The Power Ratio and Training

the_ryder said:

On a level grade the rider who can generate more power more easily is simply the stronger (oftentimes slightly heavier) rider. I am 5'9 and weigh 135 pounds, thereby placing me within the 1:2 ratio. My home is in the SF Bay Area (very hilly area) but I go to school in Los Angeles (which is, in effect, a flat basin). I am worried that it will be extremely difficult for me to keep up with other riders in Southern California. Can anyone suggest training options or sources or information that can help give me an edge in powering through the flats? Any tips that could help me prevent being left in the dust would be great 🙂

Draft the faster riders and you should be fine if you have decent fitness. it's hard to get left behind on the flats, and in a group. the breaks are almost always at a hill or long climb because most everyone in the pack can just hang in the draft.

the_ryder said:

I've been reading training articles lately and came across a topic that worried me a little bit - the power to weight ratio. As I'm sure a lot of you know, the jist of this concept is that you want to be able to put a maximum amount of work into moving the lightest possible weight. In general, this optimum threshold occurs when a rider weighs about twice his height. This concept is extremely important when it comes to hills because it means that a lighter rider can generate a wattage equal to that of a heavier rider with less effort (i.e. the lighter rider can overcome the effects of gravity more easily). There is, then, a definite advantage to being lighter when in hilly terrain, but my concern is regarding the flatter aspects of a ride...

On a level grade the rider who can generate more power more easily is simply the stronger (oftentimes slightly heavier) rider. I am 5'9 and weigh 135 pounds, thereby placing me within the 1:2 ratio. My home is in the SF Bay Area (very hilly area) but I go to school in Los Angeles (which is, in effect, a flat basin). I am worried that it will be extremely difficult for me to keep up with other riders in Southern California. Can anyone suggest training options or sources or information that can help give me an edge in powering through the flats? Any tips that could help me prevent being left in the dust would be great 🙂

First let's sort out your comments a little - your bottom line is correct, but, for example, it is incorrect that a lighter rider can generate wattage equal to a heavier rider with less effort. The "base measure" for power is watts/kg, where the watts represents a "1 hour sustainable output". Now for a lot of us, our best effort works out around 4 w/kg. (Better riders generate more - pros up to 6.5 w/kg, but many of us in the power forum, despite training, are in the 3.6-3.8 w/kg range, trying to get to 4 w/kg.) Given your weight, 4 w/kg works out to 245 watts. Since climbing is largely impacted by gravity (and thus by your weight) if you can generate 4 w/kg you will outclimb (on long enough climbs) most or all riders generating lower w/kg. So for example, you will drop the 175 lb rider who can produce 275 watts; even though his "raw" power exceeds yours (in my example), his w/kg is less than 3.5 w/kg. But on flat ground, the relevant measure is not w/kg, but watts/frontal area, since air drag is the issue. Unfortunately the 175 lb rider doesn't have much more frontal area than you do, so now his raw 275 watts carry him along faster than your 245 watts. That's why, as a generality, light riders are not good TT riders. Pros like Hamilton and Leipheimer are the exceptions to the rule, the majority of TT specialists are large guys. And that's why on the flat (or downhill) the best advice is to hang onto a good wheel (or increase your power output). You can find a lot of related math on the analyticcycling website (can't remember if its analyticcycling or analyticalcycling). And the reason I've pondered this one a lot is that I weigh 138 lbs...

Find any/all hill-elevation gains in the LA. area as you can , and do them. Also, a front aero wheel can help with going faster on flats, etc.- but that is equipment. Eat qulaity food , and go out there and hammer 🙂

What this issue really comes down to is the physics of cycling. You will clearly have an advantage climbing, because as palewin noted it is w/kg that matters because the resistance you need to overcome is gravity. On the flat or downhill, you lose your advantage because the resistance you need to overcome is air resistance and watts/frontal area is what matters. Apart from noting that more power is always a good thing, my only "technique" suggestion is to become very good at getting into a very efficient aero position so you can cut your frontal area as much as possible. This takes some work and practice and you may need to change your bike setup somewhat to achieve a highly aero position. It's easy to get aero. It's hard to get aero and put out maximum power for a long time. You might also want to look at your wheels. You can gain more speed at a given power with wheels than with all other components combined. Forget about lightening your bike -- it doesn't matter much.

Alright so it looks like some suggestions are:

1) possibly aero bars
2) getting myself as streamline as possible, but still being able to crank efficiently
3) take major advantage of drafting

As far as finding a comfortable aero position - the further you sit back on your saddle the more leverage you have on the pedals, right? As long as you stay properly seated in the saddle is the degree to which you bend your back down independent of your pushing power? The only major problem I can see with being very aero all the time is how open your chest is for breathing...maybe it's just something you get used to though. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

the_ryder said:

Alright so it looks like some suggestions are:

1) possibly aero bars

Only in a TT, because using aero bars in a mass start RR is too dangerous.
[quote="the_ryder"]2) getting myself as streamline as possible, but still being able to crank efficiently[/QOUTE]Only when you need to, such as bridging a gap. You'll have to do some position testing to find out how to produce your max power while being very aero.

the_ryder said:

3) take major advantage of drafting

the_ryder said:

As far as finding a comfortable aero position - the further you sit back on your saddle the more leverage you have on the pedals, right? As long as you stay properly seated in the saddle is the degree to which you bend your back down independent of your pushing power? The only major problem I can see with being very aero all the time is how open your chest is for breathing...maybe it's just something you get used to though. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.