General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

The Acid question

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
21 September 2003
Last activity
4 November 2003
Original author
Alan Jones
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  1. The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and carbohydrates content , even
    so there's are other attributes to the nutrients derived from foods. Is there also a case for
    having the issue of 'acids and alkalines' brought into the general public's understandings of a
    balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a balanced diet, the exact nature
    of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to eat fruit and vegetables, without being
    told specifically why. Is it any wonder the young don't eat as healthily as they might, when there
    exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline. The body at its ideal tends
    towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the correct balance of food stuff to help
    maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at the majority of processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of their identifiable links to
    obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go unmentioned. Studies show acid levels in the body to
    have a connection to long term health and disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This
    connection only becomes known, after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are amongst the most
    concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if these social drugs would be
    considered by their users as releases from stress. The point here, is that stress results in the
    increase of the body's acidity, and that these drugs, whilst they may appear to relieve the
    psychological component of stress, still contribute to the metabolism of stress, particularly on
    the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance. I am reminded of a recent
    government health warning against high protein diets, ( which did its best not to go into detail and
    so failed to mention, what I suspect was this acid strain on the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to
    biological conditions which increases the likely hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows
    cancer to be predisposed to an acidic metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy
    diets rich in alkalines.

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element of our diet. That's
    assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I can imagine the vegetable and fruit
    industry, using this idea as the basis for a campaign strategy, and possibly making new information
    with this emphasis, available to schools.

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just Alkalines', using this idea to
    'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be absorbed into the larger chains;
    assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's health. ]

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking and greater exercise;
    isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise? The strain on the health service
    is such that prevention might actually be cheaper than cure. The ideal situation would have pH
    levels, as easily understood information, on the packaging of all foods. The preventative measures
    to address the pH imbalance are plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the
    connections to health..

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo, swilled down with the ubiquitous
    milk shake and fizzy pop?

  2. "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1064170841.8059.0 @iris.uk.clara.net:

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and carbohydrates content , even
    so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from


    the correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look


    at the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only


    becomes known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs


    are amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid


    imbalance. I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, (


    which did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed


    to an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich


    in alkalines.

    Quoted message said:


    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this


    element of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Quoted message said:


    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then


    be absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was


    reappraise? The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the


    connections to health..

    Quoted message said:


    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Why would one care when the acid in the stomach created by the digestive process is used to break
    down food? Then there is vinegar (Acetic acid) which is part of nearly every salad dressing known.

    r

    --
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

  3. --

    "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and carbohydrates content , even
    so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the


    correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at


    the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only becomes


    known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are


    amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance.


    I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which


    did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to


    an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in


    alkalines.

    Quoted message said:


    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element


    of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Quoted message said:


    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be


    absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise?


    The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the connections


    to health..

    Quoted message said:


    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of the blood, fluids, and
    tissues in your body. First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could
    bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline"
    foods. The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system. It generally fails
    only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those
    conditions.

    So, don't worry about the pH of the food you eat. Have a pickle.

    --Rich

  4. "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and carbohydrates content , even
    so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    If I eat something that is alkaline, my pee will turn alkaline and my blood will remain with the
    proper acid-base balance.

    If I eat some that is acid, my pee will turn acid and my blood will remain with the proper
    acid-base balance.

    I live my kidneys.

    Quoted message said:


    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    The reason why people should eat fruits and vegetables is to increase dietary fiber, decrease animal
    fats and get vitamins and minerals that are not in animal products. In addition, there may be other
    cancer-fighting compounds in fruits and vegeatables.

    Quoted message said:

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the


    correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at


    the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    Again, we have kidneys that keep the proper acid-base balance.

    Quoted message said:

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only becomes


    known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Can you provide the peer-reviewed refernces to support your claims?

    Quoted message said:

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are


    amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Again, peer-reviewed research, please. What is "acid strain?" Alcohol is not listed as a cause of
    metabolic acidosis: emedicine.comtopic312.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance.


    I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which


    did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to


    an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in


    alkalines.

    Again, my kidneys will put more acid in my urine, taking care of the acid problem. Please show
    studies in peer-reviewed articles that show otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element


    of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Perhaps the food industry and the FDA don't worry about this because most peopel have kidneys that
    function well enough to take care of acid base problems.

