Stoves for Brews

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart Robinson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have been reading the 'What does you day sack weight' thread with interest.

Whats the overall opinion of the usefulness of lightweight alcohol stoves, such as the Trangia 28
or any of the homemade pop can stoves for doing brews or pots of pasta etc in the mountains ?

I have a 28 and find it OK except in windy conditions. You definitely need to carry some heavy foil
to make a windshield out of in case it is windy.

I sometimes carry the 28 and sometimes a MSR Pocket Rocket with 100g cartridge and a Primus Litech
Trek Kettle. Again that needs a windshield in windy conditions. The kettle is great and being a
smaller diameter than the Trangia is easier to pack. The 100g cartridge easily fits inside it.

primus.seproduct 731720.htmlOpen ↗ nevisport.comdeptdetail 4 deptdetail id 79 product idOpen ↗
462853

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"Stuart Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been reading the 'What does you day sack weight' thread with interest.

Whats the overall opinion of the usefulness of lightweight alcohol stoves, such as the Trangia 28
or any of the homemade pop can stoves for doing brews or pots of pasta etc in the mountains ?

I have a Trangia 27 which I tend to take on sheltered walks such as coast paths, where its fine
for brews and bacon butties. In the mountains I have tended to carry my faithful Primus 96L, which
is also fine but not exactly light.

My experience with Trangias is that, while heavy, they work better in the wind than in the calm.
Indeed, in windy weather they work better for boiling than any gas stove; but don't fry very well
due to the distance between flame & pan.

* Stuart Robinson <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

Whats the overall opinion of the usefulness of lightweight alcohol stoves, such as the Trangia 28
or any of the homemade pop can stoves for doing brews or pots of pasta etc in the mountains ?

I don't like any liquid fuel stoves. Even with a SIG fuel bottle, it's easy to get your kit or hands
stinking of meths/parafin/petrol (meths is the worst). I also feel alcohol is dangerous because it's
difficult to see the flame in bright light - you can easily spill some and have an invisible flame
creeping to where you least want it. I've got various liquid fuel stoves I've picked up at car boot
sales and whilst they're nicely made units, particularly the brass Primus parafin and petrol ones,
they'll remain as curiosities.

My current stove is an Epigas/Coleman Alpine.

Regards: Jim Ford

"Jim Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I don't like any liquid fuel stoves. Even with a SIG fuel bottle, it's

easy

Quoted message said:

to get your kit or hands stinking of meths/parafin/petrol (meths is the worst). I also feel
alcohol is dangerous because it's difficult to see the flame in bright light - you can easily
spill some and have an invisible flame creeping to where you least want it.

I think you're supposed to be able to dissolve a bit of salt in it to make the flame more visible
but I haven't tried it myself.

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I think you're supposed to be able to dissolve a bit of salt in it to make the flame more visible
but I haven't tried it myself.

Another quick thought if you use "Lo-Salt" instead of ordinary salt you ought to get a very pretty
lilac coloured flame because I think it's mostly potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride.

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart Robinson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a 28 and find it OK except in windy conditions. You definitely need to carry some heavy
foil to make a windshield out of in case it is windy.

Thanks, I was thinking of making a more permanent windshield out of thin sheet of ally.

Aye but heavier and less adaptable. A good bit of festive turkey foil is easily moulded to the shape
you require at that particular spot and it very light. Also cheap to replace if it gets ruined.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The kettle is great and being a smaller diameter than the Trangia is easier to pack. The 100g
cartridge easily fits inside it.

That kettle does look like a neat bit of kit.

I was well impressed when I first saw it in Cotswold's and have been very pleased with it in use.

--

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Quoted message said:

Indeed, in windy weather they work better for boiling than any gas stove

True, Trangias could be quicker I suppose, but to be honest I am never in so much of a hurry that
the extra few mins bother me.

Quoted message said:

but don't fry very well due to the distance between flame & pan.

I would agree with that, often on my coastal works I have used my Trangia 27 to fry thin steak,
great in butties. It works but its not really possible to get a happy medium between high and low on
the burner.

