Specialized tubes -- more stem failures

Matt O'Toole said:

OK, this is really annoying.

I went on a MTB ride late this afternoon. Though light was fading we
decided to do one more loop. On the way down I felt my rear tire go flat.
I got out my spare tube and started pumping with my friend's pump (I had
forgotten mine). On removing the pump, I pulled the valve stem right out
of the tube! Because I had patches I decided to patch the first tube.
But on pumping it I discovered the leak was at the base of the valve stem,
unpatchable. It was a slow leak though, so I decided to pump it and ride
on it as far as I could. Well it lasted most of the way, but by this time
it was dark. Thankfully someone had a light.

Guess what brand these tubes were?

Surprise -- Specialized!

Unfortunately I needed a couple of tubes last year while on vacation, so
against my better judgment I bought these because they were the only ones
the bike shop had. Thus I was burned again, by the stem failure problem
endemic to this brand for over a decade.

So do not buy Specialized tubes. If you're a bike shop owner, please do
us all a favor and stock another brand instead. Cheng Shin, for example,
or Michelin.

Actually, I don't think this problem is limited to just Specialized
tubes. I had this same problems with tubes sold as Clement, Vittoria
and lately, Performance. Further, Specialized doesn't make their own
tubes, they buy it from the same factory as the others. I believe all
of the tubes are made in the same factory in Thailand.

I'm thinking the mfrs are specifying less rubber around the valve stem
to "reduce" the weight of the tube and/or cut cost. It may only be like
a few pennies or even a nickel per tube, but add it up by the thousands
and it can be a substantial savings.

Matt O'Toole said:

OK, this is really annoying.

Quoted message said:

I went on a MTB ride late this afternoon. Though light was fading we
decided to do one more loop. On the way down I felt my rear tire go
flat. I got out my spare tube and started pumping with my friend's
pump (I had forgotten mine). On removing the pump, I pulled the
valve stem right out of the tube! Because I had patches I decided
to patch the first tube. But on pumping it I discovered the leak
was at the base of the valve stem, unpatchable. It was a slow leak
though, so I decided to pump it and ride on it as far as I could.
Well it lasted most of the way, but by this time it was dark.
Thankfully someone had a light.

Well they are patchable if you carry a Presta tubular tire stem in
your patch kit:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG

Remove the rest of the failed stem as cleanly as possible, wet the
tubular stem mushroom and pop it in the stem hole. You'll need some
sort of wrench to tighten the hex clamp nut and you're done.

Quoted message said:

Guess what brand these tubes were?

Quoted message said:

Surprise -- Specialized!

Of course Specialized is responsible for the quality of products sold
under their name but as we saw with road bicycle tubes, the stem
separation was present in most brands at the time, showing that they
are packaged under different labels by the same manufacturer.

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over from
that era. You may have noticed the self flagellation of some
contributors here who put the blame on the user saying that they
pumped incorrectly or crewed the stem jam nut too tightly. Neither of
these can tear the stem out inadvertently. It takes substantial
effort.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately I needed a couple of tubes last year while on
vacation, so against my better judgment I bought these because they
were the only ones the bike shop had. Thus I was burned again, by
the stem failure problem endemic to this brand for over a decade.

That must have been old stock and from the time when the manufacturer
of all these tubes had a process failure that caused a weak bond.

Quoted message said:

So do not buy Specialized tubes. If you're a bike shop owner,
please do us all a favor and stock another brand instead. Cheng
Shin, for example, or Michelin.

I think your advice is misplaced. The whole stem separation problem
has gone away with more recently supplied tubes.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over from
that era. You may have noticed the self flagellation of some
contributors here who put the blame on the user saying that they
pumped incorrectly or crewed the stem jam nut too tightly. Neither of
these can tear the stem out inadvertently. It takes substantial
effort.

So it's entirely coincidence that those new to the activity tear out far
more valves from tubes than those who have been around for awhile?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole said:

OK, this is really annoying.

Quoted message said:

I went on a MTB ride late this afternoon. Though light was fading we
decided to do one more loop. On the way down I felt my rear tire go
flat. I got out my spare tube and started pumping with my friend's
pump (I had forgotten mine). On removing the pump, I pulled the
valve stem right out of the tube! Because I had patches I decided
to patch the first tube. But on pumping it I discovered the leak
was at the base of the valve stem, unpatchable. It was a slow leak
though, so I decided to pump it and ride on it as far as I could.
Well it lasted most of the way, but by this time it was dark.
Thankfully someone had a light.