    Quoted message said:

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be


    absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise?


    The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the connections


    to health..

    That would work, except, as mentioned earlier, the kidneys handle the acid base problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Actually, it is usually swilled down with a biggie french frie and huge coke. And after the huge
    coke, there is plenty of fluid to help the kidneys remove any excess acid.

    Jeff

  5. In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of the blood, fluids, and
    : tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume, and
    : instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.

    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.

    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and nothing that can be eaten
    : can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common result the aging process and the
    ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs - such as meat.

    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile acid load is chronically
    placed on the body due to excess acid generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated with chronic metabolic
    acidosis are aging and excessive meat ingestion.''

    - timtyler.orgpmid

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild degrees of acidosis, such as
    that occurring by ingestion of a high animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and
    endocrine effects.''

    - smw.chsmw 09666.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  6. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of the stomach acid and the
    high pH of the intestine? It has no being on the blood pH.

    Quoted message said:


    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume, and
    : instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.


    Food pH is not the issue.

    Quoted message said:


    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.


    Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    Quoted message said:


    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and nothing that can be
    : eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common result the aging process and the
    ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs - such as meat.


    ????? It is common aging process? Wheres the data on that? There is no age related Blood pH scale.
    If there is something wrong with your kidneys or lungs then you have a problem regulating your
    acid-base. People need food to live so I guess you can say that all illness is related to food
    because you die without it. If you have liver or kidney damage or other conditions then you need to
    decrease certain foods because you have a damaged system but in a normal person it has no impact.

    Quoted message said:


    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile acid load is chronically
    placed on the body due to excess acid generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated with chronic metabolic
    acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    "Baloney" comes to mind. With aging you get a decreased glomerular filtration but with a deminised
    muscle mass the cleareance remains fairly constant. Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause
    damage to the tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food. It has more to do with protein exposure.
    Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Quoted message said:


    - timtyler.orgpmid

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild degrees of acidosis, such as
    that occurring by ingestion of a high animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and
    endocrine effects.''


    Which means it is a normal process with normal regulation on how the body handles acid and base
    loads. If you drink excess water the body regulates it and eliminates it ie hormones ADH etc and to
    go the next step and say water is really bad because the body does this is really bizarre. Stick to
    your coral calcium commercials and how it adjusts your bodies pH dude.

    Quoted message said:


    - smw.chsmw 09666.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  7. In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    :> In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :> : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of the blood, fluids,
    :> : and tissues in your body.
    :>
    :> Yes it does.

    : No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of the stomach acid and the
    : high pH of the intestine? It has no being on the blood pH.

    Foodstuffs are defined as being acid or alkaline depending on the effect they have on the
    metabolism.

    The original poster clearly understood thas - writing: "fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions
    are predominately alkaline."

    Now, put some litmus paper on oranges, apples and lemons and you will find them to have
    rather low pHs.

    You are right that the pH of the food as measured by litmus on the food matters little. However that
    is not what was being discussed. What was under discussion was the acidity/alkalinity of the food as
    defined by its effect on metabolism.

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    members.aol.comfoods.htm

    :> : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume,
    :> : and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.
    :>
    :> Stomach pH is not the issue.
    :
    : Food pH is not the issue.

    Yes - but not the pH measured using litmus paper on the food.

    The acidily or alkilinity of foods in the context of this sort of discussion is defined differently
    - it is related to the PH of the digestible components after metabolism - e.g.:

    ``All foods are “burned” in the body - more commonly called “digested” - leaving an ash as the
    result of the “burning”, or the digestion. This food ash can be neutral, acid or alkaline, depending
    largely on the mineral composition of the foods.''

    :> : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.
    :>
    :> Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.
    :
    : Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    ...but it /does/ - that's the whole point of the scale.

    : Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the tubules it has nothing to do with pH
    : of food.

    Not as measured by litmus on the food, no.

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    : It has more to do with protein exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Proteins tend to be acid foodstuffs.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  8. see below

    Robert said:

    "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of the stomach acid and the
    high pH of the intestine? It has no being on the blood pH.

    Quoted message said:


    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume,
    : and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.


    Food pH is not the issue.

    Quoted message said:


    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.


    Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    Quoted message said:


    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and nothing that can be
    : eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common result the aging process and
    the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs - such as meat.


