Sundays Age



H

HUMBUG

Guest
Sundays Age - http://tinyurl.com/72nms - if you're a cyclist it's
stating the obvious but if you're not......

Now if only we could the more idiotic cagers to read it, if they can
read of course.

--
Humbug
 
Bob wrote:
> Revisiting the demerit points debate The Age have got one piece horribly
> wrong - citing a possible two point penalty for "riding two abreast", and
> quoting the source as VicRoads website. Is it so hard to decipher: "Ride
> more than two abreast" as VicRoads states? Maybe "more than" doesn't fit the
> space requirements. Incredibly lazy journalism.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/media/2005/08/06/1123125945933.html
>
>
>
>
>
> "HUMBUG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Sundays Age - http://tinyurl.com/72nms - if you're a cyclist it's
>>stating the obvious but if you're not......
>>
>>Now if only we could the more idiotic cagers to read it, if they can
>>read of course.
>>
>>--
>>Humbug

>
>
>

Its also legal to turn left without signalling
 
dave said:
Bob wrote:
> Revisiting the demerit points debate The Age have got one piece horribly
> wrong - citing a possible two point penalty for "riding two abreast", and
> quoting the source as VicRoads website. Is it so hard to decipher: "Ride
> more than two abreast" as VicRoads states? Maybe "more than" doesn't fit the
> space requirements. Incredibly lazy journalism.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/media/2005/08/06/1123125945933.html
>
>
>
>
>
> "HUMBUG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Sundays Age - http://tinyurl.com/72nms - if you're a cyclist it's
>>stating the obvious but if you're not......
>>
>>Now if only we could the more idiotic cagers to read it, if they can
>>read of course.
>>
>>--
>>Humbug

>
>
>

Its also legal to turn left without signalling
The more of us who actually let The Age know this the more likely a correction will be printed. I for one don't want the added abuse from motorists because I am cycling beside another cyclist.

(I know, like there isn't enough to do without having to do without having to fix up stoopid mistakes other people make.)

cheers,
ali
 
"HUMBUG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sundays Age - http://tinyurl.com/72nms - if you're a cyclist it's
> stating the obvious but if you're not......
>
> Now if only we could the more idiotic cagers to read it, if they can
> read of course.
>
> --
> Humbug


I like that bit in the article about the 'Think Truck"....hhahaha...stated
that " you wouldn't do that in front of a truck would you".......WTF!!...You
should see what those tin top wankers do in front of my bus on a daily basis
in Sydney.....and if ya hit one......you often get "Where'd the hell you
come from...didn't see ya"!! I'm talking about a 40 foot 10 tonne bus
here..a blue and white government one...can't miss 'em...or another round of
abuse you get in "ya shoulda waited till i went around you"!! which means
chucking a left hander from lane 2, accross lane 1 in front of the bus so
they can head into the little side street on the left.
So.....if they have this attitude towards a massive bus like
vehicle......I'm sorry guys but Cyclists just don't rate.

DJ
 
alison_b said:
The more of us who actually let The Age know this the more likely a correction will be printed. I for one don't want the added abuse from motorists because I am cycling beside another cyclist.

(I know, like there isn't enough to do without having to do without having to fix up stoopid mistakes other people make.)

cheers,
ali


When motorists go for their licence, they must at least be made to read AusRoads (in it's entirety? Bwhahahaha!), AusRoads Part 14, and in Victoria, the VicRoads Cycle Notes:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrne5nav.nsf/childdocs/-55E7C4E2B4A5C914CA256FD300241BD4-4CF6F5789A47DED4CA256FD300241BEA-EDAC140AD1FE2CF2CA256FD300241BEC-5932FCD44F312390CA256FE10042BC63?open

Share the Road? Then learn HOW to do it! http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrne5nav.nsf/alltitle/Vehicles-Bicycles%20%26%20Pedestrians
 
From yesterdays Saturday Age: Out of grief, a campaign of shock tactics

Use Bug Me Not to register

(Yeah, good on you Harry, the current system doesn't work, lets simply implement another equally inept fine system)


Simon Gillett, husband of Amy Gillett, says drivers should be given a jolt to make them more considerate. Simon Gillett, husband of Amy Gillett, says drivers should be given a jolt to make them more considerate.