Well they are patchable if you carry a Presta tubular tire stem in
your patch kit:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG

Remove the rest of the failed stem as cleanly as possible, wet the
tubular stem mushroom and pop it in the stem hole. You'll need some
sort of wrench to tighten the hex clamp nut and you're done.

Quoted message said:

Guess what brand these tubes were?

Quoted message said:

Surprise -- Specialized!

Of course Specialized is responsible for the quality of products sold
under their name but as we saw with road bicycle tubes, the stem
separation was present in most brands at the time, showing that they
are packaged under different labels by the same manufacturer.

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over from
that era. You may have noticed the self flagellation of some
contributors here who put the blame on the user saying that they
pumped incorrectly or crewed the stem jam nut too tightly. Neither of
these can tear the stem out inadvertently. It takes substantial
effort.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately I needed a couple of tubes last year while on
vacation, so against my better judgment I bought these because they
were the only ones the bike shop had. Thus I was burned again, by
the stem failure problem endemic to this brand for over a decade.

That must have been old stock and from the time when the manufacturer
of all these tubes had a process failure that caused a weak bond.

Quoted message said:

So do not buy Specialized tubes. If you're a bike shop owner,
please do us all a favor and stock another brand instead. Cheng
Shin, for example, or Michelin.

I think your advice is misplaced. The whole stem separation problem
has gone away with more recently supplied tubes.

Jobst Brandt

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems are *far*
more common with people newer to the sport than those who have been around
for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't bad tubes out there; sorry
if I implied that. I was responding to what appeared to be an absolute; that
the cyclist is never at fault for a torn valve. The truth is someplace
in-between. (And yes, I've seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening
valve nuts).

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not rough
on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

"Michael Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems are

*far*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more common with people newer to the sport than those who have been

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't bad tubes out there;

sorry

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if I implied that. I was responding to what appeared to be an absolute;

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cyclist is never at fault for a torn valve. The truth is someplace
in-between. (And yes, I've seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening
valve nuts).

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not rough
on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

Yeah, I haven't put one on in over 20 years. With low pressure mtn bike
tubes I'd rather have the stem end up crooked rather than the stem being
tugged on with the nut tightened down.

Greg

jobst.brandt said:

Well they are patchable if you carry a Presta tubular tire stem in your
patch kit:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG

Remove the rest of the failed stem as cleanly as possible, wet the
tubular stem mushroom and pop it in the stem hole. You'll need some
sort of wrench to tighten the hex clamp nut and you're done.

Why mess with this if it can be avoided by using tubes that don't
have stem failures?

Quoted message said:

Of course Specialized is responsible for the quality of products sold
under their name but as we saw with road bicycle tubes, the stem
separation was present in most brands at the time, showing that they are
packaged under different labels by the same manufacturer.

Specialized is the only brand I've had trouble with, but then it's
the only brand that a lot of shops sell. The failure rate for Specialized
tubes has been near 100% for me.

I've never had trouble with a Michelin tube.

Quoted message said:

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over from
that era.

and...

Quoted message said:

That must have been old stock and from the time when the manufacturer of
all these tubes had a process failure that caused a weak bond.

This is possible but it's not my job to make sure a shop's inventory is up
to date with non-defective merchandise.

Matt O.

Michael Warner said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems are *far*
more common with people newer to the sport than those who have been around
for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't bad tubes out there; sorry
if I implied that. I was responding to what appeared to be an absolute; that
the cyclist is never at fault for a torn valve. The truth is someplace
in-between. (And yes, I've seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening
valve nuts).

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not rough
on the valve stem?

doubt it. other than aiding initial inflation, they serve no purpose
whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

valve nuts are best utilized in the practice of one's throw - the
further away the better. michelin don't even have a threaded stem -
they know what they're doing.

Michael Warner said:

Quoted message said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems
are *far* more common with people newer to the sport than those who
have been around for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't
bad tubes out there; sorry if I implied that. I was responding to
what appeared to be an absolute; that the cyclist is never at fault
for a torn valve. The truth is someplace in-between. (And yes, I've
seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening valve nuts).