    ????? It is common aging process? Wheres the data on that? There is no age related Blood pH
    scale. If there is something wrong with your kidneys or lungs then you have a problem regulating
    your acid-base. People need food to live so I guess you can say that all illness is related to
    food because you die without it. If you have liver or kidney damage or other conditions then you
    need to decrease certain foods because you have a damaged system but in a normal person it has
    no impact.

    Quoted message said:


    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile acid load is chronically
    placed on the body due to excess acid generation or diminished acid removal by normal
    homeostatic mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated with chronic
    metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    "Baloney" comes to mind. With aging you get a decreased glomerular filtration but with a deminised
    muscle mass the cleareance remains fairly constant. Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause
    damage to the tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food. It has more to do with protein
    exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Quoted message said:


    - timtyler.orgpmid

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild degrees of acidosis, such
    as that occurring by ingestion of a high animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic
    and endocrine effects.''


    Which means it is a normal process with normal regulation on how the body handles acid and base
    loads. If you drink excess water the body regulates it and eliminates it ie hormones ADH etc and
    to go the next step and say water is really bad because the body does this is really bizarre.
    Stick to your coral calcium commercials and how it adjusts your bodies pH dude.

    snipped

    The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND the Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING
    to do with it...However if there is ACID in the air..there MAY be a problem, However even then it
    may be difficult to "acidify" the blood. The Kidneys are even a better and more serious source..as
    IF the Lungs cannot supply enough Oxygen to the Kidneys VIA the heart then there is trouble in
    River city.

    My wife recently died due to a problem involving oxygenation as the Heart could NOT supply
    enough due to a collapsed left ventrical. Her lungs had also been "challenged" many times by
    Pneumonia caused by several insults to her lungs. It took two long years of MISERY beyond
    definition for her to finally accept her Spirit-Guides' hands to Guide her to the next step in
    the 5th level of what we call "heaven". In one bref contact..she was enjoying READING as her
    eyes had always been inflicted with severe near sitedness due to un-guarded measles as a child.
    She was the Mother of 4 beautiful girls however. We miss her greatly! B-0b1

  9. In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND the Kidneys/ Food has
    : NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the industrialized countries is mild chronic
    metabolic acidosis caused by the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are metabolized to
    organic acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately 100 meq of acid
    every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been proved to cause aciduria and calciuria as a
    consequence of acidosis and thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau et al. 1988,
    Schuette et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric acid are another
    acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among young people (Barzel 1995). [...]''

    - herkules.oulu.fix193.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  10. Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises the effect of a food's pH,
    is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still place a "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the
    kidneys. What happens when through a faulty life style and poor information the bulk of that load
    is acid forming?

    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and eliminate a certain about
    of acids. "

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units a day. One pound of meat
    can generate as much as 18 units of uric acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the
    18 units of uric acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    groups.google.comgroups

    healthlibrary.comchap11.htm

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention is better than cure' comes
    readily to mind. Prevention lies with the information about us and our willingness to take heed.

    "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and carbohydrates content , even
    so there's are other attributes to the nutrients derived from foods. Is there also a case for
    having the issue of 'acids and alkalines' brought into the general public's understandings of a
    balanced diet?

    If I eat something that is alkaline, my pee will turn alkaline and my blood will remain with the
    proper acid-base balance.

    If I eat some that is acid, my pee will turn acid and my blood will remain with the proper
    acid-base balance.

    I live my kidneys.

    Quoted message said:


    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a balanced diet, the exact
    nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to eat fruit and vegetables,
    without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the young don't eat as healthily as they
    might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    The reason why people should eat fruits and vegetables is to increase dietary fiber, decrease
    animal fats and get vitamins and minerals that are not in animal products. In addition, there may
    be other cancer-fighting compounds in fruits and vegeatables.

    Quoted message said:

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline. The body at its ideal
    tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the correct balance of food stuff
    to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at the majority of processed food stuffs.

    Again, we have kidneys that keep the proper acid-base balance.

    Quoted message said:

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of their identifiable links
    to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go unmentioned. Studies show acid levels in the
    body to have a connection to long term health and disease; yet this goes largely unspecified.
    This connection only becomes known, after the event.

    Can you provide the peer-reviewed refernces to support your claims?

