spoke length and threadlock

smokva said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

Oh, it'll work. You will have some threads showing, though. But you
should be able to find 292s at least for the left side.

Quoted message said:

My second question is about therads on spokes. I'm nost sure should I
grease them or put some theradlock on them (I have Locite 243 and
Loctite 511 in my toolbox).

I use oil or grease (vegetable oil in the house, since my wife can't stand
the smell of most petroleum oils -- I usually use canola. Linseed oil
will get sticky later, and I don't want that.)

Quoted message said:

wheel, but I'm afraid it'll also be easier for the spokes to come loose.

They should not come loose. If they do, it's a result of an uneven build,
too little tension, or lack of stress-relieving. But you should be able
to re-tension the wheel and you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

With the threadlock I'm afraid it could

get hard before I finish my job

Quoted message said:

truing, stress relieving, and retruing (if needed).

Personally, I think threadlock is a bad idea for the simple reason that
you may need to re-true the wheel later. In particular, if you bang the
wheel up in a crash or by hitting something, a quick field-retruing can
get you home, but only if you can turn the nipples without just winding up
the spoke.

I'm also afraid it

Quoted message said:

could make it hard to retrue in the future. I know both loctite 243
(medium strength) and 511 (low strength) can be disassembled with hand
tools in normal use, but never used it with spokes before so wonna
double check here.

Either is going to make wind-up problems a lot worse.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

smokva said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

If you give the brand of rim and hub you are planning on using,
someone that has built that wheel might have direct experience.

Paul Kopit said:

If you give the brand of rim and hub you are planning on using,
someone that has built that wheel might have direct experience.

Rim is DT RR1.1 and the hub is DT 240s (rear, shimano rotor).
Will build 32X3, both sides. Nipples 12mm.
Spokes I'll use are DT Revolution 2.0/1.5

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case
where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

Oh, it'll work. You will have some threads showing, though. But you
should be able to find 292s at least for the left side.

That's what is the problem...local stores are awful, I can't find even a simple
thing like a spoke of desired length. On line orders are very expensive and
would overpay the spokes by 3 times...no thanks. That's what you get when you
live in [censored] country like I do.
I guess I'll buy 290mm and play with nipple lengths for the left side. I could
neutralize 2mm shorter spokes with 2mm longer nipples on that side 🙂) I just
hope I can find 14mm nipples 🙂)

Quoted message said:

I use oil or grease (vegetable oil in the house, since my wife can't stand
the smell of most petroleum oils -- I usually use canola. Linseed oil
will get sticky later, and I don't want that.)

I don't have that sort of problem 🙂)

Quoted message said:

They should not come loose. If they do, it's a result of an uneven build,
too little tension, or lack of stress-relieving. But you should be able
to re-tension the wheel and you'll be OK.

Yes, you couldn't be more right.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I think threadlock is a bad idea for the simple reason that
you may need to re-true the wheel later. In particular, if you bang the
wheel up in a crash or by hitting something, a quick field-retruing can
get you home, but only if you can turn the nipples without just winding up
the spoke.

That's exact what I was thinking. I just wasn't sure how much can threadlock
make it harder to retrue later. Maybe it ain't souch a big deal and spokes can
be easy retensioned after. I was hoping for some expirainace answer here.

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:17:25 +0000 (UTC), smokva

may have said:

I have 2 questions...

First one is about spoke length.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

Probably yes. Use good nipples.

Quoted message said:

My second question is about therads on spokes. I'm nost sure should I grease
them or put some theradlock on them

Lube them. Don't use Loctite of any type. It is important to be able
to retrue the wheel later, and Loctite will interfere with that.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case
where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

Probably yes. Use good nipples.

It came to my mind that I could use 2mm longer nipples on the left to eliminate
2mm shorter spokes.

Quoted message said:

Lube them. Don't use Loctite of any type. It is important to be able
to retrue the wheel later, and Loctite will interfere with that.

Exact what I was thinking....will grease them in the end.

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

smokva said:

I have 2 questions...

