Shimano XT driveset gripe

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:15:21 GMT, angotja
<[email hidden]> blathered:

Quoted message said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put close
to 500 miles on them, and they have started creaking. This
is obnoxious.

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

Nope, it needed replacing a couple of weeks ago - say hello
to a complete new drivetrain!

Quoted message said:

Truvativ and Race Face seem like excellent alternatives. I
want to see what others have to say...any recommendations
for specific products (comparable in price & performance
concept of the XT line)?

There is nothing wrong with XT cranks - very good piece of
kit. As far as the consumables - Middleburn rings & SRAM
chains/cassettes, but sorry, they don't meet your criteria
as they are cheaper than Shimano stuff and last longer.

Pete Jones

"angotja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put
close to 500 miles on them, and they have started
creaking. This is obnoxious.

Probably not. The crank/BB interface is most likely
dirty/loose and requires removal, cleaning and refitting.

Quoted message said:

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

Yes, that happens.

Quoted message said:

I am unable to achieve surefire shifting on the cassette.
Upshifts & downshifts skip gears. Upshifts are worse than
downshifts (higher instance of disengagement).

You are aware that cables need to be adjusted and lubricated
on a regular basis?

<snipped for brevity>

Quoted message said:

I want --this is intuitive-- durability, reliability,
performance and value. I expect nothing less for the price
I pay to ride.

XT offers all these things.

Quoted message said:

**unnecessary pre-emptive rebuttal**

I understand this is not a perfect world, and we all
experience difficulty. I expect manufacturers to address
our needs and improve their products (Shimano has been
doing this too long to give me poor pruduct). I don't care
to see any proposed criticism of my basic ethos.

That's a shame. You seem to be under the impression that a
mountain bike is like a car, requiring only periodic
servicing to keep it sweet. This is not true. With the
exception of the chain (which should be considered a
consumable item irrespective of brand), 500 miles is very
little mileage and I seriously doubt that any of the other
components are actually worn out.

All the symptoms you describe point to a bike that needs
cleaning, lubrication and adjustment, and without these
any equipment will be as crappy as you evidently think XT
is. Have you actually had any maintainance done since the
bike was new? Have the control cables been cleaned and
adjusted recently?

If you want a bike you don't have to maintain, I recommend
you go out and buy a rigid steel singlespeed bike with an
oil bath chaincase and drum brakes. If you don't want one of
these, then you need to accept that bike maintainance
happens and that you either need to pay a good spannerman
regularly or roll your sleeves up (www.sheldonbrown.com is a
good place to start).

Curb the ranting consumer angle and get educated. You'll be
a lot happier.

Andy Chequer.

I just upgraded to all XT components. The model that I got
was last years, 2003. I have read in many, many reviews of
the XT cranks that they do start creaking as time goes on.
This seems to be a problem with their last year model (M-
750, I think). This is due to the fact that the spider is
part of the crank arm. Notice that this year's model, has
remedied this problem and they have integrated the crank arm
and the spider - as it should be.

Mine hasn't started creaking yet, but I'm just waiting.

- Noel

angotja said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put
close to 500 miles on them, and they have started
creaking. This is obnoxious.

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

I am unable to achieve surefire shifting on the cassette.
Upshifts & downshifts skip gears. Upshifts are worse than
downshifts (higher instance of disengagement).

I feel this is a very short life for this equipment. I
should not have to replace this stuff so rapidly! Shimano
has yet to earn my allegiance as a customer...at this
rate, they certainly won't...unless my crankset is
defective and is replaced by a solid, durable one. I am
certainly not going to stick with their line.

Truvativ and Race Face seem like excellent alternatives. I
want to see what others have to say...any recommendations
for specific products (comparable in price & performance
concept of the XT line)? Are there compatability issues to
the extent that I must totally throw Shimano by the
wayside? I have never tried any other line of products,
and I am looking for any excuse to do so...

I want --this is intuitive-- durability, reliability,
performance and value. I expect nothing less for the price
I pay to ride.

**unnecessary pre-emptive rebuttal**

I understand this is not a perfect world, and we all
experience difficulty. I expect manufacturers to address
our needs and improve their products (Shimano has been
doing this too long to give me poor pruduct). I don't care
to see any proposed criticism of my basic ethos. I should
get what I pay for, and since I paid a lot, I should get a
lot. I try to give the manufacturer the opportunity to
correct their problems. If they are able to do so, I won't
discontinue usage.

