of the opinion that ridership was increasing in North America.
Certainly that's what a casual glance round here (Toronto) leads one to
believe.
 
On Oct 1, 9:03 am, Luke <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <011020071003006641%[email protected]>, Luke
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, vey <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > Then we
> > > > add fenders and racks, and that's that. The $20 commuter.
>
> > > Where do you get fenders and racks for a total of $20?
>
> > In Canada:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/yr5cvl
>
> Well, fenders anyway.

I got both front and rear rack at Nashbar a month ago for ~$10 each.
Nice sturdy three strut rear with a 55# capacity. Had some fenders
hanging in the garage, so $20 total. :p

Reality is that a set of fenders and a rack at most LBS's is going to
be at least $60. They gotta pay the light bill.
 
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Andrew Muzi mused:
>> ...
>> Apparently, I lead a sheltered life here. But given the choice to
>> drink the Kool Aid (Vegas, corporate brands on my floor, etc) I guess
>> I'll stay happy in my ignorance. What is wrong with these people?
>
> You only sell bicycles made by sole proprietorships and partnerships?
>
> What is wrong with "corporate brands" (question, not a flame)?
>
Admittedly a poor choice of words. I can't think of a pithy term.

I used to sell bikes from the kinda guys who visit regularly, calc their
% of floor space, wouldn't sell unless you bought a 'program', insisted
on tied accessory sales then raised your unit cost if another brand was
strong in the shop. At 2500 bikes/year I was miserable and losing money
fast. That's no life at all IMHO.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Sep 30, 10:22 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau a ?crit:
>
> > > My personal theory is that the Great Missing Bicycle for sports use is a
> > > cyclocross bike based around an Alfine 8-speed hub. My reasoning is that
> > > those bikes are desperately vulnerable to mud-clogged transmissions, and
> > > a lot of pros already run a single front ring.
>
> > Great minds...See:http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bianchi-sanjos8
>
> > Sheldon "Been There, Done That, Sold Lots" Brown
>
> Ingenious! What's the finished weight of that bike? Have you built up
> any using the new Alfine hubs, or are they the same as Nexus Red Band?
> Am I right in guessing that the finished price is somewhere around $1000?
>
> Tempted, despite the fact I'm about to buy another laptop,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau [email protected]://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

I'm just waiting for my On-One Pompino frame to show up at my LBS and
I'll have that setup as well. I'm running it with 135 rear spacing,
and Surly hubs for flip flop single/fixed riding. I'll make it a
travel bike with a Nexus hub a little later.

Thanks to Sheldon for his wheel building page - I built my first two
wheels last night and they look pretty good!
 
On Sep 30, 4:54 pm, blisterlester <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why is it the more you pay for a hotel room, the more likely you will
> need to pay for internet and coffee? Seems backwards.

You have to remember that this is Las Vegas. No coffee in the room
(SOP in Vegas) means you leave your room to get it which means you'll
probably, at the very least, drop some loose change in the machines on
your way from and back to your room on your coffee run. They also
don't want you sitting in your room surfing the Internet when your
butt should be comfortably ensconced on a stool at a blackjack table.

Tom Young
 
A Muzi wrote:

> I used to sell bikes from the kinda guys who visit regularly, calc their
> % of floor space, wouldn't sell unless you bought a 'program', insisted
> on tied accessory sales then raised your unit cost if another brand was
> strong in the shop. At 2500 bikes/year I was miserable and losing money
> fast. That's no life at all IMHO.

I tend to go to shops like yours, non-tied shops. Still, apparently it
works well for some shops to be tied to one brand.
 
SMS wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>
>> I used to sell bikes from the kinda guys who visit regularly, calc
>> their % of floor space, wouldn't sell unless you bought a 'program',
>> insisted on tied accessory sales then raised your unit cost if another
>> brand was strong in the shop. At 2500 bikes/year I was miserable and
>> losing money fast. That's no life at all IMHO.
>
> I tend to go to shops like yours, non-tied shops. Still, apparently it
> works well for some shops to be tied to one brand.

Is "Giant" one of those brands? I went to my LBS the other day and I had
to wait. While I was waiting I looked around and I don't think I saw a
single bike in there that wasn't a Giant and they had at least 150 bikes
on the floor jammed in tight.
 
vey wrote:

> Is "Giant" one of those brands? I went to my LBS the other day and I had
> to wait. While I was waiting I looked around and I don't think I saw a
> single bike in there that wasn't a Giant and they had at least 150 bikes
> on the floor jammed in tight.

No, the shop is tied to the Trek brands. It's fine for those who want a
Trek product, and it's a very good shop. Unfortunately, the last few
bikes I've purchased for myself and family members, there was no Trek
product that was suitable in terms of features, size, and price.
 
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