First one is about spoke length.
DT Swiss calculatore gives me these results:
Spoke length
-precise: left-292.20 mm right-290.90 mm
-rounded (incl. Corrections): left-291 mm right-290 mm
I wasn't able to find desired spokes in 291/292 mm so I bought 290 for both
sides. I'll use DT Revolution 2.0/1.5. I have found that when thinner spokes
are used, the more the calculated spoke length can be rounded down and
vice-versa!!!
So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

My second question is about therads on spokes. I'm nost sure should I grease
them or put some theradlock on them (I have Locite 243 and Loctite 511 in my
toolbox). If I grease them it'll be easierto build the wheel, but I'm afraid
it'll also be easier for the spokes to come loose. With the threadlock I'm
afraid it could get hard before I finish my job truing, stress relieving, and
retruing (if needed). I'm also afraid it could make it hard to retrue in the
future. I know both loctite 243 (medium strength) and 511 (low strength) can be
disassembled with hand tools in normal use, but never used it with spokes
before so wonna double check here.

They will not come loose if you have adequate tension so use
an oil and let it drip over the thread on to the face of the
nipple against the rim, too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

smokva wrote:
-snip-

Quoted message said:

It came to my mind that I could use 2mm longer nipples on the left to eliminate
2mm shorter spokes.

No functional difference.
The depth of thread is the same on short and long nipples.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

smokva said:

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case
where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

Oh, it'll work. You will have some threads showing, though. But you
should be able to find 292s at least for the left side.

That's what is the problem...local stores are awful, I can't find even a simple
thing like a spoke of desired length. On line orders are very expensive and
would overpay the spokes by 3 times...no thanks. That's what you get when you
live in [censored] country like I do.
I guess I'll buy 290mm and play with nipple lengths for the left side. I could
neutralize 2mm shorter spokes with 2mm longer nipples on that side 🙂) I just
hope I can find 14mm nipples 🙂)

Quoted message said:

I use oil or grease (vegetable oil in the house, since my wife can't stand
the smell of most petroleum oils -- I usually use canola. Linseed oil
will get sticky later, and I don't want that.)

I don't have that sort of problem 🙂)

Quoted message said:

They should not come loose. If they do, it's a result of an uneven build,
too little tension, or lack of stress-relieving. But you should be able
to re-tension the wheel and you'll be OK.

Yes, you couldn't be more right.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I think threadlock is a bad idea for the simple reason that
you may need to re-true the wheel later. In particular, if you bang the
wheel up in a crash or by hitting something, a quick field-retruing can
get you home, but only if you can turn the nipples without just winding up
the spoke.

That's exact what I was thinking. I just wasn't sure how much can threadlock
make it harder to retrue later.

heat frees them up for truing easily enough, but as mentioned, field
repairs are less easy. i have loctite [used the wicking variety] on
some of my wheels, and so far, they're holding true perfectly, something
that's not always the case with dished rears. don't think there's any
witchcraft to be scared of here. if field repairs are anticipated and
that much of a concern, bring a butane cigarette lighter with you.
frees them up just fine.

Quoted message said:

Maybe it ain't souch a big deal and spokes can
be easy retensioned after. I was hoping for some expirainace answer here.

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

A Muzi said:

No functional difference.
The depth of thread is the same on short and long nipples.

Are you sure about that?
The on-line calculator on DtSwiss site will reduce the length of spokes if I
choose longer nipples in applet? I guess it is a bug then.

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

DT is unusual because their 16mm nipples have about 1mm more thread
length than their 14mm nipples.

someone said:

Quoted message said:

No functional difference. The depth of thread is the same on short
and long nipples.

Quoted message said:

Are you sure about that? The on-line calculator on DtSwiss site
will reduce the length of spokes if I choose longer nipples in
applet? I guess it is a bug then.

I haven't used 1" spoke nipples in a long time but all the ones I used
had no more thread in them than short nipples, the long end being a
smooth threadless bore.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My second question is about therads on spokes. I'm nost sure should I grease
them or put some theradlock on them (I have Locite 243 and Loctite 511 in my
toolbox).

grease or oil is what you want. You do not want to put loctite on them.

Quoted message said:

If I grease them it'll be easierto build the wheel, but I'm afraid
it'll also be easier for the spokes to come loose.

If properly built, they will not come loose.