In his mind's eye, Simon Gillett can vividly imagine the sort of television advertising campaign he believes is necessary to save cyclists from road carnage� Something shocking, something that will jolt us out of a culture of carelessness, something that draws on the sort of pain he is experiencing himself � and he's preparing to help fund it.

"I can envisage you having the irate motorist, he's got the kids in the car, he runs a bunch of cyclists off the road, someone's getting hurt. He pulls up, and it's either his wife or his nephew or one of his other kids.

"He realises what he's done, injured one of his own family."

But Gillett, 47, a former Olympic rowing coach turned cyclist, believes any campaign needs to focus on cyclists' behaviour, too.

"You can't expect motorists to respect cyclists if cyclists don't respect the road laws themselves."

Gillett's plans come as:
- Victoria Police are extending their hunt for a P-plate hit-run driver who injured cyclists in a serious incident on the Beach Road at Black Rock last Sunday.

- Bicycle Victoria's general manager, Harry Barber. supports a senior Victorian policeman's call for introduction of demerit points against cyclists' driving licences for bicycle offences.

In the wake of his wife Amy's death in Germany, no-one would have demurred had Simon Gillett, who attended her memorial service in Adelaide on Friday, retreated into his private grief.

Yet this has not happened � he is determined to retrieve some meaning from his devastating loss and says he is not "hiding under a stone".

Gillett has set up the Amy Gillett Safe Cycling Foundation, with more than $100,000 already pledged, which has as one of its goals making Australian roads safer for cyclists.

The fund is being administered by Cycling Australia, the principal body for competitive Australian cycling and road training, and Gillett believes it will receive plenty of support in a campaign the public will welcome.

"Drink driving has become socially unacceptable, but it wasn't unacceptable 20 years ago. If we can make running over cyclists or treating cyclists badly unacceptable, then we've won the battle, basically," he says.

Riding up to 300 kilometres a week out of Ballarat, Gillett thinks he knows plenty about the problems, and the places where things need to be improved.

In Melbourne, he supports a plan being developed by Beach Road stakeholders, including councils and police, to create a clear cycling lane at the time cyclists most use the road, from 6-10am on Saturdays and Sundays.

Police and cycling bodies are concerned to solve the problems of Beach Road because it is the logical training track for international competitors in the Commonwealth Games. The time trial will be held between St Kilda and Beaumaris.

Police appealed last week for any witnesses to a hit-run incident in which a dark maroon or purple 1996-98 sedan clipped a number of cyclists just north of the Black Rock clock tower roundabout at 9am on Sunday.

The car was displaying a P-plate in the rear window.

Police are combing Melbourne for the car, which lost its left mirror and was seen to accelerate then skid into a turn off Beach Road and into a side street.

The cyclists were in a group of 14, riding in pairs in the left lane, when the car hit three of the outside riders. Two were taken to the Alfred Hospital; a Pearcedale man with suspected fractures which turned out to be severe bruising, and the other, Renato Picciani, 38, of Windsor, with a deep gash.
 
I felt so damn proud and in awe of the guy for turning his personal tragedy into something that potentially could be so darned good. I doubt i could be capable of that :(

perhaps we could get in contact with him/the-foundation to see if he would be interested to support WheelsOfJustice (and/or us him).

He's got the media strongly behind him and people will listen.

Let's stop whineing to the converted and start putting some positive steps in place here people!

So, who's on board? REALLY onboard??
 
flyingdutch said:
I felt so damn proud and in awe of the guy for turning his personal tragedy into something that potentially could be so darned good. I doubt i could be capable of that :(

perhaps we could get in contact with him/the-foundation to see if he would be interested to support WheelsOfJustice (and/or us him).

He's got the media strongly behind him and people will listen.

Let's stop whineing to the converted and start putting some positive steps in place here people!

So, who's on board? REALLY onboard??
I'd like a campaign that actually rewards good driving. Take the number plate of the car whose driver actually contributed to shared road safety, log it, and they get a bumper sticker and a thankyou in the mail. Cyclists could also carry a bunch of stickers, and when safe hand them over with a smile and a thankyou. It would need a catchy slogan... I imagine it could be implemented without great cost... I'd be keen to hear other peoples' suggestions...

