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Spoke tension

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8 November 2006
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23 November 2006
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  1. Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Thanks!

    Joseph

  2. Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?


    \

    http://tinyurl.com/yavz9b

    (Ebay auction)

    Frankly, I think you'd probably get better results with the current
    Mavic tubular rim. I was amazed at how much more durable they are
    compared to all my old rims, including GP-4, "new" GP-4 etc. About the
    only old rim I have that seems to be really durable is a Camagnolo
    victory, but I only have a front wheel with that rim. My brother still
    rides a set of old Mavic SSC rims among others. They were pretty
    amazing in their day.

    I don't remember that particular Ambrosio or when they were made, or
    their weight. You really need to know that before choosing the spokes.
    Then again in the old days everything was 14 gage and tight.

  3. bill said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?


    \

    http://tinyurl.com/yavz9b

    (Ebay auction)

    Nice, but I need track hubs.

    Quoted message said:

    Frankly, I think you'd probably get better results with the current
    Mavic tubular rim. I was amazed at how much more durable they are
    compared to all my old rims, including GP-4, "new" GP-4 etc. About the
    only old rim I have that seems to be really durable is a Camagnolo
    victory, but I only have a front wheel with that rim. My brother still
    rides a set of old Mavic SSC rims among others. They were pretty
    amazing in their day.

    This bike is a vintage one, so I am trying to keep it mostly period (at
    least for high-visibility items). Plus I like the shiny sliver finish
    never marred by a brake shoe!

    I had some 32 hole Victory Crono's once that I pulled about 10 eyelets
    out of on a big hill stomp once. I also have some Record Strada's that
    have been to hell and back with no problems. I also had some GL280's
    that seemed to handle more than I could dish out. But I have never used
    any modern tubular rims. I suppose they are better as a whole, but
    again, I need period!

    Quoted message said:

    I don't remember that particular Ambrosio or when they were made, or
    their weight. You really need to know that before choosing the spokes.
    Then again in the old days everything was 14 gage and tight.

    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    Joseph

  4. Quoted message said:

    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    Butted spokes will make a more durable wheel (less likely for spokes to
    go slack). As for tension, follow the advice in The Bicycle Wheel:
    Tighten the spokes until squeezing pairs of spokes all around the wheel
    causes the wheel to develop a slight wavy shape. Then back off about 1
    turn on all spokes.

    Art Harris

  5. SNIP

    Quoted message said:


    This bike is a vintage one, so I am trying to keep it mostly period (at
    least for high-visibility items). Plus I like the shiny sliver finish
    never marred by a brake shoe!

    OK ok I understand. (Actually I buy the least expensive version of the
    contemporary Mavic, which is all silver).

    Quoted message said:


    I had some 32 hole Victory Crono's once that I pulled about 10 eyelets
    out of on a big hill stomp once. I also have some Record Strada's that
    have been to hell and back with no problems. I also had some GL280's
    that seemed to handle more than I could dish out. But I have never used
    any modern tubular rims. I suppose they are better as a whole, but
    again, I need period!

    I have some 280 and 330 NOS in my bag of tricks. They are so light.
    SNIP

    Quoted message said:


    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    That sounds pretty substantial to me. I think the GP4 was 400.

    Quoted message said:


    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    I've built both ways. I've built probably 2 dozen pairs of wheels in my
    life. My biggest problem always seems to be fatigue. Even if you do
    all the "right things" with avoiding spoke windup, "stress-relieving,"
    spoke alignment etc, it seems there are always new problems to crop up.
    Not every wheelset--but from time to time.

    Without a doubt, the 14 ga straights are easier to true and less apt to
    go pretzel when a spoke breaks. Yet the theory tends to be behind the
    14/15. I've even built a wheel with different gages left and right on
    a rear wheel (my current one is 15/16 left and 14/15 right. It seems to
    balance the spoke stress. Next time I'll make the right side straight
    gage so that all the nipples are the same!). I think 15/16 is probably
    too light for a rim that heavy. This isn't from any calcs--just from
    experience of what seems reasonable.

    14 gage straight are more available.

    I've always fatigued at the elbow or at a nick somewhere, I've never
    failed at the nipple end of the spoke. It seems to me that looking over
    the problem wheels, these elbow failures are often possibly caused when
    the spoke touches the flange as well as the hole. In other words only
    the outside spokes. There must be a big bending moment developing in
    that span due to the cross at midlength or something. There must be a
    way to defet this problem, and on most of my wheels it hasn't happened.
    ) That's what my last problem wheel exhibited. I can't remember for
    sure if I've fatigued inside spokes as well. Probably.

    The other thing I've fatigued are the rims in way of the holes--on
    non-eyelet rims. But yours are full eyelet so no problem hopefully.

  6. Quoted message said:
    bill said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?


    \

    http://tinyurl.com/yavz9b

    (Ebay auction)

    Nice, but I need track hubs.

    Quoted message said:

    Frankly, I think you'd probably get better results with the current
    Mavic tubular rim. I was amazed at how much more durable they are
    compared to all my old rims, including GP-4, "new" GP-4 etc. About the
    only old rim I have that seems to be really durable is a Camagnolo
    victory, but I only have a front wheel with that rim. My brother still
    rides a set of old Mavic SSC rims among others. They were pretty
    amazing in their day.

    This bike is a vintage one, so I am trying to keep it mostly period (at
    least for high-visibility items). Plus I like the shiny sliver finish
    never marred by a brake shoe!

    I had some 32 hole Victory Crono's once that I pulled about 10 eyelets
    out of on a big hill stomp once. I also have some Record Strada's that
    have been to hell and back with no problems. I also had some GL280's
    that seemed to handle more than I could dish out. But I have never used
    any modern tubular rims. I suppose they are better as a whole, but
    again, I need period!

    Quoted message said:

    I don't remember that particular Ambrosio or when they were made, or
    their weight. You really need to know that before choosing the spokes.
    Then again in the old days everything was 14 gage and tight.

    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    IMO, 14/15ga in the rear, 15ga in the front.

    And, IMO, do buy a Park tensiometer.

  7. Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Thanks!

    Joseph

    Look for 90 to 100 kgf for these wheels, any wheel, AAMOF.Spoke gauge
    doesn't matter, tension is tension.

  8. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Stainless steel double butted spokes, brass nipples. No
    question about it.

    Get a copy of a book called The_Bicycle_Wheel, by
    Jobst Brandt. Read the building instructions through
    before starting the build.

    --
    Michael Press

  9. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    Butted.

    --
    Michael Press

  10. Ozark Bicycle said:
    Quoted message said:
    bill said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    > rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    > replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    > are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    > online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.
    >
    > NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    > have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    > weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    > those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?
    \

    http://tinyurl.com/yavz9b

    (Ebay auction)

    Nice, but I need track hubs.

    Quoted message said:

    Frankly, I think you'd probably get better results with the current
    Mavic tubular rim. I was amazed at how much more durable they are
    compared to all my old rims, including GP-4, "new" GP-4 etc. About the
    only old rim I have that seems to be really durable is a Camagnolo
    victory, but I only have a front wheel with that rim. My brother still
    rides a set of old Mavic SSC rims among others. They were pretty
    amazing in their day.

    This bike is a vintage one, so I am trying to keep it mostly period (at
    least for high-visibility items). Plus I like the shiny sliver finish
    never marred by a brake shoe!

    I had some 32 hole Victory Crono's once that I pulled about 10 eyelets
    out of on a big hill stomp once. I also have some Record Strada's that
    have been to hell and back with no problems. I also had some GL280's
    that seemed to handle more than I could dish out. But I have never used
    any modern tubular rims. I suppose they are better as a whole, but
    again, I need period!

    Quoted message said:

    I don't remember that particular Ambrosio or when they were made, or
    their weight. You really need to know that before choosing the spokes.
    Then again in the old days everything was 14 gage and tight.

    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    IMO, 14/15ga in the rear, 15ga in the front.

    And, IMO, do buy a Park tensiometer.

    I'm also going to get a good spoke wrench instead of the nipple-killer
    I have now. But how do I know what size? The Park Tools web site says
    they are color coded for easy id, but that doesn't help me in my
    ignorance.

    Joseph

  11. Quoted message said:
    Ozark Bicycle said:
    Quoted message said:

    bill wrote:
    > [email hidden] wrote:
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    > > rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    > > replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    > > are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    > > online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.
    > >
    > > NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    > > have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    > > weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    > > those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?
    > \
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/yavz9b
    >
    > (Ebay auction)
    >

    Nice, but I need track hubs.

    > Frankly, I think you'd probably get better results with the current
    > Mavic tubular rim. I was amazed at how much more durable they are
    > compared to all my old rims, including GP-4, "new" GP-4 etc. About the
    > only old rim I have that seems to be really durable is a Camagnolo
    > victory, but I only have a front wheel with that rim. My brother still
    > rides a set of old Mavic SSC rims among others. They were pretty
    > amazing in their day.

    This bike is a vintage one, so I am trying to keep it mostly period (at
    least for high-visibility items). Plus I like the shiny sliver finish
    never marred by a brake shoe!

    I had some 32 hole Victory Crono's once that I pulled about 10 eyelets
    out of on a big hill stomp once. I also have some Record Strada's that
    have been to hell and back with no problems. I also had some GL280's
    that seemed to handle more than I could dish out. But I have never used
    any modern tubular rims. I suppose they are better as a whole, but
    again, I need period!

