SUV Protest

Bob the Cow said:

"Nuck 'n Futz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl

No idea what that even means.

To interpret what he writes in RBM, you need to know that "Zoot Katz" is
the
protagonist in a very imaginative if somewhat simplistic video game, where

he rides hither and yon on a bicycle, and is constantly doing battle with
his nemeses, people who drive cars. They drive as though they've been
pithed, and were it not for his sharp wits and quick reflexes, Zoot, his
pets and his friends would be flattened many times a day, and the "game"
would have been "over" long ago. He has all manner of pejorative
nicknames
for people who drive cars, of which "scud slaves" and "cagers" are among
the
mildest ones. Name-calling and vicarious letting down of tires is his
only
defense against the evil Scud Slaves and Cagers who constantly imperil
him.

"[censored]" is sort of a catch-all word for anybody who isn't Zoot Katz.
So
you and I are "[censored]". Got that?

He's been playing this game a long time. He has all 100 high scores for
the
game, and he is at the highest level. Nobody plays it as well as him,
he's
a natural like the deaf, dumb and blind kid who sure played a mean
pinball.

He has long since lost the most tenuous touch with reality.

Wow. I have to agree with Bovine Bob!

--
Sock Puppet

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Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

the black rose wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world
to live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Um, wow. I've had my share of tiffs with Zoot (included being attacked
personally for expressing political views that he...um, didn't like), but
I
think you're overstating his "miserable persona" a bit. He's a
left-wing,
anti-car nutjob, yes, but otherwise seems fairly normal. (I'll add a
smiley
face here if really necessary!) He's nowhere near Vandemanesque in terms
of
social dysfunctionality (IMO).

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

Oh [censored], I have to agree with Hickey again.

Accusing people of saying things that they did not say, then flaming them
for it crosses the line of acceptable behavior, even for Usenet.

--
Sock Puppet

"Sock Puppet" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

A lot of the backcountry roads here in Colorado may well havde been
negotiable in a VW Beetle or Bus in the '60s and '70s, but the dramatic
increase in SUV traffic on these roads, the excess weight of modern SUVs,
and lack of maintenance have made these roads impassable for anything
without big fat tires, lots of clearance, and either very low gearing or
a

fair bit of low end torque. Even with an SUV, travelling these roads can
be
a difficult, unpleasant experience. Hiking them, OTOH, is fairly pleasant
and not a whole lot slower than driving on them.

Why hike when there is that wonderful invention, the mountain bicycle
(sorry
Mikey V)? Almost every LBS has a decent selection and a decent one can had
for about 2% of the cost of a new SUV.

--
Sock Puppet

1) Because hiking can be quite enjoyable at times (and yes, I do own a
mountain bike).

2)Because many trails on US Forest Service and National Park Service land
that go to really neat places are off limits to mountain bikes.

3) Because there are plenty of places that I can hike to that I don't think
I could ride a bike to, no matter how knobby the tires or how much travel
the suspension has.
--
mark

jmt said:

Funny thing, the Evolution of these Vehicles. A few decades
ago, the only Apes possessing same were Duck Hunters, Farmers,
Construction Workers, you know, folks who might actually have some sort
of Reason for a Off-Road Truck with 4wD and a place to put their Doggie
and cooler(s) and 8 or 9 Implements of Destruction, etc(not that there's
Anything Wrong with That). Why anyone without these rather Special
Needs would feel compelled to shell out the rather exorbitant $$$ is
rather quaint, even in the continuing saga of Yuppie Status-Seeking.

I remember driving some of those vehicles for work. Vinyl seats, manual door
locks and windows, single speaker AM radio, manual locking hubs, a real
transfer case and no status value. Some things used to be better.

--
Sock Puppet

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Zoot Katz said:

I don't drive by "choice". I'm sometimes required to chauffer my
employer in their car.

You should find another job so you do not have to endanger cyclists,
pedestrians, squirrels and other innocents with an evil, gas guzzling, toxin
spewing scud of death.

You do have a choice. Find another job, or stop attacking others who have no
reasonable choice but to use a automobile due to circumstances. Or be a
hypocrite.

--
Sock Puppet

Sock Puppet said:

Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

the black rose wrote:

Quoted message said:

> I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
> self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful
> world to live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Um, wow. I've had my share of tiffs with Zoot (included being
attacked personally for expressing political views that he...um,
didn't like), but I
think you're overstating his "miserable persona" a bit. He's a
left-wing,
anti-car nutjob, yes, but otherwise seems fairly normal. (I'll add
a smiley
face here if really necessary!) He's nowhere near Vandemanesque in
terms of
social dysfunctionality (IMO).

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

Oh [censored], I have to agree with Hickey again.

Accusing people of saying things that they did not say, then flaming
them for it crosses the line of acceptable behavior, even for Usenet.

Ah! A totally separate issue, with which I am intimately -- and recently --
familiar. (Your argument, like mine, very quickly had nothing to do with
the original disagreement and everything to do with illogical, unfair and
ultimately dishonest tactics.)