It has occurred to me that with the pop can burners weighing less than .5oz, you could make and
carry a simmering one, just for frying.

I wonder why Trangia never made an alloy version of their burner ?

Stuart.

Quoted message said:

Even with a SIG fuel bottle, it's easy to get your kit or hands stinking of meths/parafin/petrol
(meths is the worst).

Never had a particular problem with that myself, although I agree meths is the worst.

Quoted message said:

I also feel alcohol is dangerous because it's difficult to see the flame in bright light - you can
easily spill some and have an invisible flame creeping to where you least want it.

Agreed, although alcohol is not explosively dangerous in the same way that gas or petrol is.

Safety wise I think its a close call between paraffin and gas, paraffin stoves can flare up, but at
least if the fuel leaks you dont get an explosion.

Stuart.

Stuart Robinson said:

True, Trangias could be quicker I suppose, but to be honest I am never in so much of a hurry that
the extra few mins bother me.

But those extra few minutes consume more fuel, and when it's cold, that's a lot of extra minutes and
a lot of fuel consumed. I once brewed up a cuppa in the shelter on top of Fan Brycheiong in a
blizzard and it took 30 minutes to boil the water (it started off as snow). My petrol stove would
have done that way faster. I know that's an extreme case, but in all my cold weather camping it was
infuriatingly slow.

I used a Trangia for a number of years when I first started wild camping, and although I liked the
convenience, the speed was a real problem in cold weather and it consumed far too much fuel, which
made it expensive to run and I had to carry one litre for a weekend. I also had problems resupplying
in Mid Wales during a cycle tour, nobody seemed to sell it! Ended up having to do a 20 mile detour
to get some.

When I switched to petrol I was well impressed at how quick I was able to cook stuff, even in the
coldest weather, and I could last a weekend on less than half a litre. I think I once managed 5 days
on about 2/3 litre. And petrol is very cheap too, if you buy it from a petrol station! Much cheaper
than meths.

My first petrol stove was a pain, it was constantly clogging, and I had a couple of big flare ups,
once I had to throw the stove (and my food) out of the tent (and down the mountainside), luckily
before the tent caught fire (although it did get singed). Another time I had to throw it in a river
to put the flames out. My second petrol stove was much better behaved, although it did eventually
start clogging and I had a couple of small flare ups with that. I do like petrol (handy for getting
camp fires going) but...

Then I switched to gas. And I've been happy ever since. No liquid fuel to worry about, the flame is
fairly powerful (not as much as petrol but way better than meths), and it's highly controllable for
simmering. It even works well in cold weather, due to the butane/propane mix. The only downsides are
that it's more expensive (I think one £2.99 cartridge lasts 6 days or so), the flame gets weak as
the cartridge is running out, and you need to carry more than one cartridge if it's running out
(difficult to tell how much is left). Because of that Iike to carry an extra small cartridge just in
case I run out, but I don't use it (small cartridges are expensive).

All in all I recommend gas, by far the easiest to use, the cleanest, the least problematical (no
mishaps so far) and the lightest too. The Trangia does have a great windshield though, but there's a
weight penalty with that.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
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photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Stuart Robinson said:

Never had a particular problem with that myself, although I agree meths is the worst.

Disagree. I think paraffin is the worst. At least if you spill petrol it evaporates. One interesting
snippet of info is that the freezing point of petrol is below the freezing point of water, so if
you're out in sub-zero conditions you really don't want to spill that onto bare skin because it can
freeze your flesh (so I've heard). That's why I always use gloves when handling petrol in sub-zero
conditions.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:42 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),

(Stuart Robinson) said:

Quoted message said:

Even with a SIG fuel bottle, it's easy to get your kit or hands stinking of meths/parafin/petrol
(meths is the worst).

Never had a particular problem with that myself, although I agree meths is the worst.

Quoted message said:

I also feel alcohol is dangerous because it's difficult to see the flame in bright light - you
can easily spill some and have an invisible flame creeping to where you least want it.