Quoted message said:

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not
rough on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

The nut helps keep the stem from submerging into the rim when a
push-on pump head is used, one like the Campagnolo pump head. This is
more a problem with an uninflated or low pressure tube.

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Jobst Brandt

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Well they are patchable if you carry a Presta tubular tire stem in
your patch kit:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tube-failure.html#valve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remove the rest of the failed stem as cleanly as possible, wet the
tubular stem mushroom and pop it in the stem hole. You'll need
some sort of wrench to tighten the hex clamp nut and you're done.

Quoted message said:

Why mess with this if it can be avoided by using tubes that don't
have stem failures?

How do you know the tube you are riding has a failsafe stem.
Besides, why throw and otherwise good tube away if all you need to do
is insert a stem that you can get from any bicycle shop that has
tubular users.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course Specialized is responsible for the quality of products
sold under their name but as we saw with road bicycle tubes, the
stem separation was present in most brands at the time, showing
that they are packaged under different labels by the same
manufacturer.

Quoted message said:

Specialized is the only brand I've had trouble with, but then it's
the only brand that a lot of shops sell. The failure rate for
Specialized tubes has been near 100% for me.

Well, I have had all sorts of them a year or so ago. If you search,
you can find that this was discussed at that time and elicited a
firestorm of flames concerning the knurled nut and poor pumping skill.

Quoted message said:

I've never had trouble with a Michelin tube.

So use them but don't say that only Specialized has stem separations.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over
from that era.

Quoted message said:

and...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That must have been old stock and from the time when the
manufacturer of all these tubes had a process failure that caused a
weak bond.

Quoted message said:

This is possible but it's not my job to make sure a shop's inventory
is up to date with non-defective merchandise.

Or your own inventory of tubes on your shelf or in your reserve pocket.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Michael Warner said:

Quoted message said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems
are *far* more common with people newer to the sport than those who
have been around for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't
bad tubes out there; sorry if I implied that. I was responding to
what appeared to be an absolute; that the cyclist is never at fault
for a torn valve. The truth is someplace in-between. (And yes, I've
seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening valve nuts).

Quoted message said:

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not
rough on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

The nut helps keep the stem from submerging into the rim when a
push-on pump head is used, one like the Campagnolo pump head. This is
more a problem with an uninflated or low pressure tube.

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Yeah, but then people tend to tighten them down again. Then what seems
to happen is that the area around the base of the valve gets pulled
around and stressed when the bike is ridden with low tire pressure -
which is usually a mistake on the rider's part, unless their doing a
type of riding where it makes sense to switch to a much lower pressure
and are unaware of the interactions caused by the presta nut. That's my
hypothesis at least.

Quoted message said:

The nut helps keep the stem from submerging into the rim when a
push-on pump head is used, one like the Campagnolo pump head.

No worries then. I don't use that Italian rubbish :-)

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Nate Knutson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems
> are *far* more common with people newer to the sport than those
> who have been around for a while. That doesn't mean that there
> aren't bad tubes out there; sorry if I implied that. I was
> responding to what appeared to be an absolute; that the cyclist
> is never at fault for a torn valve. The truth is someplace
> in-between. (And yes, I've seen tubes damaged by people
> over-tightening valve nuts).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're
not rough on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on
for ages.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The nut helps keep the stem from submerging into the rim when a
push-on pump head is used, one like the Campagnolo pump head. This
is more a problem with an uninflated or low pressure tube.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but then people tend to tighten them down again. Then what
seems to happen is that the area around the base of the valve gets
pulled around and stressed when the bike is ridden with low tire
pressure - which is usually a mistake on the rider's part, unless
their doing a type of riding where it makes sense to switch to a
much lower pressure and are unaware of the interactions caused by
the Presta nut.

I can only imagine that those who believe in the tiny knurled nut
causing stem separations don't manually pump tires with a frame fit
pump or they wouldn't be so sure the nut has no function. Besides, it
has been around for about 40 years before stem separations showed up.
That was back in the days when people pumped their tires with a Silca
Impero pump.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/silca.html

Quoted message said:

That's my hypothesis at least.