    Quoted message said:

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are amongst the most
    concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if these social drugs would be
    considered by their users as releases from stress. The point here, is that stress results in the
    increase of the body's acidity, and that these drugs, whilst they may appear to relieve the
    psychological component of stress, still contribute to the metabolism of stress, particularly on
    the liver.

    Again, peer-reviewed research, please. What is "acid strain?" Alcohol is not listed as a cause of
    metabolic acidosis: emedicine.comtopic312.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance. I am reminded of a
    recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which did its best not to go into
    detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this acid strain on the liver. ) An acid
    imbalance leads to biological conditions which increases the likely hood for all kinds of
    diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to an acidic metabolism. At the same time the
    longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in alkalines.

    Again, my kidneys will put more acid in my urine, taking care of the acid problem. Please show
    studies in peer-reviewed articles that show otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element of our diet. That's
    assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I can imagine the vegetable and
    fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a campaign strategy, and possibly making new
    information with this emphasis, available to schools.

    Perhaps the food industry and the FDA don't worry about this because most peopel have kidneys that
    function well enough to take care of acid base problems.

    Quoted message said:

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just Alkalines', using this idea
    to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be absorbed into the larger
    chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's health. ]

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking and greater exercise;
    isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise? The strain on the health
    service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper than cure. The ideal situation would
    have pH levels, as easily understood information, on the packaging of all foods. The
    preventative measures to address the pH imbalance are plentiful enough, providing the public
    knows in advance of the connections to health..

    That would work, except, as mentioned earlier, the kidneys handle the acid base problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo, swilled down with the
    ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Actually, it is usually swilled down with a biggie french frie and huge coke. And after the huge
    coke, there is plenty of fluid to help the kidneys remove any excess acid.

    Jeff

  11. "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises the effect of a food's
    pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still


    place a

    Quoted message said:

    "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when through a faulty life style and
    poor information the bulk of that load is acid


    forming?

    Quoted message said:


    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and eliminate a certain about of
    acids. "

    True. However, humans evolved with a variety of diets in a variety of areas of the world. Limited
    does not mean that we come anywhere near the limites without normal diets.

    Quoted message said:

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units
    a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
    acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units of


    uric

    Quoted message said:

    acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    Actaully, the anwer is urine. Uric acid, urea and other wastes is why we pee.

    Quoted message said:


    groups.google.comgroups

    Quoted message said:


    healthlibrary.comchap11.htm

    This site is totally stupid. I already mentioned, the kidneys get rid of excess acid in urine.

    you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed journal articles, not stupid
    web sites.

    Quoted message said:

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention is better than cure'
    comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the


    information

    Quoted message said:

    about us and our willingness to take heed.

    Can you provide evidence that in people without known kidney disease, too much meat leads to kidney
    or liver damage? In people with kidney disease, it is known that limiting protein prolongs the life
    of the kidneys.

    Jeff

  12. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    Only when the kidneys are not functioning properly.

    Quoted message said:

    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume, and
    : instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.

    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.

    Of course it is not foolproof. But it works so well that normally we don't need to worry about blood
    or body pH.

    Quoted message said:

    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and nothing that can be
    : eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common result the aging process and the
    ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs - such as meat.

    Evidence that is not particularly uncommon please, like peer-reviewed articles.

    Quoted message said:

    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile acid load is chronically
    placed on the body due to excess acid generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated with chronic metabolic
    acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    Quoted message said:


    - timtyler.orgpmid

    For this paper to apply, you have to have a metabolic problem. A regular diet does not count. Or a
    major kidney problem.

    Quoted message said:

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild degrees of acidosis, such as
    that occurring by ingestion of a high animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and
    endocrine effects.''

    - smw.chsmw 09666.html

    This is a peer-reviewed article. However, if you read carefully the who article, words like
    "possibly" keep popping up. It is by no means proven that your hypothesis is true. In addition,
    there are far more important things to do for health, like eat less and excercise.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  13. Quoted message said:

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    Thanks for riding in to my defence. My intentions with the post was to promote discussion but also
    to find what level of understanding exist on the matter. The discussion so far illustrates the point
    I made with my original post., namely that too little is known (beyond alternative health circles)
    on the acid / alkaline nature of foodstuffs. As you spotted, my intended meaning when talking about
    the pH of foodstuff, was for their effects upon our metabolism.