That doesn't necessarily mean that Zoot is like that in REAL life (which,
sadly, some people can't differentiate from Usenet, even if they actually
know a poster), which was my only point in response to Rose, above. I have
to hope that Zoot's online persona is the "fringe extreme"of his real self
(as indeed a recent post of his admits/suggests).

I'm starting to think that EVERYONE should use sock puppets (lower case) all
the time. Can we make a rule?!?

BS

Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:33:31 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Sock Puppet"

Quoted message said:

You do have a choice. Find another job, or stop attacking others who have no
reasonable choice but to use a automobile due to circumstances. Or be a
hypocrite.

Driving isn't in the job description. I do it because experience has
proven that its safer for me, cyclists, pedestrians, pets and other
drivers if I do drive when I'm required to accompany my employer on
business.

All my other job related travel is done by bike. When my employer
offers the use of their car for business trips that can be done by
bicycle I take the opportunity to ride.
--
zk

Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:46:35 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Bill Sornson"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Accusing people of saying things that they did not say, then flaming
them for it crosses the line of acceptable behavior, even for Usenet.

Ah! A totally separate issue, with which I am intimately -- and recently --
familiar.

Come and get your puppy, Billy. It's been pissing on the rug and
nipping at my heels for a week now.
--
zk

Sun, 18 Sep 2005 04:14:19 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

I don't choose to hold the actions of a few idiots against everybody else.

Over 250,000 traffic deaths in a year can hardly be blamed on a only a
"few idiots".
--
zk

Bill Sornson said:

Sock Puppet said:

Mark Hickey said:

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> the black rose wrote:

>> I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
>> self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful
>> world to live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.
>
> Um, wow. I've had my share of tiffs with Zoot (included being
> attacked personally for expressing political views that he...um,
> didn't like), but I
> think you're overstating his "miserable persona" a bit. He's a
> left-wing,
> anti-car nutjob, yes, but otherwise seems fairly normal. (I'll add
> a smiley
> face here if really necessary!) He's nowhere near Vandemanesque in
> terms of
> social dysfunctionality (IMO).

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

Oh [censored], I have to agree with Hickey again.

Accusing people of saying things that they did not say, then flaming
them for it crosses the line of acceptable behavior, even for Usenet.

Ah! A totally separate issue, with which I am intimately -- and recently
--
familiar. (Your argument, like mine, very quickly had nothing to do with
the original disagreement and everything to do with illogical, unfair and
ultimately dishonest tactics.)

Bill Sornson states my single issue with "Zoot Katz" very well. ([censored],
agreeing with Sornson again.) I expect to be flamed for things I post -
viscous attacks are part of unmoderated online discussion forums. What is
unacceptable is maintaining that I said something that I did not. When this
occurs I will hammer the point home until everyone else is sick of the
discussion.

--
Sock Puppet

mark said:

"Sock Puppet" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

A lot of the backcountry roads here in Colorado may well havde been
negotiable in a VW Beetle or Bus in the '60s and '70s, but the dramatic
increase in SUV traffic on these roads, the excess weight of modern
SUVs,
and lack of maintenance have made these roads impassable for anything
without big fat tires, lots of clearance, and either very low gearing
or
a

fair bit of low end torque. Even with an SUV, travelling these roads
can
be
a difficult, unpleasant experience. Hiking them, OTOH, is fairly
pleasant
and not a whole lot slower than driving on them.

Why hike when there is that wonderful invention, the mountain bicycle
(sorry
Mikey V)? Almost every LBS has a decent selection and a decent one can
had
for about 2% of the cost of a new SUV.

--
Sock Puppet

1) Because hiking can be quite enjoyable at times (and yes, I do own a
mountain bike).

2)Because many trails on US Forest Service and National Park Service land
that go to really neat places are off limits to mountain bikes.

3) Because there are plenty of places that I can hike to that I don't
think
I could ride a bike to, no matter how knobby the tires or how much travel
the suspension has.

We were discussing unimproved roads that are used by motorized vehicles, so
points 2 and 3 are moot. Nothing wrong with 1, but if I am going to hike, I
will likely choose something other than roads with motorized traffic, if
possible

--
Sock Puppet

Sock Puppet said:

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

In the US, that 5 minute ambulance ride will cost you $300-600.

*boggle*

Then unless I'm bleeding so badly that I'll pass out before getting to
the hospital, or my legs are broken, I'm driving. Wow.

--
Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows
upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss. --seen on Slashdot

Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:29:39 -0600, <[email hidden]>, Robert Uhl

Quoted message said:

Sock Puppet said:

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

In the US, that 5 minute ambulance ride will cost you $300-600.

*boggle*

Then unless I'm bleeding so badly that I'll pass out before getting to
the hospital, or my legs are broken, I'm driving. Wow.

I figure you'd probably also drive while temporarily blinded since it
wouldn't be that much different from how others apparently drive. And
I figure you'd drive stunned with a brain concussion too since it
wouldn't be that much different from how others apparently drive.

Now try to park and hope some other panicked irresponsible idiot
hasn't rationalised leaving their scud abandoned to block the
entrance.