Quoted message said:

With the threadlock I'm
afraid it could get hard before I finish my job truing, stress relieving, and
retruing (if needed). I'm also afraid it could make it hard to retrue in the
future. I know both loctite 243 (medium strength) and 511 (low strength) can

be

Quoted message said:

disassembled with hand tools in normal use, but never used it with spokes
before so wonna double check here.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Just say no to loctite. There are times when you
should be using loctite, building wheels is not one of them.
------------
Alex

In article <1109224934.72839a14d5d4f2e6a6f7e139ba4fd8d4@teranews>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

heat frees them up for truing easily enough, but as mentioned, field
repairs are less easy. i have loctite [used the wicking variety] on
some of my wheels, and so far, they're holding true perfectly, something
that's not always the case with dished rears. don't think there's any
witchcraft to be scared of here. if field repairs are anticipated and
that much of a concern, bring a butane cigarette lighter with you.
frees them up just fine.

Doesn't sound too bad, but why bother? If you build the wheels properly
loctite is not necessary. I can also see clumsy folks, like myself, burning
a hole in a tire.
------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <1109224934.72839a14d5d4f2e6a6f7e139ba4fd8d4@teranews>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

heat frees them up for truing easily enough, but as mentioned, field
repairs are less easy. i have loctite [used the wicking variety] on
some of my wheels, and so far, they're holding true perfectly, something
that's not always the case with dished rears. don't think there's any
witchcraft to be scared of here. if field repairs are anticipated and
that much of a concern, bring a butane cigarette lighter with you.
frees them up just fine.

Doesn't sound too bad, but why bother? If you build the wheels properly
loctite is not necessary. I can also see clumsy folks, like myself, burning
a hole in a tire.
------------
Alex

Dear Alex,

While I agree that it sounds like a lot of fuss . . .

a) The tire is on the far side of the rim from the nipple.

b) Folks who can "build the wheels properly" can probably
keep a cigarette lighter flame on the far side of the rim.

Carl Fogel

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Dear Alex,
While I agree that it sounds like a lot of fuss . . .
a) The tire is on the far side of the rim from the nipple.
b) Folks who can "build the wheels properly" can probably
keep a cigarette lighter flame on the far side of the rim.

I'm sure I could figure out a way to do it without even trying.
At least that is what usually happens. 🙂
-------------
Alex

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:54:38 GMT, [email hidden] may

have said:

I haven't used 1" spoke nipples in a long time but all the ones I used
had no more thread in them than short nipples, the long end being a
smooth threadless bore.

Not unlike many Usenet conversations, then.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem." - Seneca

smokva said:

I have 2 questions...

First one is about spoke length.
DT Swiss calculatore gives me these results:
Spoke length
-precise: left-292.20 mm right-290.90 mm
-rounded (incl. Corrections): left-291 mm right-290 mm
I wasn't able to find desired spokes in 291/292 mm so I bought 290 for both
sides. I'll use DT Revolution 2.0/1.5. I have found that when thinner spokes
are used, the more the calculated spoke length can be rounded down and
vice-versa!!!
So...will I be on the safe side with 290mm for the left side in this case where
precise measure is more than 292mm?

With the same rim model, spoke count and lacing pattern and similar
hubs (Campagnolo OS and Dura-Ace 7800), my notes reflect thatI've been
using 290 for the right and 292 for the rear. The spokes I've used are
from Wheelsmith and are approximately 1 mm longer for the marked size
than DT spokes. There's likely enough fudge-factor to use the same
lengths from DTin this instance however.

As noted above, I expect you'll find 290 mm Revolutions to be adequate
for the right, but well short of ideal for the left flange. It strikes
me as misordering of priorities to employ the compromises discussed
elsewhere in this thread (short spokes with long nipples on the left)
for a wheel built with _parts_ of such high cost. I encourage you to
get spokes for the left side that are a more appropriate length.

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

No functional difference.
The depth of thread is the same on short and long nipples.

smokva said:

Are you sure about that?
The on-line calculator on DtSwiss site will reduce the length of spokes if I
choose longer nipples in applet? I guess it is a bug then.

Sure, it would be possible to make such a thing.

But all the ones I know just have longer lead before the thread:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/NIPPLES.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971