    For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons mid way through a match,
    actually serves a purpose. Even though those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the citric
    acid they contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to reduce the build up of
    lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

    In a recent health warning (UK), the public were warned against taking too much vitamin supplements,
    again there was no attempt to explain precisely why this edict was issued. Yet consider vitamin C,
    which the culture makes clear is good for us [free radicals etc]. It has the effect of increasing
    acidity in an acid bias system, ironically cancelling out the akalining effect of fruit drinks where
    Vitamin C is added. Like wise Vitamin D in an alkaline system has the effect of increasing
    alkalinity.

    The above are used to illustrate the acid / alkaline effect of foodstuff. Perhaps if we thought of
    food as we think of medicines, we might lean to see these foods stuffs as having an affect beyond
    simple nutrition.

    Quoted message said:

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    members.aol.comfoods.htm

    I've spotted variations of these tables on the web, non however attempt to list the various items
    according the degree of acid or alkalinity they promote. Its this level of information that I would
    like to see included with foodstuffs. Here's another list for you.

    digitalnaturopath.comacid alkaline.html

    "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    :> In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :> : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of the blood, fluids,
    :> : and tissues in your body.
    :>
    :> Yes it does.

    : No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of the stomach acid and
    : the high pH of the intestine? It has no being on the blood pH.

    Foodstuffs are defined as being acid or alkaline depending on the effect they have on the
    metabolism.

    The original poster clearly understood thas - writing: "fruits and vegetables, with a few
    exceptions are predominately alkaline."

    Now, put some litmus paper on oranges, apples and lemons and you will find them to have rather
    low pHs.

    You are right that the pH of the food as measured by litmus on the food matters little. However
    that is not what was being discussed. What was under discussion was the acidity/alkalinity of the
    food as defined by its effect on metabolism.

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    members.aol.comfoods.htm

    :> : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume,
    :> : and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods.
    :>
    :> Stomach pH is not the issue.
    :
    : Food pH is not the issue.

    Yes - but not the pH measured using litmus paper on the food.

    The acidily or alkilinity of foods in the context of this sort of discussion is defined
    differently - it is related to the PH of the digestible components after metabolism - e.g.:

    ``All foods are “burned” in the body - more commonly called “digested” - leaving an ash as the
    result of the “burning”, or the digestion. This food ash can be neutral, acid or alkaline,
    depending largely on the mineral composition of the foods.''

    :> : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.
    :>
    :> Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.
    :
    : Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    ...but it /does/ - that's the whole point of the scale.

    : Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the tubules it has nothing to do with pH
    : of food.

    Not as measured by litmus on the food, no.

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    : It has more to do with protein exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Proteins tend to be acid foodstuffs.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  14. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND


    the

    Quoted message said:

    : Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the industrialized countries is mild
    chronic metabolic acidosis caused by the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are
    metabolized to organic acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately
    100 meq of acid every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been proved to cause aciduria
    and calciuria as a consequence of acidosis and thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau
    et al. 1988, Schuette et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric acid
    are another acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among young people (Barzel 1995).
    [...]''

    - herkules.oulu.fix193.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

    Going around in circles here. Yes, an increase acid load causes an increase acid release in urine.
    They call it normal physiology. An increase in base gives you a higher pH in urine. Dogs are a good
    example where you see alkaline stones such as ammonium phosphate formation whereas in humans the
    acid stones of calcium oxalate are common. In dogs base is the problem and in humans it's acid, so
    what. Any person with kidney stones would tell how unproductive diet is in avoiding stone formation.
    The best thing to do is drink plenty of water to dilute anything there but rest assured to total
    acid load excretion is the same only diluted in the volume.

  15. "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    Thanks for riding in to my defence. My intentions with the post was to promote discussion but also
    to find what level of understanding exist on the matter. The discussion so far illustrates the
    point I made with my original post., namely that too little is known (beyond alternative health
    circles) on the acid / alkaline nature of foodstuffs. As you


    spotted,

    Quoted message said:

    my intended meaning when talking about the pH of foodstuff, was for their effects upon our
    metabolism.

    (...)

    Too little may be known, but that does not mean that our kidneys do not do an adequate job or that
    there are more important things to focus on.

