SUV Protest

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Accusing people of saying things that they did not say, then flaming them
for it crosses the line of acceptable behavior, even for Usenet.

Au contraire. It's kinda normal for Usenet, especially in the interface of
Usenet with Zoot's video game existence.

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Tom Keats wrote:

>In article <[email hidden]>,
> the black rose <[email hidden]> writes:
>
>
>
>>I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
>>self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
>>live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.
>
>
>Lose a loved one (or two) to the selfish carelessness of
>scud pilots, and then say all that.
>
>

I believe I did. Lose two loved ones to the selfish carelessness of
other drivers, that is. And then say all that. Yes, indeed I did.

I don't see it in this thread.

Oh do grow up. You told me to lose a couple of loved ones to the
carelessness of automobile drivers, and then say "all that." And I
informed you that I have in fact lost a couple of loved ones to the
carelessness of automobile drivers and then said "all that."

<sigh> I'm not gonna play your stupid he said/she said game.
So I guess you're playing with yourself.

Quoted message said:

I don't choose to hold the actions of a few idiots against everybody else.

Of course not; you've bought into the paradigm where
the mayhem inflicted by cars is acceptable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, you lose loved ones to the selfish carelessness
of other drivers, and yet apparently don't find /that/
creating a frightful world to live in? And you pity
those who do? What are you, some kind of car addict?

Car addict? BWA HAHAHAHAHA. My, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.

Protesting muchly, eh?

Quoted message said:

No, I don't find this a frightful world to live in.

You must be even more blessed than me.

Quoted message said:

There will always
be careless people. I will do my best to avoid them.

Which is more than can be said for the careless people.

Quoted message said:

I ride with
healthy caution. There may come a day when I don't successfully avoid a
careless driver, or there may not, but I don't see it as a reason to let
fear, anger and paranoia rule me.

It's not about fear, anger and paranoia. It's more like
disgust, coupled with caring enough about people to not
want them (us) needlessly hurt or killed.

Quoted message said:

Nor do I see it as a reason to
blindly attack people I don't even know just because they said something
I disagree with.

Y'mean like when you say: "I can't even imagine what it must be like to
live with all that self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What
a frightful world to live in! I feel pretty sorry for him." ?

Quoted message said:

The assumptions you're making about me are
breathtakingly inaccurate.

The vehemence of your protestations suggests otherwise.

Quoted message said:

Live each day to the fullest, do my best to do no harm, and ride my bike
lots because I enjoy it, because it's good for me, because it's good for
the world I live in. If that attitude creates a frightful world, then I

^

Quoted message said:

really don't know what to say.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe some day you'll get it.

Quoted message said:

Nor do I care to argue this any further
with an individual who doesn't appear to have left name-calling behind
in the schoolyard.

Fine, so STFU then.

Quoted message said:

So fire away, my dear, if it makes you feel better.

Fire away I will: cars kill & maim too many people.

I don't consider that acceptable.

You do.

HAND,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Robert Uhl said:

Sock Puppet said:

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

In the US, that 5 minute ambulance ride will cost you $300-600.

*boggle*

Then unless I'm bleeding so badly that I'll pass out before getting to
the hospital, or my legs are broken, I'm driving. Wow.

I had a minor work related incident where my co-workers though I needed to
go to the emergency room (this was a few years ago). The 2-mile ambulance
ride was $350 and the total bill was $1,100 (and all they did was hook me up
to some monitoring equipment and observe me for a couple hours).

My employer determined it was not covered workman's compensation, and my
managed health care plan only paid $150, so I was stuck paying $950 out of
pocket. Ain't the US health care rationing system great!

--
Sock Puppet

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Rich said:

Bob said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst.

Perhaps. But I personally like the way they're acting out.

They should bottle up the air and sell it on ebay. I'm sure they'd get
some takers. Which would encourage them even more..... WooWoo!

Real Cyclists [TM] only use air bottled at the Campagnolo factory in Vicenza
<http://www.campyonly.com/factory.html> to inflate their tires.

--
Sock Puppet

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Sock Puppet said:

Rich said:

Bob said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst.

Perhaps. But I personally like the way they're acting out.

They should bottle up the air and sell it on ebay. I'm sure they'd get
some takers. Which would encourage them even more..... WooWoo!

Real Cyclists [TM] only use air bottled at the Campagnolo factory in Vicenza
<http://www.campyonly.com/factory.html> to inflate their tires.