Agreed, although alcohol is not explosively dangerous in the same way that gas or petrol is.

Alchol is just as dangerous as petrol from an explosion point of view.

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

Paul Saunders said:

Stuart Robinson said:

Never had a particular problem with that myself, although I agree meths is the worst.

Disagree. I think paraffin is the worst. At least if you spill petrol it evaporates. One
interesting snippet of info is that the freezing point of petrol is below the freezing point of
water, so if you're out in sub-zero conditions you really don't want to spill that onto bare skin
because it can freeze your flesh (so I've heard).

The same is true for alcohol as well. The evaporation of a volatile liquid extracts energy, hence it
will cool and eventually freeze your fingers, although it will take some time to do so.

Quoted message said:

Paul

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

Do you folks use Shellite (White Spirits) over there for use in the multi fuel stoves ? From what
I've gleaned over the years, it burns hotter, cleaner, and certainly more safe than petrol. I've
found that it is the way to go for all forms of cooking, so fast. Also recently used 800ml for 7 day
Tasmania (Oz) trip, group stove for 4 blokes. Boiling 3 lt water each night for dehydrated packs and
brew, 2 lt each morning for brew. I use an Optimus stove, and have an adapter to fit it to my
Trangia 27 if I feel like that kit on a walk. BUGGER ABOUT THE RUGBY ! That was close, bet you're
all blessing Johnny !
--
Regards, Les e-mail munged, remove the obvious to reply direct

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stuart Robinson wrote:

When I switched to petrol I was well impressed at how quick I was able to cook stuff, even in the
coldest weather, and I could last a weekend on less than half a litre. I think I once managed 5
days on about 2/3 litre. And petrol is very cheap too, if you buy it from a petrol station! Much
cheaper than meths.

figjam said:

Do you folks use Shellite (White Spirits) over there for use in the multi fuel stoves ?

Neither of those names apply here in the UK. White Spirit is turpentine substitute or
paint thinners.

Quoted message said:

From what I've gleaned over the years, it burns hotter, cleaner, and certainly more safe
than petrol.

Quoted message said:

BUGGER ABOUT THE RUGBY ! That was close, bet you're all blessing Johnny !

I was cursing that ********* ref!
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

figjam said:

Do you folks use Shellite (White Spirits) over there for use in the multi fuel stoves ?

Ack! Don't use British White Spirit in a stove our you will get a rude surprise. We use it for
cleaning paintbrushes!

I assume you mean White Gas or naphtha based fules - also called Coleman gas.

Quoted message said:

From what I've gleaned over the years, it burns hotter, cleaner, and certainly more safe than
petrol. I've found that it is the way to go for all forms of cooking, so fast. Also recently used
800ml for 7 day Tasmania (Oz) trip, group stove for 4 blokes. Boiling 3 lt water each night for
dehydrated packs and brew, 2 lt each morning for brew. I use an Optimus stove, and have an adapter
to fit it to my Trangia 27 if I feel like that kit on a walk. BUGGER ABOUT THE RUGBY ! That was
close, bet you're all blessing Johnny !

We woz robbed I say. It was all the bloody ref's fault. [whisper whisper]

What, you mean we won something? Oh.....!

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

figjam said:

Do you folks use Shellite (White Spirits) over there for use in the multi fuel stoves ?

Neither of those names apply here in the UK. White Spirit is turpentine substitute or paint
thinners.

Quoted message said:

From what I've gleaned over the years, it burns hotter, cleaner, and certainly more safe than
petrol.

--

Quoted message said:

Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil, I think Stuart hit the answer with Coleman fuel / White gasoline (below). Wow, major
difference in pricing there.

I get it by the litre, pay about $4.00 AUD = 1.6955GBP or 2.8864USD. Could easily get by with 500ml
for a 7 day trip cooking for myself (breakfast brew and dinner, and I don't stuff around pre-soaking
anything).

So a reasonably long trip fuel only costs me around 0.85GBP, versus your 500ml for 5.63GBP, quite a
difference if you do a lot of walking each year.