    Jeff

  16. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND


    the

    Quoted message said:

    : Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the industrialized countries is mild
    chronic metabolic acidosis caused by the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are
    metabolized to organic acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately
    100 meq of acid every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been proved to cause aciduria
    and calciuria as a consequence of acidosis and thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau
    et al. 1988, Schuette et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric acid
    are another acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among young people (Barzel 1995).
    [...]''

    - herkules.oulu.fix193.html
    --

    It does not follow that a diet a that is rich in animal protein usually or even often leads to a
    mild chronic acidosis or that this is harmful.

    Again, it is far more improtant that people do other things, like avoid obesity and be more active.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  17. In said:

    Of course it is not foolproof. But it works so well that normally we don't need to worry about
    blood or body pH.

    When we do, it's almost always respiratory.

    --
    | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | it more difficult for a
    | software vendor to induce customers to pay | for new products or new versions of existing
    | products." |
    end

  18. "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    Thanks for riding in to my defence. My intentions with the post was to promote discussion but also
    to find what level of understanding exist on the matter. The discussion so far illustrates the
    point I made with my original post., namely that too little is known (beyond alternative health
    circles) on the acid / alkaline nature of foodstuffs. As you


    spotted,

    Quoted message said:

    my intended meaning when talking about the pH of foodstuff, was for their effects upon our
    metabolism.

    Ok try to generalize this then, animals exist only because of oxygen and hydrogen otherwise kown as
    the hydrogen ion also known as acid. The H+ is added to oxygen in every energy generating cell with
    the result of formation of water.

    Quoted message said:


    For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons mid way through a match,
    actually serves a purpose. Even though those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the
    citric acid they contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to reduce the build
    up of lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

    Reduce the build up of lactic acid? Lactic acid is formed when an inadequate amount of oxygen is
    found in the muscle so instead of the acid H+ combining with oxygen to form water it is converted to
    lactic acid. Lactic acidosis is not an acid base problem as much as a poor circulation, lack of
    oxygen. If you eat fruit then you consume acid or the hydrogen ions. They do not disappear. You are
    confusing injestion of the salt or lactate not lactic acid which is in fact converted into
    bicarbonate. Lactated ringers solution are used often.

    Quoted message said:


    In a recent health warning (UK), the public were warned against taking too much vitamin
    supplements, again there was no attempt to explain precisely why this edict was issued. Yet
    consider vitamin C, which the culture makes clear is good for us [free radicals etc]. It has
    the effect


    of

    Quoted message said:

    increasing acidity in an acid bias system, ironically cancelling out the akalining effect of fruit
    drinks where Vitamin C is added. Like wise Vitamin D in an alkaline system has the effect of
    increasing alkalinity.

    The above are used to illustrate the acid / alkaline effect of foodstuff. Perhaps if we thought of
    food as we think of medicines, we might lean to see these foods stuffs as having an affect beyond
    simple nutrition.

    To be checking your urine to see if it is acidic and then saying you have metabolic acidosis because
    of it is strange. If you want to label foods that make your urine more base than go for it. It is
    normal to have acid urine and metabolic acidosis and alkalosis is determined medically by a blood
    gas analysis and not the pH of urine. You might want to get them to label food based on your blood
    type also. Go for it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    members.aol.comfoods.htm

    I've spotted variations of these tables on the web, non however attempt to list the various items
    according the degree of acid or alkalinity they promote. Its this level of information that I
    would like to see included with foodstuffs. Here's another list for you.

    digitalnaturopath.comacid alkaline.html

    "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    :> In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :> : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH


    levels

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    :> : of the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.
    :>
    :> Yes it does.

    : No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    : the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine? It has no being on the blood pH.

    Foodstuffs are defined as being acid or alkaline depending on the effect they have on the
    metabolism.

    The original poster clearly understood thas - writing: "fruits and vegetables, with a few
    exceptions are predominately alkaline."

    Now, put some litmus paper on oranges, apples and lemons and you will find them to have rather
    low pHs.

    You are right that the pH of the food as measured by litmus on the food matters little. However
    that is not what was being discussed. What was under discussion was the acidity/alkalinity of
    the food as defined by its effect on metabolism.

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    members.aol.comfoods.htm

    :> : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    :> : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline)


    ions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    :> : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.
    :>
    :> Stomach pH is not the issue.
    :
    : Food pH is not the issue.