And we lesser people (POBs, if you will,) use pumps
and common air. We're not worthy. We might as well
step out into the street, get run over & killed so
you Patricians don't have to countenance us.

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Bob the Cow said:

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He [Zoot] has long since lost the most tenuous touch with reality.

Wow. I have to agree with Bovine Bob!

But you're still trying to engage him with reality. It's a waste of
bytes.

I think providing people with enough rope to hang their online reputations
is a valuable service.

--
Sock Puppet

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Zoot Katz said:

16 Sep 2005 16:09:44 -0700,
<>
What about bicycles? How do they fair?
Other than getting run off the road by your scud, that is.
--
zk

Are talking about road or mountain bikes? Tucson is road biking heaven.
Lots of good roads, good weather, and the ability to go far and fast on
flat roads or to climb real mountains all right in the metro area.
Their is not a significant amount of vehicular vs. cyclist hostility so
getting run off the road is pretty rare. That said the average driving
speed is quite fast so wehn things go wrong they go very wrong.

If you are talking about mountain biking in the back country I know
that lots of it goes on but I have no first hand knowledge. For my
reference it is pretty irrelevant. I do back country hiking and
climbing that (soemtimes) requires as much as 30 miles of poor mountain
roads to get to the trailhead.

I'm not defending the idea that driving heavy, low mileage vehicles
around town as a fashion statement is a good thing. But, I also think
that folks attacking the vehicles rather than the folks who (mis) use
them is silly. There are lots of folks like me that use high clearance
4 wd vehicles to get places in the back country that are otherwise
pretty unreachable. And I don't feel that this makes me or what I like
to do bad. To my mind it would be much more productive to put the
pressure where it belongs- on the government ot properly define and
enforce fuel standards. I am sure that I they could make (and I would
buy) avehicle that would serve my pruposes and be more fuel efficient.

In rec.bicycles.misc Zoot Katz said:

Eric S. Sande's experience was quite different than that described in
your link. http://tinyurl.com/bnxs8

I imagine the fellow I linked to was riding an MTB with fat tires.
Plus the variable of whether the concrete had started to set at all.

Quoted message said:

I've always heard that real men train on wet concrete.

Heh. Good sigmonster.

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"Vis a vis the subject line, white bread is for kids. Adults use whole
wheat. Real Men(tm) use particle board."
- Ray Heindl in rec.bicycles.tech

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a minor work related incident where my co-workers though I needed to
go to the emergency room (this was a few years ago). The 2-mile ambulance
ride was $350 and the total bill was $1,100 (and all they did was hook me
up
to some monitoring equipment and observe me for a couple hours).

My employer determined it was not covered workman's compensation, and my
managed health care plan only paid $150, so I was stuck paying $950 out of
pocket. Ain't the US health care rationing system great!

YOU were injured, YOU decided to go the the hospital by ambulance ( I don't
imagine your co-workers put a gun to your head), YOU were treated, correct?
So whom do you expect to pay for your treatment? The taxpayers???

Cheto

"Cheto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a minor work related incident where my co-workers though I needed
to
go to the emergency room (this was a few years ago).

YOU were injured, YOU decided to go the the hospital by ambulance ( I
don't imagine your co-workers put a gun to your head), YOU were treated,
correct? So whom do you expect to pay for your treatment? The
taxpayers???

Bingo. He expects the taxpayers to pay for pretty much everything. Right
now he's an entry level professional. As soon as he can, he's going to
default on his student loans and find a way to get on permanent disability
and complain about the government and rich people full-time. He's a
neo-socialist.

Bob the Cow said:

"Cheto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sock Puppet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a minor work related incident where my co-workers though I
needed to
go to the emergency room (this was a few years ago).

YOU were injured, YOU decided to go the the hospital by ambulance ( I
don't imagine your co-workers put a gun to your head), YOU were
treated, correct? So whom do you expect to pay for your treatment? The
taxpayers???

Bingo. He expects the taxpayers to pay for pretty much everything. Right
now he's an entry level professional. As soon as he can, he's
going to default on his student loans and find a way to get on
permanent disability and complain about the government and rich
people full-time. He's a neo-socialist.

That's twice you've painted that little Puppet picture. What do you know
that the rest of us don't?

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I heard this on NPR today. I'm not sure why but I found it humorous.
It seems that in the St. Germain des Pres district of Paris
environmentalists are protesting the presence of monster SUVs by
letting the air out of the tires. They then leave a pamphlet on the
windshield explaining their motives.