A five minute taxi ride is going to be under ten bucks. Splurge.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

Bob said:

BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Hmm. I'm surprised letting the air out of tires could _ever_ qualify
as a felony. Care to give the details?

- Frank Krygowski

Here's the appropriate cite from the Illinois Combined Statutes. Pay
special attention to the wording in (a)2.

(625 ILCS 5/4-102) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 4-102)
Sec. 4-102. Offenses relating to motor vehicles and other
vehicles - Misdemeanors.
(a) It is a violation of this Chapter for:
(1) A person, without authority to do so, to damage
a vehicle or to damage or remove any part of a vehicle;

(2) A person, without authority to do so, to tamper
with a vehicle or go in it, on it, or work or attempt to work any
of its parts, or set or attempt to set it in motion;

(3) A person to fail to report a vehicle as
unclaimed in accordance with the provisions of Section 4-107.

(b) Sentence. A person convicted of a violation of this Section
shall be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. A person convicted of a
violation of this Section a second or subsequent time, shall be guilty
of a Class 4 felony.
(Source: P.A. 86-1209.)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Zoot Katz said:

15 Sep 2005 18:28:43 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?
--
zk

Felony? No. Misdemeanor? Yes.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst.

Perhaps. But I personally like the way they're acting out.

They should bottle up the air and sell it on ebay. I'm sure they'd get
some takers. Which would encourage them even more..... WooWoo!

Rich

Bob said:

wafflycat said:

Article in The Times this morning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1778863,00.html

"Ecowarriors go into battle against 4x4s - with cycle pumps"

Includes...

"DRIVERS who park gasguzzling 4x4s overnight in Paris are receiving an
unpleasant surprise in the morning: flat tyres. A gang of young activists
are deflating the tyres of what they regard as anti-social urban tanks which
clog the narrow streets of the Left Bank."

"To the amazement of furious owners, the police say that it is not a crime
because property is not damaged. "We have had complaints, but it is not
clear that any offence is being committed," said an officer at the sixth
arrondissement."

"They expel the air slowly without setting off the vehicles' alarms, fixing
open bicycle pump hoses to the tyre valves and returning later to collect
their equipment. They leave a leaflet explaining their action."

Cheers, helen s

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense. If I happened to catch them would *I* arrest them?
Probably not. I would however make them pump up all the tires they'd
flattened using the same bicycle pumps they'd used to flatten them
before sending them home exhausted to Mommy and Daddy. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

We heard you the first 2 times, bob.

"Suck Poppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I
think these magnetic ones on eBay are funnier.

http://tinyurl.com/cmk97

What is so funny about homophobia?

Now, now, don't be intolerant.

The Wogster said:

Buck said:

Awww, come on guys! Both of you can't get the numbers?!?

SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!

Then we can go on with this little sidetrack in the conversation....

Try the California Report for Leaf Blower pollution, other numbers are
available in other areas of the same site.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/leafblow/leafblow.htm

Most of the numbers are broken down by the type of pollution.

So, here are some snippets from the report you cited:

"Exhaust emissions from these engines, while high compared to on-road
mobile sources on a per engine basis, are a small part of the overall
emission inventory."

and

"Data on fugitive dust indicate that the PM10 [particulate matter]
emissions impacts from dust suspended by leaf blowers are small, but
probably significant. Previous emission estimates range from less than
1% to 5% of the statewide PM10 inventory."

and regarding noise:

"Unfortunately, without a comprehensive and current survey of noise
exposures in California, it is not possible to determine, from
available data, how many Californians are exposed to noise, and in
particular exposed to noise from leaf blowers. The only conclusion is
that the
number of people affected by noise is likely increasing as population
density increases even in non-metropolitan areas of the state. How many
people are exposed to, and annoyed by, noise from leaf blowers is a
question for future research."

And finally, the crux of the matter:

"Because of the highly speculative nature of the data on operator and
bystander exposure time, staff have been unable to develop estimates of
the quantities of chemicals individuals could be exposed to per amount
of time. Instead, impacts are presented somewhat qualitatively, with
recommendations for appropriate personal protection or controls from
hazards that staff have found to be significant."

So, the short summary is that the pollutant levels (both particulate
and chemical) are rather small, the noise may be a bit bothersome, but
only damaging to those with long-term direct exposure - the operators
of the equipment.

On top of this is the manufacturers are already in the process of
ushering in new quieter, low-pollution models that will reduce the
negative effects even more.

Most of the gasoline blowers are in use by landscaping companies
(according to the report). Also according to the report, the bulk of
the blowers in use by residents are electric. So, what the heck are you
worried about? If most of the gasoline powered ones are in use by
professionals, most of the negative exposure is by the same
professionals. And to top it all off, they will be replacing them with
more environmentally friendly ones in the coming years as their old
ones wear out!

Talk about blowing things out of proportion....

-Buck

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He [Zoot] has long since lost the most tenuous touch with reality.

Wow. I have to agree with Bovine Bob!

But you're still trying to engage him with reality. It's a waste of bytes.