I appreciate input and constructive criticism.

--

I just upgraded to all XT components. The model that I got
was last years, 2003. I have read in many, many reviews of
the XT cranks that they do start creaking as time goes on.
This seems to be a problem with their last year model (M-
752, I think). This is due to the fact that the spider is
part of the crank arm. Notice that this year's model, has
remedied this problem and they have integrated the crank arm
and the spider - as it should be.

Also, I've heard that the middle ring on this crank isn't
very good either. I don't know if they've fixed that for
2004 or not.

Mine hasn't started creaking yet, but I'm just waiting.

- Noel

angotja said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put
close to 500 miles on them, and they have started
creaking. This is obnoxious.

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

I am unable to achieve surefire shifting on the cassette.
Upshifts & downshifts skip gears. Upshifts are worse than
downshifts (higher instance of disengagement).

I feel this is a very short life for this equipment. I
should not have to replace this stuff so rapidly! Shimano
has yet to earn my allegiance as a customer...at this
rate, they certainly won't...unless my crankset is
defective and is replaced by a solid, durable one. I am
certainly not going to stick with their line.

Truvativ and Race Face seem like excellent alternatives. I
want to see what others have to say...any recommendations
for specific products (comparable in price & performance
concept of the XT line)? Are there compatability issues to
the extent that I must totally throw Shimano by the
wayside? I have never tried any other line of products,
and I am looking for any excuse to do so...

I want --this is intuitive-- durability, reliability,
performance and value. I expect nothing less for the price
I pay to ride.

**unnecessary pre-emptive rebuttal**

I understand this is not a perfect world, and we all
experience difficulty. I expect manufacturers to address
our needs and improve their products (Shimano has been
doing this too long to give me poor pruduct). I don't care
to see any proposed criticism of my basic ethos. I should
get what I pay for, and since I paid a lot, I should get a
lot. I try to give the manufacturer the opportunity to
correct their problems. If they are able to do so, I won't
discontinue usage.

I appreciate input and constructive criticism.

--

angotja <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put
close to 500 miles on them, and they have started
creaking. This is obnoxious.

Disassemble, clean, lube, reassemble. Torque to proper
specifications. This includes the BB. Inspect BB shell and
associated welds for cracks. If it still creaks, you're
probably right. About the failure, that is.

Quoted message said:

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

Actually, it's past time. Hopefully, your cassette and
chainrings are still servicable.

Quoted message said:

I am unable to achieve surefire shifting on the cassette.
Upshifts & downshifts skip gears. Upshifts are worse than
downshifts (higher instance of disengagement).

When was the last time you maintained the cabling system?
Have you tried to adjust the RD to shift properly?

Quoted message said:

I feel this is a very short life for this equipment.

It depends on what is really wrong, and what is simply out
of adjustment.

Quoted message said:

I should not have to replace this stuff so rapidly!

I'll bet not all of it is worn out.

Quoted message said:

Truvativ and Race Face seem like excellent alternatives. I
want to see what others have to say...any recommendations
for specific products (comparable in price & performance
concept of the XT line)? Are there compatability issues to
the extent that I must totally throw Shimano by the
wayside? I have never tried any other line of products,
and I am looking for any excuse to do so...

Well, it's hard to beat the price/performance ratio of
Shimano. But those guys will be different, if you have the
money to rplace it all.

Quoted message said:

I want --this is intuitive-- durability, reliability,
performance and value. I expect nothing less for the price
I pay to ride.

My XT gear has been pretty good so far. But I set it up
carefully to start with, and maintain it properly. If you
slap it on, and never do anything else to it, pretty soon
life will suck.

Quoted message said:

**unnecessary pre-emptive rebuttal**

I understand this is not a perfect world, and we all
experience difficulty. I expect manufacturers to address
our needs and improve their products (Shimano has been
doing this too long to give me poor pruduct). I don't care
to see any proposed criticism of my basic ethos. I should
get what I pay for, and since I paid a lot, I should get a
lot. I try to give the manufacturer the opportunity to
correct their problems. If they are able to do so, I won't
discontinue usage.

I appreciate input and constructive criticism.