I've seen people like this. They're known as "morons." And if SUV owners
don't like bicycle messengers weaving in and out of traffic in cities, what
should they do? Run them down in protest? Sorry, this is amazingly stupid
and will accomplish nothing.

Quoted message said:

Here is a link to today's show (September 13th):
http://theworld.org/latesteditions/09/20050913.shtml
You can listen to the entire show or scroll to the bottom and click on
the "Geo Answer Interview".

In article said:

YOU were injured, YOU decided to go the the hospital by ambulance ( I don't
imagine your co-workers put a gun to your head), YOU were treated, correct?
So whom do you expect to pay for your treatment? The taxpayers???

Why, no -- the doctors. Why should one pay the taxpayers?

Hmm, maybe you meant "who", not "whom"?

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bingo. He expects the taxpayers to pay for pretty much everything. Right
now he's an entry level professional. As soon as he can, he's
going to default on his student loans and find a way to get on
permanent disability and complain about the government and rich
people full-time. He's a neo-socialist.

That's twice you've painted that little Puppet picture. What do you know
that the rest of us don't?

His name is legion. He makes no secret of his opinions and his
entitlements. He and throngs like him are the reason your kids' "Tax
Freedom Day" will be on Christmas Eve by the time they're your age.

"Dave Rusin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmm, maybe you meant "who", not "whom"?

Hey, it was 1:42 AM. Cut me some slack.

Cheto

"Dave Rusin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmm, maybe you meant "who", not "whom"?

Hey, it was 1:42 AM. Cut me some slack.

Cheto

18 Sep 2005 17:35:58 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, "Bob"
<[email hidden]> wrote of deflating tires:

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz wrote:

\

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?
--
zk

Felony? No. Misdemeanor? Yes.

Thanks for taking the time to answer that. I'm guessing that a bicycle
is considered a vehicle by the same statute you cited up-thread but
that it considers bicycles to be of less value so preventing the
subsequent offenses becoming felonies. As enthusiasts, we know that's
not always the case. Or maybe there's some other reason I'm not seeing

How about the second question? <eg>
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?
--
zk

Felony? No. Misdemeanor? Yes.

Thanks for taking the time to answer that. I'm guessing that a bicycle
is considered a vehicle by the same statute you cited up-thread but
that it considers bicycles to be of less value so preventing the
subsequent offenses becoming felonies. As enthusiasts, we know that's
not always the case. Or maybe there's some other reason I'm not seeing

How about the second question? <eg>
--
zk

I'd have to charge the offender caught deflating bicycle tires under a
different "catch all" statute because the statute I cited earlier
refers specifically to *motor* vehicles. It's main legislative intent
was to make it possible to charge a lesser offense than attempted auto
theft on a first offense. (Our legislators believe in rehabilitation,
you see.) Thankfully in this case, the actual wording takes precedence
over legislative intent. BTW, I think there *is* another reason you
aren't seeing. It's all too common for people to tamper with motor
vehicles, let the air out of car tires, break windows, etcetera but
it's highly unusual (at least IME) for people to tamper with bicycles.
Steal them? Sure, but not 'merely' tamper with them and most bike
thefts- even first offenses- are already felonies because of their
monetary value. Writing laws to outlaw every conceivable bad act
results in much less personal liberty, a citizenry that can never be
quite sure they are acting legally, and some really odd laws. We've all
read or heard of laws that make acts like not wearing a hat on a Sunday
a criminal offense. Do we really need anymore of those?
As to your second question, since I have never even heard of anyone
simply letting the air out of a bike tire whether with a malicious or
mischievous intent I really don't know how most cops would handle that
complaint. I'll offer this though- if you and I happen to be catch
someone deflating *your* bike tires I'll be glad to to give them the
same choice I said I'd give the alleged protestors. Pump up the tires
or go to jail. They would of course have to use an old mini-pump with
leaky piston seals and a faulty valve lock to inflate your tires back
up to 130 lbs psi. Wouldn't that be seriously entertaining to watch?
<g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

22 Sep 2005 09:01:55 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, "Bob"

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

Quoted message said:

> Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
> bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?
> --
> zk

Felony? No. Misdemeanor? Yes.

