TDF understanding

More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a glass
or two of red (so please forgive any typos or "thinkos"😉:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie teammates
around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
is of any use?

(2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind, not dickstickers/sluggos
you understand)? And the ones who do, is it really justifiable when they have their directeur
sportif (DS) yelling in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the runners
you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their digital watch when crossing the
finishing line, not trusting the $3bn Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely to
record their time to the nanosecond)?

(3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less tactical/strategic nous than those of
yesteryear, given that these days (thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider) the
DS knows everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do and when? What
must it have been like in the old days when the peloton could only figure out who had gone up
the road in a break by counting who was left?

&roo

Quoted message said:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie teammates
around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where
drafting is of any use?

these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps

Andrew Swan said:

More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a
glass or two of red (so please forgive any typos or "thinkos"😉:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie
teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds
where drafting is of any use?

20kph is fast enough to get draughting benefit - which the average speed of a 39 min ascent of
Alpe D'Huez.

Quoted message said:

(2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind, not dickstickers/sluggos
you understand)? And the ones who do, is it really justifiable when they have their directeur
sportif (DS) yelling in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the runners
you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their digital watch when crossing the
finishing line, not trusting the $3bn Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely
to record their time to the nanosecond)?

I heard some riders dont race with a cycle computers, believe it your not. Don't really need it in a
race. Useful in training though.

Quoted message said:

(3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less tactical/strategic nous than those
of yesteryear, given that these days (thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider)
the DS knows everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do and when?
What must it have been like in the old days when the peloton could only figure out who had
gone up the road in a break by counting who was left?

There has been the debate about this over the years, the radio takes away the necessity to think for
themselves in races. Making tactical decisions and team mates communicating with each other out on
the road used to be a part of pro racing. It still is at an amatuer level. Turn pro and become a
zombie, I don't see the sense in that either.

GK

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these speeds and thats
fast enough!!

"stu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie
teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds
where drafting is of any use?

these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps

Quoted post said:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie teammates
around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
is of any use?
[/B]

It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the front, dictating terms to the rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop others from feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most vunerable when they are subjected to a number of attacks one after the other, as it takes more effort to chase down and close the gap than to ride tempo.)

It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down attacks, he just rode faster up the hill than his rivals (faster average). Lance is a different style of leader though...

Quoted message said:

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these speeds and thats
fast enough!!

l never said "Alpe DHuez" or "average". But as they average 20kph up one of the hardest climbs in
the tour. What are there minimum and maximum speeds up the climb? what was there average up the
first climb of the day?

Shabby said:

Quoted message said:

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance having his postie
teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds
where drafting is of any use?

It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the front, dictating terms to the
rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop
others from feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most vunerable when they
are subjected to a number of attacks one after the other, as it takes more effort to chase down and
close the gap than to ride tempo.)

Your last sentence is the most relevant. The tempo is what it is all about. The domestiques protect
the leader by maintaining a tempo which, hopefully, stops needless attacks and allows the leader to
pace himself to the tempo of his domestiques.

If you have 3 or 4 guys taking turns peddling like crazy while your leader sits behind them, it
means very few will have the ability to just accelerate away to the win.

Quoted message said:

It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down attacks, he just rode faster up
the hill than his rivals (faster average). Lance is a different style of leader though...

Indurain = Ullrich on speed... <grin

well Pantanis record up Alpe d'Huez is 37 minutes something or other (Armstrongs is 38'01 a couple
of years ago) and the climb is 14.1kms long...so that gives an average of about 22.2 kms/hr for
Armstrong and a bit faster for Pantani.

Its steeper at the bottom of Alp d'Huez but US Postal were motoring up it if you saw the coverage
(would hate to see how fast they were going) and a lot of riders got shelled. Maybe they were in
the 30s then.

If you saw Virenque suffering he would have still been in the mid-high teens to finish 8 minutes
down on the Mayo..still a good effort!! these guys are super human in comparison to us mere plebs.

"stu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe

DHuez

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these speeds and thats fast
enough!!

l never said "Alpe DHuez" or "average". But as they average 20kph up one

of

Quoted message said:

the hardest climbs in the tour. What are there minimum and maximum speeds

up

Quoted message said:

the climb? what was there average up the first climb of the day?

The year Pantani set the record it was an easy route to L'Alpe D'huez. There were no other climbs,
it was mostly flat all the way till the base. This year they had Mt Galibier, 2 years ago when LA
gave Ullrich "the look" I remember they had 2 huge peaks to climb before L'Alpe.

Don't forget, Pantani was doped to the gills that year.

GK

Scotty said:

well Pantanis record up Alpe d'Huez is 37 minutes something or other (Armstrongs is 38'01 a couple
of years ago) and the climb is 14.1kms long...so that gives an average of about 22.2 kms/hr for
Armstrong and a bit faster for Pantani.

Its steeper at the bottom of Alp d'Huez but US Postal were motoring up it if you saw the coverage
(would hate to see how fast they were going) and a lot of riders got shelled. Maybe they were in
the 30s then.

If you saw Virenque suffering he would have still been in the mid-high teens to finish 8 minutes
down on the Mayo..still a good effort!! these guys are super human in comparison to us mere plebs.

"stu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe

DHuez

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these speeds and thats fast
enough!!

l never said "Alpe DHuez" or "average". But as they average 20kph up one

of

Quoted message said:

the hardest climbs in the tour. What are there minimum and maximum speeds

up

Quoted message said:

the climb? what was there average up the first climb of the day?