    Yes - but not the pH measured using litmus paper on the food.

    The acidily or alkilinity of foods in the context of this sort of discussion is defined
    differently - it is related to the PH of the digestible components after metabolism - e.g.:

    ``All foods are "burned" in the body - more commonly called "digested" - leaving an ash as the
    result of the "burning", or the digestion. This food ash can be neutral, acid or alkaline,
    depending largely on the mineral composition of the foods.''

    :> : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system.
    :>
    :> Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.
    :
    : Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    ...but it /does/ - that's the whole point of the scale.

    : Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the tubules it has nothing to do with
    : pH of food.

    Not as measured by litmus on the food, no.

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the terminology the OP was intending.

    : It has more to do with protein exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Proteins tend to be acid foodstuffs.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]


  19. In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : Any person with kidney stones would tell how unproductive diet is in avoiding stone formation. The
    : best thing to do is drink plenty of water to dilute anything there but rest assured to total acid
    : load excretion is the same only diluted in the volume.

    ``Kidney Stones: Diet Is Important for Prevention''

    The factors involved in the formation of kidney stones vary. One dietary factor is an excess of
    refined sugars and carbohydrates. This causes the pancreas to secrete more insulin, which in turn
    causes more calcium to be excreted in the urine. When an increase in the concentration of one of
    the stone forming minerals is present, the likelihood of stone formation increases.''

    - healthyroads.comart kidneystones.asp

    ``Changing your diet can dramatically reduce your risk of making more kidney stones.''

    - marinurology.comdietary.htm
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  20. "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises the effect of a food's
    pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still


    place a

    Quoted message said:

    "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when through a faulty life style and
    poor information the bulk of that load is acid


    forming?

    Quoted message said:


    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and eliminate a certain about
    of acids. "

    True. However, humans evolved with a variety of diets in a variety of areas of the world. Limited
    does not mean that we come anywhere near the limites without normal diets.

    Quoted message said:

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units
    a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
    acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units of


    uric

    Quoted message said:

    acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    Actaully, the anwer is urine. Uric acid, urea and other wastes is why we pee.

    Quoted message said:


    groups.google.comgroups

    Quoted message said:


    healthlibrary.comchap11.htm

    This site is totally stupid. I already mentioned, the kidneys get rid of excess acid in urine.

    That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is when a person has too much uric
    acid which can't be eliminated and it forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause
    agony in the sufferer.

    I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about treating this condition because I
    once knew a bloke who got regular attacks which were very debilitating, causing him to have to stay
    home with his feet up. He had been to the top rheumatic specialists in Australia and they prescribed
    a drug called butazoladene (sp?) which wouldn't stop an attack once it occurred, just prevented an
    attack. However the side effects were dangerous if he took too much of the drug.

    I told him about sodium phosphate and sodium sulphate tablets which he took a couple each day for a
    year and never got an attack during that period. Then he did an experiment and went off them and the
    attacks began to return. He ended up swearing by the cellsalts and said he would recommend them to
    any other sufferer of the condition, over the drugs.

    Sodium phosphate is known as the acid neutraliser and sodium sulphate removes poison charged fluids
    from the cells, the poison I assume is waste products from food metabolism.

    Quoted message said:

    you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed journal articles, not stupid
    web sites.

    [censored]. Everybody knows that conventional medicine is geared towards pharmaceutical drugs and
    denies the efficacy of foods, vitamins and minerals in treating conditions.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention is better than cure'
    comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the


    information

    Quoted message said:

    about us and our willingness to take heed.

    Can you provide evidence that in people without known kidney disease, too much meat leads to
    kidney or liver damage? In people with kidney disease, it is known that limiting protein prolongs
    the life of the kidneys.

    Just open your eyes and ears to all the chronic disease in our society which modern medicine is at a
    complete loss to cure. Work it out for yourself - modern medicine isn't going to "spill the beans"
    on itself, is it?

    Modern medicine is unable to cure asthma, allergies, dementia, arthritis, rheumatism, diabetes and
    so on. All chronic diseases resulting from faulty diets - but they won't tell you that, you figure
    it out from reading alternative health information and thinking for yourself.

    Carole austarmetro.com.aucellsalts.htm

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