Thanks for taking the time to answer that. I'm guessing that a bicycle
is considered a vehicle by the same statute you cited up-thread but
that it considers bicycles to be of less value so preventing the
subsequent offenses becoming felonies. As enthusiasts, we know that's
not always the case. Or maybe there's some other reason I'm not seeing

How about the second question? <eg>
--
zk

I'd have to charge the offender caught deflating bicycle tires under a
different "catch all" statute because the statute I cited earlier
refers specifically to *motor* vehicles. It's main legislative intent
was to make it possible to charge a lesser offense than attempted auto
theft on a first offense. (Our legislators believe in rehabilitation,
you see.) Thankfully in this case, the actual wording takes precedence
over legislative intent.

As I read it, it specifies motor vehicles "and other vehicles"
'll quote it here:

Quoted message said:

(625 ILCS 5/4-102) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 4-102)
Sec. 4-102. Offenses relating to motor vehicles and other
vehicles - Misdemeanors.

\ yadda yadda

So it would cover motorcycles and backhoes as "motor vehicles" and
"other vehicles" for horse carts or what?

Quoted message said:

BTW, I think there *is* another reason you
aren't seeing. It's all too common for people to tamper with motor
vehicles, let the air out of car tires, break windows, etcetera but
it's highly unusual (at least IME) for people to tamper with bicycles.
Steal them? Sure, but not 'merely' tamper with them and most bike
thefts- even first offenses- are already felonies because of their
monetary value.

Where do all those unlocked wheels and saddles get to then? How'd all
those wheels get tacoed at the bike racks?

Quoted message said:

Writing laws to outlaw every conceivable bad act
results in much less personal liberty, a citizenry that can never be
quite sure they are acting legally, and some really odd laws. We've all
read or heard of laws that make acts like not wearing a hat on a Sunday
a criminal offense. Do we really need anymore of those?

hmmm... maybe if I was a lawyer.

Quoted message said:

As to your second question, since I have never even heard of anyone
simply letting the air out of a bike tire whether with a malicious or
mischievous intent I really don't know how most cops would handle that
complaint. I'll offer this though- if you and I happen to be catch
someone deflating *your* bike tires I'll be glad to to give them the
same choice I said I'd give the alleged protestors. Pump up the tires
or go to jail. They would of course have to use an old mini-pump with
leaky piston seals and a faulty valve lock to inflate your tires back
up to 130 lbs psi. Wouldn't that be seriously entertaining to watch?
<g>

I'll settle for 65 lbs in a pair of Nokian Extreme 294
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

As I read it, it specifies motor vehicles "and other vehicles"
'll quote it here:

Quoted message said:

(625 ILCS 5/4-102) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 4-102)
Sec. 4-102. Offenses relating to motor vehicles and other
vehicles - Misdemeanors.

\ yadda yadda

So it would cover motorcycles and backhoes as "motor vehicles" and
"other vehicles" for horse carts or what?

This reinforces the other point I made about how having too many laws
can really confuse people that don't deal with the law everyday. The
"other vehicles" in this statute are essentially trailers of almost any
type. Bicycles are not covered because they don't meet the definition
of a vehicle under 625 ILCS 5/1-217 which reads:
Sec. 1-217. Vehicle. Every device, in, upon or by which any
person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway or
requiring a certificate of title under Section 3-101(d) of this Code,
*** except devices moved by human power*** (my emphasis added), devices
used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and snowmobiles as
defined in the Snowmobile Registration and Safety Act.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW, I think there *is* another reason you
aren't seeing. It's all too common for people to tamper with motor
vehicles, let the air out of car tires, break windows, etcetera but
it's highly unusual (at least IME) for people to tamper with bicycles.
Steal them? Sure, but not 'merely' tamper with them and most bike
thefts- even first offenses- are already felonies because of their
monetary value.

Where do all those unlocked wheels and saddles get to then? How'd all
those wheels get tacoed at the bike racks?

You're confusing theft and criminal damage to property with tampering.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As to your second question, since I have never even heard of anyone
simply letting the air out of a bike tire whether with a malicious or
mischievous intent I really don't know how most cops would handle that
complaint. I'll offer this though- if you and I happen to be catch
someone deflating *your* bike tires I'll be glad to to give them the
same choice I said I'd give the alleged protestors. Pump up the tires
or go to jail. They would of course have to use an old mini-pump with
leaky piston seals and a faulty valve lock to inflate your tires back
up to 130 lbs psi. Wouldn't that be seriously entertaining to watch?
<g>

I'll settle for 65 lbs in a pair of Nokian Extreme 294

Okay, but for only 65 lbs psi they won't get to use a mini-pump.
They'll have to use an oldfashioned bellows.

Regards,
Bob Hunt