No, I'm not suggesting this is instead of enforcement of laws, I'm not the poster child for the happy cyclist (show me a mobile phone using motorist and I understand how people can murder :D ), and no this isn't going to save the world. But it as much a cultural change needed as legislative (well, i think so anyway!) this could be a small part of that, perhaps?

oh... and to The Age (one of my daughters is worried that I might squander seconds off my 15 minutes of fame :eek: ):

What a shame the otherwise balanced and informative articles addressing
concerns surrounding cycling in Sunday's Age (August 7th, 2005) were
undermined by careless journalism. Simon Gillett's message of the need
for motorists' and cyclists' care on the roads, including increased
consideration of motorists for cyclists, is powerful. It is upsetting to
have misinformation of the sort The Age claims is from the Vicroads
website undermining this message. I acknowledge that the vast majority of
motorists are courteous and responsible drivers. However, I can't help but
wonder how many of those who fail to measure up to even basic standrards
of commonsense will just add to their chorus of abuse and intimidation
when they next see two cyclists LEGALLY riding abreast. Getting the
points right only required copying them accurately. From the Vicroads
website:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/VRNE/vrne5nav.nsf/FirstChild/-0FFFDE1079575E47CA256FD300241C36

"Offenders can be fined more than $50 for the following offences:
[...]
- Ride more than two abreast"

The missing words "more than" are essential for accuracy. Again quoting
from the website:

"Riding beside other cyclists

A cyclist must not ride alongside more than one other rider unless:

- the rider is overtaking other cyclists who may be cycling beside each
other; or
- the rider is taking part in an on-road cycling event that has been
approved by the Chief Commissioner of Police."

That is, a cyclist may overtake two other cyclists riding abreast.

Similarly, a cyclist is not legally bound to signal when turning left or
stopping:

"Cyclists are required to indicate their intention to turn right. They are
not required to indicate their intention to turn left or to stop."

I hope that The Age can see fit to publish an article correcting the
misinformation featured in the article. I will be thinking of The Age the
next time a motorist acts on their mistaken belief that only they are
allowed to use the roads and am abused for riding alongside another
cyclist.
 
Before going down the path of fixing the problem, it might be a good
idea to define what the problem actually is. I think we'd all agree that
the majority of drivers are ok with cyclists, not perfect but ok (much
the same as the cycling community). So there's probably not much point
in directing a campaign at all drivers. At the other end of the scale we
have the ratbags who are going to be aresholes on the road regardless of
what anybody says, and not just to cyclists, but to pedestrians and
other car drivers as well. So who is left, and what exactly do we want
them to do.

When we know what we want to achieve then is the time to work out how to
do it. Handing out bumper stickers to nice drivers is a nice gesture,
but what is it going to change? I'd say it has about as much impact as
one of those "Free Tibet" stickers, the Chinese govt must be shaking in
their boots everytime they see one of those. I'm all for action, but
there's got to be some logic behind it.

DaveB
 
>>>>> "flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <[email protected]> writes:

flyingdutch> Let's stop whineing to the converted and start putting
flyingdutch> some positive steps in place here people!

flyingdutch> So, who's on board? REALLY onboard??

I'm in.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
 
>>>>> "alison" == alison b <alison_b> writes:

alison> I'd like a campaign that actually rewards good driving. Take
alison> the number plate of the car whose driver actually
alison> contributed to shared road safety, log it, and they get a
alison> bumper sticker and a thankyou in the mail.

Nice idea but I'd find it difficult to implement. I've no idea how many
cars pass me on Nepean each day with adequate clearance, reckon it must
number in the thousands. I couldn't possibly thank them all :)

What I'm trying to say is that it's very difficult to reward good
driving because it really should be the norm. Love it if we could but I
can't see a practical way of doing it.

Any suggestions?
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
 
>>>>> "DaveB" == DaveB <[email protected]> writes:

DaveB> When we know what we want to achieve then is the time to work
DaveB> out how to do it.

I agree.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
 
flyingdutch said:
Let's stop whineing to the converted and start putting some positive steps in place here people!

So, who's on board? REALLY onboard??