    > I don't remember that particular Ambrosio or when they were made, or
    > their weight. You really need to know that before choosing the spokes.
    > Then again in the old days everything was 14 gage and tight.

    The Synthesis is allegedly a super strong rim. With 36 double eyelets
    and 430 grams each I should hope they are strong! 70's-80's I believe.

    While vinatge, this is to be a daily rider, so I am open to all spoke
    suggestions, and other practical things like sealed bb, etc are
    probably going to be used. So should I go with 14 ga straight, or
    butted?

    IMO, 14/15ga in the rear, 15ga in the front.

    And, IMO, do buy a Park tensiometer.

    I'm also going to get a good spoke wrench instead of the nipple-killer
    I have now. But how do I know what size? The Park Tools web site says
    they are color coded for easy id, but that doesn't help me in my
    ignorance.

    Joseph

    Park black spoke wrench, use 14/15 , brass nipps all around, get the
    Park Tensionometer, nice tool for your use. DT or Sapim spokes..

  12. Michael Press said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Stainless steel double butted spokes, brass nipples. No
    question about it.

    make that "branded" stainless steel. there's plenty of unbranded stuff
    out there that's stainless and it doesn't last.

    Quoted message said:


    Get a copy of a book called The_Bicycle_Wheel, by
    Jobst Brandt. Read the building instructions through
    before starting the build.


    to the o.p., that book will tell you how to build a wheel, but be
    careful about some of its content. for instance, ignore the bit about
    tension as high as the rim can bear - it's too high and it'll give
    increased likelihood of rim taco and cause rim cracking. use a
    tensiometer with the tensions peter gave you. and if you want to have
    the rim hole line up with the hub label, read the gerd schraner book -
    it tells you how to do it - the brandt book doesn't.

    http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=The+Art+of+Wheelbuilding&vendorCode=BOOK&major=3&minor=1

    be very careful with the brandt materials theory bit too - that's /way/
    messed up.

  13. Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Thanks!

    Joseph

    Hi Everybody,

    Thanks for all the input.

    I just ordered a black Park wrench, the Park tension meter, and 75 DT
    Competition double butted spokes with brass nipples. The LBS didn't
    have any of that stuff! I'll do the lacing at home, and I can borrow
    the good truing stand at the LBS for the final adjustments. I'll shoot
    for 95 kgf rather than risking the taco effect. Particularly with such
    (hopefully) strong rims, tightening until the rim is about to taco
    doesn't sound wise to me. Particularly with my novice feel for how
    things are developing.

    Joseph

  14. Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    You might find this, written by Jim Langley, helpful:

    http://tinyurl.com/yd67qr

    Some of the info is dated (e.g., "Mavic makes the best rims"😉, but the
    basics are sound.

  15. Ozark Bicycle said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    You might find this, written by Jim Langley, helpful:

    http://tinyurl.com/yd67qr

    Some of the info is dated (e.g., "Mavic makes the best rims"😉, but the
    basics are sound.


    reading that reminds me - this business about "correcting the spoke
    line" is questionable. as you can see in this pic,

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/104463818/

    the hub holes deform during the build. "correcting the spoke line"
    before this process has occurred is premature and will leave the spoke
    elbow with the wrong resultant angle. the spoke elbow comes pre-formed
    with the best resultant angle and the hub flange is canted and drilled
    also to give the best resultant angle. it may look odd when first
    laced, but when fully tensioned, the net result is optimized. i
    therefore say leave the spoke elbow angle alone - do /not/ bend.

  16. jim beam said:


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/104463818/

    the hub holes deform during the build. "correcting the spoke line"
    before this process has occurred is premature and will leave the spoke
    elbow with the wrong resultant angle. the spoke elbow comes pre-formed
    with the best resultant angle and the hub flange is canted and drilled
    also to give the best resultant angle. it may look odd when first
    laced, but when fully tensioned, the net result is optimized. i
    therefore say leave the spoke elbow angle alone - do /not/ bend.

    I wonder how long it takes to get that way. I've always noticed this
    too, but I've never loosened and examined a new wheel to see how much
    of that plastic forming takes place before it is even riddenn

  17. jim beam said:
    Ozark Bicycle said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be good-weather daily
    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a rim
    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These wheels
    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read the various
    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to me.

    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista hubs. I
    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to be 302mm. I
    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting one of
    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    You might find this, written by Jim Langley, helpful:

    http://tinyurl.com/yd67qr

    Some of the info is dated (e.g., "Mavic makes the best rims"😉, but the
    basics are sound.


    reading that reminds me - this business about "correcting the spoke
    line" is questionable. as you can see in this pic,

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/104463818/

    the hub holes deform during the build. "correcting the spoke line"
    before this process has occurred is premature and will leave the spoke
    elbow with the wrong resultant angle. the spoke elbow comes pre-formed
    with the best resultant angle and the hub flange is canted and drilled
    also to give the best resultant angle. it may look odd when first
    laced, but when fully tensioned, the net result is optimized. i
    therefore say leave the spoke elbow angle alone - do /not/ bend.

