Spoke head washers... falling apart?

[Ron Ruff]

I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.

Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...

 

[richard]

A shop ought to be able to order them for you...

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
> the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
> split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
> washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
> supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
> in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>
> Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
> wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
> formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
> use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>
> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...
>

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
> the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
> split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
> washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
> supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
> in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>
> Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
> wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
> formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
> use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>
> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...

need new washers, we have them...interesting tho, I have used lots of
them and have not seen them break, brass..

 

[Earl Bollinger]

"Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
> the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
> split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
> washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
> supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
> in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>
> Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
> wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
> formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
> use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>
> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...
>

If you have a radio control model airplane/car/boat hobby shop (even a model
trains hobby shop) nearby, you can get some small washers from them no
problem.

 

[[email protected]]

On 29 Dec 2006 00:57:26 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
>the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
>split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
>washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
>supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
>in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>
>Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
>wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
>formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
>use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>
>Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...

Dear Ron,

Be sure to stress-relieve the new washers.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Ron Ruff]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> need new washers, we have them...interesting tho, I have used lots of
> them and have not seen them break, brass..

Maybe part of the same environment that destroys barend shifters in
short time. I'm in dry NM now... thankfully. There doesn't seem to be
corrosion though, on the washers or hub. I'm guessing that the size
mismatch is so large that they bent too far into a cone shape. 2.6mm
hole with a 1.8mm spoke...

In what situations do you like to use them, Peter? Would it be a bad
idea to go without washers at this point?

Earl Bollinger wrote:
> If you have a radio control model airplane/car/boat hobby shop (even a model
> trains hobby shop) nearby, you can get some small washers from them no
> problem.

Good idea... but the nearest one is 85 miles away. I guess a hardware
store wouldn't carry anything similar? I basically don't want to wait...

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On 29 Dec 2006 00:57:26 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
>> the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
>> split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
>> washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
>> supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
>> in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>>
>> Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
>> wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
>> formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
>> use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>>
>> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> Be sure to stress-relieve the new washers.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

actually, that's right!

 

[jim beam]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I went to replace a rim today, and when I moved the spokes several of
> the spoke-head washers actually broke in two. Others are obviously
> split. In case you don't know what they are, they are tiny brass
> washers (made by DT) that go between the head of the spoke and the hub,
> supposedly for the purpose of improving the fit. I'm using 1.8mm spokes
> in a hub with large holes, so I thought it was a good idea.
>
> Is this normal? I'm a little bit bummed because I don't have any extra
> wheels, nor little washers to replace the broken ones. The spokes are
> formed with the washers in place and the fit is not so good if I don't
> use them. So I either wait until I can get new ones, or go with out...
>
> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks...
>
cold worked brass is well known for stress corrosion cracks - and that's
the kind of washer you have here. what are you using for cleaning?

 

[Ron Ruff]

jim beam wrote:
> the kind of washer you have here. what are you using for cleaning?

Uh... cleaning...? Hmmm... I guess Dawn and water, back when I used to
ride in the rain a lot... in Hawaii.

BTW, the spokes on either side of the flange were easy to identify by
the elbow bends. I went ahead and rebuilt them without the washers...
now I'll see how well the spokes like being bent to a new
configuration. They went for ~10k miles with no breaks and no truing on
the old build (WS AE15s).

I increased the tension a little... ~115kg +- 20kg. The variation
seemed necessary to get rid of the distortion at the joint and make it
true. Hopefully the tension is not too high for an Aerohead. Once I get
a tire on it will drop a bit...

Those Aerohead rims are light! Only 411g for the non-OC... 98g lighter
than the CXP21 it replaced.

 

[Ron Ruff]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I increased the tension a little... ~115kg +- 20kg. The variation
> seemed necessary to get rid of the distortion at the joint and make it
> true.

Or not... I just spent another half hour playing with it and got the
variation down to 105kg +-8kg.