If it is indeed actual equipment failure, I would tend to
agree with your commentary. But if it is lack of proper set-
up and maintenace on your part, it's not Shimano's fault.
You can change out the who lot of it, and have problems in
500 miles with non-Shimano gear, if you just slap it on and
don't do anything else.

There's not enough info to draw a conclusion, I'm afraid.
--
Jonesy

I just upgraded to all XT components. The model that I got
was last years, 2003. I have read in many, many reviews of
the XT cranks that they do start creaking as time goes on.
This seems to be a problem with their last year model (M-
752, I think). This is due to the fact that the spider is
not part of the crank arm. Notice that this year's model,
has remedied this problem and they have integrated the crank
arm and the spider - as it should be.

Also, I've heard that the middle ring on this crank isn't
very good either. I don't know if they've fixed that for
2004 or not.

Mine hasn't started creaking yet, but I'm just waiting.

- Noel

angotja said:

It looks like my crankset might fail soon. I have put
close to 500 miles on them, and they have started
creaking. This is obnoxious.

Apparently, my chain has stretched to .75%. It will need
replacement in a couple of weeks.

I am unable to achieve surefire shifting on the cassette.
Upshifts & downshifts skip gears. Upshifts are worse than
downshifts (higher instance of disengagement).

I feel this is a very short life for this equipment. I
should not have to replace this stuff so rapidly! Shimano
has yet to earn my allegiance as a customer...at this
rate, they certainly won't...unless my crankset is
defective and is replaced by a solid, durable one. I am
certainly not going to stick with their line.

Truvativ and Race Face seem like excellent alternatives. I
want to see what others have to say...any recommendations
for specific products (comparable in price & performance
concept of the XT line)? Are there compatability issues to
the extent that I must totally throw Shimano by the
wayside? I have never tried any other line of products,
and I am looking for any excuse to do so...

I want --this is intuitive-- durability, reliability,
performance and value. I expect nothing less for the price
I pay to ride.

**unnecessary pre-emptive rebuttal**

I understand this is not a perfect world, and we all
experience difficulty. I expect manufacturers to address
our needs and improve their products (Shimano has been
doing this too long to give me poor pruduct). I don't care
to see any proposed criticism of my basic ethos. I should
get what I pay for, and since I paid a lot, I should get a
lot. I try to give the manufacturer the opportunity to
correct their problems. If they are able to do so, I won't
discontinue usage.

I appreciate input and constructive criticism.

--

I did a major servicing of cassette, chain, and cables. After having removed some built-up gunk from the chain and cassette, I noticed improved performance. My cables really needed little adjustment.

I hooked up the servicing last night, and rode 25 mi today (so far), and so far so good. Performance is satisfactory, but crank still creaks (less than before), and gears still slip (less frequently than before).

I am changing my service interval from once every 200 mi to once every 75-100 mi. Apparently this equipment needs more TLC than I expected! Maybe it is more wise to service after every ride?

"angotja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I did a major servicing of cassette, chain, and cables.
After having removed some built-up gunk from the chain and
cassette, I noticed improved performance. My cables really
needed little adjustment.

I hooked up the servicing last night, and rode 25 mi today
(so far), and so far so good. Performance is satisfactory,
but crank still creaks (less than before), and gears still
slip (less frequently than before).

I am changing my service interval from once every 200 mi
to once every 75-100 mi. Apparently this equipment needs
more TLC than I expected! Maybe it is more wise to service
after every ride?

I've been real lazy about service to my bike, but during
racing season I give everything a quick once over anytime
anything feels off, and always right before the weekly
races. I haven't serviced my drivetrain in probably the last
400 miles or so - but besides it sounding pretty dry, its
working great. Mostly XT components, raceface turbine LP
crankset, WTB Laserdisc Lite hub. I'm personally amazed i'm
still able to shift! Of course, I did build the entire bike
by hand myself - and during the first couple months of heavy
use last summer I tore the bike down and rebuilt it
(bb/cassette/crankset all pulled and cleaned, derailleurs
given a thorough once over, cables checked and once changed)
about 3 times, then threw it all back together again myself.
Granted I worked at a shop, so I had access to everything I
needed. You tend to take a little more care (and a lot more
time) when its YOU working on your bike, and not just some
random mechanic in a shop doing the "standard tuneup"! Bonus
- we did it when business was slow and the boss wasn't
there, so I got paid to do it 🙂

Jon Bond