Good you add that.

Jobst Brandt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Well they are patchable if you carry a Presta tubular tire stem in
your patch kit:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tube-failure.html#valve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remove the rest of the failed stem as cleanly as possible, wet the
tubular stem mushroom and pop it in the stem hole. You'll need
some sort of wrench to tighten the hex clamp nut and you're done.

Quoted message said:

Why mess with this if it can be avoided by using tubes that don't
have stem failures?

How do you know the tube you are riding has a failsafe stem.
Besides, why throw and otherwise good tube away if all you need to do
is insert a stem that you can get from any bicycle shop that has
tubular users.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course Specialized is responsible for the quality of products
sold under their name but as we saw with road bicycle tubes, the
stem separation was present in most brands at the time, showing
that they are packaged under different labels by the same
manufacturer.

Quoted message said:

Specialized is the only brand I've had trouble with, but then it's
the only brand that a lot of shops sell. The failure rate for
Specialized tubes has been near 100% for me.

Well, I have had all sorts of them a year or so ago. If you search,
you can find that this was discussed at that time and elicited a
firestorm of flames concerning the knurled nut and poor pumping skill.

Quoted message said:

I've never had trouble with a Michelin tube.

So use them but don't say that only Specialized has stem separations.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fortunately that period is past and your tube may be a left over
from that era.

Quoted message said:

and...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That must have been old stock and from the time when the
manufacturer of all these tubes had a process failure that caused a
weak bond.

Quoted message said:

This is possible but it's not my job to make sure a shop's inventory
is up to date with non-defective merchandise.

Or your own inventory of tubes on your shelf or in your reserve

pocket.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

About 30 years ago when Michelin first started making presta tubes with
the stem vulcanized into them we saw quite a few failures. I think that
they were developed for Michelin's Elan tires which were some of the
first high pressure small cross section clincher tires and were designed
to replace sewups. Some double walled rims had a larger valve stem hole
inside the rim to allow clearance for valve stems with lock nuts.

The Michelin tubes without lock nuts on the stems tended to herniate
into the larger hole and eventually fail. Our quick and dirty solution
was to cut 1" squares from old tubes and punch a hole in the middle with
a paper punch. We slipped these over the valve stem as a reinforcement
before installing the tube. They drastically cut down on failures around
the stems on these tubes.

One trick for pumping up with presta valves is to spit on the rubber
grommet in the Silca hose end or Campy/Silca pump tip. It makes for an
easier fit over the stem (this isn't necessary with some of the newer
pumps with clamp on tips). The other trick is rotate the wheel so that
the valve is at the top before pumping. To remove the pump hold it near
the tip end with one hand and tap it downward with the open palm of the
other hand. A quick forceful downward tap works better than trying to
work it off.

I wonder how many people having problems with stem failure are running
light weight tubes? I run standard Michelin AirStop tubes in most of my
clincher wheels and have never had any problems with them. Also, I have
2 sets of wheels with Specialized presta tubes that I been using since
the early 1990's and they still seem OK.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

Some double walled rims had a larger valve stem hole
inside the rim to allow clearance for valve stems with lock nuts.

Most Rolf and Bontrager rim's I've seen have larger holes inside, too.
I haven't seen many tubes with nutted valves, so I'm wondering if maybe
there's another reason for the larger rim hole?

IME the only tubes I've had trouble with the valve stems separating from
the rubber are sold under the "Specialized" brand. Haven't had any
further problems (in the same wheels) since I stopped buying that brand.

Quoted message said:

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

EXACTLY! And therein lies the problem, because the now-loose nut is buzzing,
so you crank it down to get rid of the noise. The problem isn't caused by
the initial tightening; sorry if that's how it came across. They may
actually be useful initially (during pumping), and I suggest to customers
they can use them at that time, and then remove them so they don't buzz.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Warner said:

Quoted message said:

That's not what I said. I was pointing out that torn valve stems
are *far* more common with people newer to the sport than those who
have been around for a while. That doesn't mean that there aren't
bad tubes out there; sorry if I implied that. I was responding to
what appeared to be an absolute; that the cyclist is never at fault
for a torn valve. The truth is someplace in-between. (And yes, I've
seen tubes damaged by people over-tightening valve nuts).