Me too (obviously), and Mr Bikesoiler as well. :)
 
"alison_b" wrote:

> Again quoting from the website:
>
> "Riding beside other cyclists
>
> A cyclist must not ride alongside more than one other rider unless:
>
> - the rider is overtaking other cyclists who may be cycling beside each
> other; or
> - the rider is taking part in an on-road cycling event that has been
> approved by the Chief Commissioner of Police."
>
> That is, a cyclist may overtake two other cyclists riding abreast.
>

An additional point - two cyclists, riding two abreast, may legally overtake
two other cyclists riding two abreast. During this overtaking manoeuvre they
can be 4 wide, LEGALLY. I had this opinion stated by a police officer at a
Cycle-On program for teachers.

The interesting thing is that the Beach Road riders can legally use this to
ride 4-wide if they are riding a well disciplined pace line, working turns
and continuously overtaking. Could be the basis for an interesting protest
ride?

Cheers
Peter
 
On 2005-08-07, Peter Signorini (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> An additional point - two cyclists, riding two abreast, may legally overtake
> two other cyclists riding two abreast. During this overtaking manoeuvre they
> can be 4 wide, LEGALLY. I had this opinion stated by a police officer at a
> Cycle-On program for teachers.
>
> The interesting thing is that the Beach Road riders can legally use this to
> ride 4-wide if they are riding a well disciplined pace line, working turns
> and continuously overtaking. Could be the basis for an interesting protest
> ride?


And is it 4 wide per lane? (I can't imagine we are banned from riding
2 per lane for an arbitrary amount of lanes).

So have 3 sets of these pace lines going down a 3 lane highway.

--
TimC
Conclusion to my thesis -- "It is trivial to show that it is
clearly obvious that this is not woofly."
 
I overheard 2x ladies talking about the prevelance of bikes on Melb roads lately.
It finished with the comment of: "... with the amount of bicycles paths there are around the place nowadays, you would think those bike riders would use them instead of being on the road."

Saw another family group on their bikes today, with dad still letting his helmet swing about on the end of the handlebars as he rolled past.....

I heard there are thoughts of licencing or registating cyclists..... yep, there definately has been a massive amount of progress in cycling awareness recently....
 
Euan said:
>>>>> "DaveB" == DaveB <[email protected]> writes:

DaveB> When we know what we want to achieve then is the time to work
DaveB> out how to do it.

I agree.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

One problem we have is that we are small(er than a car) and invisible: most of us ride singly (Beach Road is an exception) and the impact of the absence of our cars on the road is unnoticed.

How about a mass weekend drive down Beach Road instead of a cycle? If we picked one weekend, all drove at 40 km/hr with bikes mounted on the car to identify us as cyclists, we could show that:
we are a large group when acting collectively
we (mostly) all drive and pay registration fees
if we chose to drive rather than cycle we would be adding considerably to traffic congestion.

imagine if even half of the 6000 cyclists a wekend day did this in an organised fashion, (but didn't break any road rules), even Channel 7 would struggle to vilify us.
 
"TimC" wrote:
>
> And is it 4 wide per lane? (I can't imagine we are banned from riding
> 2 per lane for an arbitrary amount of lanes).
>
> So have 3 sets of these pace lines going down a 3 lane highway.


No luck :-{ In this case lanes don't matter. 2 abreast is the limit for any
road, and 2+2 when overtaking.

Cheers
Peter
 
ProfTournesol said:
How about a mass weekend drive down Beach Road instead of a cycle? If we picked one weekend, all drove at 40 km/hr with bikes mounted on the car to identify us as cyclists, we could show that:
we are a large group when acting collectively
we (mostly) all drive and pay registration fees
if we chose to drive rather than cycle we would be adding considerably to traffic congestion.

Now,I like your suggestion.This will surely remind those that claim us,cyclists, should NOT be riding on the road at all,as we never pay any registration fee on our bikes.
 
giantbike said:
Now,I like your suggestion.This will surely remind those that claim us,cyclists, should NOT be riding on the road at all,as we never pay any registration fee on our bikes.

imagine if we reversed BV's strategy and organised a Drive to Work Day for cyclists, again with bikes on roof racks/bike beak etc.