    I agree; I do not do that, although many builders do. At the very
    least, it seems unnecessary.

    That said, I think the Langley article can be useful to a beginner; he
    writes pretty clearly and the pictures are instructive.

  18. jim beam said:
    Ozark Bicycle said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    reading that reminds me - this business about "correcting the spoke
    line" is questionable. as you can see in this pic,

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/104463818/

    the hub holes deform during the build. "correcting the spoke line"
    before this process has occurred is premature and will leave the spoke
    elbow with the wrong resultant angle. the spoke elbow comes pre-formed
    with the best resultant angle and the hub flange is canted and drilled
    also to give the best resultant angle. it may look odd when first
    laced, but when fully tensioned, the net result is optimized. i
    therefore say leave the spoke elbow angle alone - do /not/ bend.

    Personally I've always been of the opinion that bending the elbow
    beyond the point required and then back to the correct position was the
    way to go. The theory was the it would help remove the residual bending
    stress in the spoke and make it conform better to different hub flange
    shapes.

    Since my wheels last my way must be correct..

    Back to the OP .. just do it.. the only thing you can really screw up
    is to over tighten. If your not happy do it again... and again and
    again.

    Everyone who has ever built a wheel had to build their first wheel at
    some point... I would like to give the whole wheel building as a zen
    exercise speach but it only really works live, (for best results add a
    beer).

  19. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I am going to build up some wheels for my soon to be


    good-weather daily

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    rider. I have only built a few wheels before, and that was a


    rim

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    replacement type deal that was pretty straight forward. These


    wheels

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are supposed to last, and I want to do it right. I've read


    the various

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    online references, but spoke tension is still not clear to


    me.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    NOS Ambrosio 36 hole Synthesis rims, Gipiemme Special Pista


    hubs. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have not decided upon spokes yet, but they are all going to


    be 302mm. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    weigh 215lbs and the roads are rough. Should I bother getting


    one of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    those Park tensionometers, and if I do, what should it say?

    Thanks!

    Joseph

    Hi Everybody,

    Thanks for all the input.

    I just ordered a black Park wrench, the Park tension meter, and


    75 DT

    Quoted message said:

    Competition double butted spokes with brass nipples. The LBS


    didn't

    Quoted message said:

    have any of that stuff! I'll do the lacing at home, and I can


    borrow

    Quoted message said:

    the good truing stand at the LBS for the final adjustments.


    I'll shoot

    Quoted message said:

    for 95 kgf rather than risking the taco effect. Particularly


    with such

    Quoted message said:

    (hopefully) strong rims, tightening until the rim is about to


    taco

    Quoted message said:

    doesn't sound wise to me. Particularly with my novice feel for


    how

    Quoted message said:

    things are developing.

    I don't think there is any risk of a taco effect below 130 kgf
    based on my experience, not on a 425 gram rim 36 hole rim. In
    fact, I doubt you will be able to keep these rims true under
    about 110 kgf at your weight without some sort of thread locker
    (which I prefer not to use). I am 215lbs and ride 32 hole
    Velocity Aeroheads (400 gram clincher). I have to run over 110
    kgf just to keep them true. Same goes with my Open Pro rims. YMMV
    with a track wheel where the tensions are more balanced, but on a
    road wheel, 95kgf would not cut it for me. -- Jay Beattie.

  20. Bill Platt writes:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/104463818/

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the hub holes deform during the build. "correcting the spoke line"
    before this process has occurred is premature and will leave the
    spoke elbow with the wrong resultant angle. the spoke elbow comes
    pre-formed with the best resultant angle and the hub flange is
    canted and drilled also to give the best resultant angle. it may
    look odd when first laced, but when fully tensioned, the net result
    is optimized. i therefore say leave the spoke elbow angle alone -
    do /not/ bend.

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder how long it takes to get that way. I've always noticed this
    too, but I've never loosened and examined a new wheel to see how
    much of that plastic forming takes place before it is even ridden.

    It happens immediately when a spoke is tensioned as the flange
    conforms to the shape of the spoke elbow which remains unchanged from
    tensioning. Unspoking a tensioned wheel that has not been ridden
    shows the spoke seating effect in its final condition. In use, spokes
    do not increase in tension so there is no further deformation of
    flange holes.

    The spoke line is best improved manually without the hazard of
    damaging flanges by hammering. This is more apparent with large
    flange hubs. Not improving the spoke line leaves spokes with higher
    residual stress that is not easily removed otherwise. That is the
    purpose of this step. That spokes do not lie flat against the flange
    is apparent after tensioning and should be corrected.

    Jobst Brandt

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