Quoted message said:

Does using those nuts correctly extend tube life, even if you're not
rough on the valve stem? I haven't bothered putting one on for ages.

The nut helps keep the stem from submerging into the rim when a
push-on pump head is used, one like the Campagnolo pump head. This is
more a problem with an uninflated or low pressure tube.

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Jobst Brandt

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Quoted message said:

EXACTLY! And therein lies the problem, because the now-loose nut is
buzzing, so you crank it down to get rid of the noise. The problem
isn't caused by the initial tightening; sorry if that's how it came
across. They may actually be useful initially (during pumping), and
I suggest to customers they can use them at that time, and then
remove them so they don't buzz.

What? Buzzing? In all the years of riding with stem nuts on Presta
valves, I haven't heard a sound from them, even at brisk speed in the
silence of a tailwind. Besides, the next time I pump that tire on the
road, I want the nut to be in place on the stem of the replacement
tube. There is no reason to throw the nut away other than tossing it
over the appropriate shoulder to prevent attack by vampires.

That is what the whole stem nut story is about, myth and lore.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

EXACTLY! And therein lies the problem, because the now-loose nut is
buzzing, so you crank it down to get rid of the noise. The problem
isn't caused by the initial tightening; sorry if that's how it came
across. They may actually be useful initially (during pumping), and
I suggest to customers they can use them at that time, and then
remove them so they don't buzz.

What? Buzzing? In all the years of riding with stem nuts on Presta
valves, I haven't heard a sound from them, even at brisk speed in the
silence of a tailwind. Besides, the next time I pump that tire on the
road, I want the nut to be in place on the stem of the replacement
tube. There is no reason to throw the nut away other than tossing it
over the appropriate shoulder to prevent attack by vampires.

That is what the whole stem nut story is about, myth and lore.

Oh my. Myth & lore? Doesn't hold water in this case. This isn't hard to
test; you can demonstrate it very easily. Just put a valve nut onto a stem
and bounce it lightly on the ground. If your ears can't hear it, I'd be
quite surprised. And you'd obviously be *very* surprised at the number of
customers we have who bring in their bikes for mystery noises which turn out
to be one... valve nuts buzzing.

Anyone doubting this should try the experiment themselves.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

The claim that screwing the knurled nut down snugly by hand is what
separates valve stems doesn't hold up when tested. After manually
tightening the nut and inflating the tire to 100psi, the nut will
again be loose and free to turn, inflation pressure exerting more
force than thumb and forefinger can generate with the knurled nut.

Quoted message said:

EXACTLY! And therein lies the problem, because the now-loose nut is
buzzing, so you crank it down to get rid of the noise. The problem
isn't caused by the initial tightening; sorry if that's how it came
across. They may actually be useful initially (during pumping), and
I suggest to customers they can use them at that time, and then
remove them so they don't buzz.

What? Buzzing? In all the years of riding with stem nuts on Presta
valves, I haven't heard a sound from them, even at brisk speed in the
silence of a tailwind. Besides, the next time I pump that tire on the
road, I want the nut to be in place on the stem of the replacement
tube. There is no reason to throw the nut away other than tossing it
over the appropriate shoulder to prevent attack by vampires.

That is what the whole stem nut story is about, myth and lore.

Jobst Brandt

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

EXACTLY! And therein lies the problem, because the now-loose nut is
buzzing, so you crank it down to get rid of the noise. The problem
isn't caused by the initial tightening; sorry if that's how it came
across. They may actually be useful initially (during pumping), and
I suggest to customers they can use them at that time, and then
remove them so they don't buzz.

What? Buzzing? In all the years of riding with stem nuts on Presta
valves, I haven't heard a sound from them, even at brisk speed in the
silence of a tailwind. Besides, the next time I pump that tire on the
road, I want the nut to be in place on the stem of the replacement
tube. There is no reason to throw the nut away other than tossing it
over the appropriate shoulder to prevent attack by vampires.

That is what the whole stem nut story is about, myth and lore.

Oh my. Myth & lore? Doesn't hold water in this case. This isn't hard to
test; you can demonstrate it very easily. Just put a valve nut onto a stem
and bounce it lightly on the ground.

I just did. Didn't hear a thing.

Greg