Shellite in GB = 3 x Oz.

So is it produced there, or brought in ? What might make it so expensive ? Just compare, we pay
around 0.35GBP for a litre of unleaded petrol here, you folks pay around 2.06GBP ?

If so, petrol in GB = 5.9 x Oz.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BUGGER ABOUT THE RUGBY ! That was close, bet you're all blessing Johnny !

I was cursing that ********* ref!

Curse all you like, we'll see ya next time when all the oldies you have retired, and our young guns
have some more experience under the belt : ) It you're lucky, Johnny'll still be there.

BTW, anyone interested in some photos of bushwalking and other trips in Australia, I've tacked on a
page to my website at . . . tudorglass.com.aubushwalk.htmOpen ↗

Recent Tasmania walk and desert walk along with many others.

Cheers.

Stuart Robinson said:

Quoted message said:

But those extra few minutes consume more fuel, and when it's cold, that's a lot of extra minutes
and a lot of fuel consumed. I once brewed up a cuppa in the shelter on top of Fan Brycheiong in a
blizzard and it took 30 minutes to boil the water (it started off as snow)

I agree, in winter meths is not a good choice, my own preference in those conditions would be a
Svea 123 petrol or 96L Primus.

Quoted message said:

It even works well in cold weather, due to the butane/propane mix.

I have only used gas a few times in the cold. On one occasion I was camped by the CIC hut in
january and even though I had warmed the butane\propane cylinder all night in my sleeping bag it
lasted only 30mins before it got so cold that it stopped working.

What kind of ambient temerature would that have been?

Quoted message said:

That was maybe 10 years ago, have the gas mixtures changed any to improve cold weather working ?

Until a couple of years ago the mix was 20/80 propane/butane. The norm now is
30/70. I always take a fresh cylinder each trip in the winter saving the part used ones for summer.
I have a stove with a flexible hose so I sometimes put the cylinder on top of the pan lid
where the air is warmer or invert the cylinder once the flame has been burning for a few
seconds so that liquid gas is fed to the preheater.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:42 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),

(Stuart Robinson) said:

Quoted message said:

But those extra few minutes consume more fuel, and when it's cold, that's a lot of extra minutes
and a lot of fuel consumed. I once brewed up a cuppa in the shelter on top of Fan Brycheiong in a
blizzard and it took 30 minutes to boil the water (it started off as snow)

I agree, in winter meths is not a good choice, my own preference in those conditions would be a
Svea 123 petrol or 96L Primus.

Quoted message said:

It even works well in cold weather, due to the butane/propane mix.

I have only used gas a few times in the cold. On one occasion I was camped by the CIC hut in
january and even though I had warmed the butane\propane cylinder all night in my sleeping bag it
lasted only 30mins before it got so cold that it stopped working.

That was maybe 10 years ago, have the gas mixtures changed any to improve cold weather working ?

30/70 butane mix will happily vapourise at -20C but the vapour pressure is not very high - hence you
don't get a very large flame. It would be possible to fit a larger jet to increase flow but go
too far and you may need a different burner design.

Below about -30C I would have said that gas was essentially useless and would prefer to use petrol.
One trick that is worth doing is warming the gas canister up in slightly warm water. Of course - you
have to get it running first in order to get warm water......

Quoted message said:

Stuart.

--
31.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Until a couple of years ago the mix was 20/80 propane/butane. The norm now is
30/70. I always take a fresh cylinder each trip in the winter saving the part used ones for
summer. I have a stove with a flexible hose so I sometimes put the cylinder on top of the
pan lid where the air is warmer or invert the cylinder once the flame has been burning for
a few seconds so that liquid gas is fed to the preheater.

I have just had a look at one of the small GT cylinders I have left over from my back packing days
mumble mumble years ago - Butane (90g). ISTR that Calor gas is only Butane as well but at least with
the 2 burner stove I use for 'out of the car' camping the cylinder can be warmed up on one burner
while cooking is progressing on the other.

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight