The Times on Tammy Thomas

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Mister Max, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. Mister Max

    Mister Max Guest

    "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
    Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

    It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
    York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    - or you could buy the paper.

    She's now a power lifter and looks it.

    "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."



    --
    MisterMax
    http://buten.net/max/
    (Yes,RemoveDoubles is part of my email address. The double letters in my
    last name are not.)
     
    Tags:


  2. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    And she has this comment as well:

    Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether steroid
    use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
    years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes live
    a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"

    "Mister Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
    > Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    > delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    > positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    > broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."
    >
    > It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
    > York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    > - or you could buy the paper.
    >
    > She's now a power lifter and looks it.
    >
    > "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > MisterMax
    > http://buten.net/max/
    > (Yes,RemoveDoubles is part of my email address. The double letters in my
    > last name are not.)
     
  3. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
    deception, the hopeless lawsuits...

    The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  4. warren

    warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Bob Schwartz
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
    > deception, the hopeless lawsuits...
    >
    > The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.


    ....and still in search of an electric razor that shaves as close as a
    blade.

    -WG
     
  5. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
    > deception, the hopeless lawsuits...
    >
    > The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz
    > [email protected]


    But......she's applying to law school in Mississippi. Reminds me of an old
    issue of National Lampoon devoted to lawyers. They had a mock cover of the
    Miss. Bar Journal "The Mississippi Bartender. Tending the Needs of the
    Mississippi Bar."
     
  6. K. J. Papai

    K. J. Papai Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>...
    > And she has this comment as well:
    >
    > Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether steroid
    > use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
    > years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes live
    > a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"


    Look out -- she's likely headed to Law School too.

    -Ken

    > "Mister Max"@216.196.97.136...
    > > "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
    > > Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    > > delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    > > positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    > > broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."
    > >
    > > It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
    > > York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    > > - or you could buy the paper.
    > >
    > > She's now a power lifter and looks it.
    > >
    > > "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."
     
  7. Mister Max <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
    > Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    > delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    > positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    > broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."
    >
    > It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
    > York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    > - or you could buy the paper.
    >
    > She's now a power lifter and looks it.
    >
    > "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."


    very interesting article - thanks for posting this.

    -RJ
     
  8. burt hoovis

    burt hoovis Guest

    Mister Max <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
    > Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    > delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    > positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    > broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."
    >
    > It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
    > York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    > - or you could buy the paper.
    >
    > She's now a power lifter and looks it.
    >
    > "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."



    That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
    read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
    that she cheated. She'd rather spend her energy pursuing legal
    battles against the people who exposed her for the cheat that she is.

    What a pathetic example of humanity.
     
  9. What a sad and pathetic person the article depicts. And she's now
    competing in a sport without dope testing.

    It's not hard to understand why Dr. Catlin has her picture posted at
    the lab...

    Zub
     
  10. Her delusion can be summed up in one paragraph:

    "she occasionally takes ephedra, an adrenaline-like stimulant that has been
    linked to cases of heart attack, stroke and sudden death. The sale of
    ephedra has been banned by the Food and Drug Administration. "I haven't
    taken it in a couple of weeks," she said. "Isn't that good?" "

    -T
     
  11. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "burt hoovis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mister Max <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous

    cheers.
    > > Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
    > > delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
    > > positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
    > > broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."
    > >
    > > It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's

    New
    > > York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
    > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
    > > - or you could buy the paper.
    > >
    > > She's now a power lifter and looks it.
    > >
    > > "track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

    >
    >
    > That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
    > read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
    > that she cheated.


    Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
    all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
    has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
    point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
    that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
    recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
    the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
    accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.


    She'd rather spend her energy pursuing legal
    > battles against the people who exposed her for the cheat that she is.


    Wait till she gets out of law school.........
    >
    > What a pathetic example of humanity.


    Among many, and not nearly as bad as some.
     
  12. Ernst Noch

    Ernst Noch Guest

    B. Lafferty wrote:

    >
    > Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
    > all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
    > has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
    > point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
    > that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
    > recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
    > the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
    > accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.


    IANAL, but the way I know this is as a principle in law that you don't
    pass laws which a lot of people won't obey, as enforcing that law leads
    to uncontrollability of the executive branch. Basically they then can
    chose against whom they apply this law. Like the theory that THEY can
    get everyone for breaking tax law, if they really want badly enough. Cf.
    Al Capone Tax evasion theory.
     
  13. "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
    > deception, the hopeless lawsuits...
    >
    > The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz
    > [email protected]


    I feel sorry for her, but she did it to herself. She's not the most
    self-aware person in the world. And she still takes drugs, so it makes you
    wonder. It's kind of pathetic when someone's life revolves around only one
    thing.
     
  14. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > And she has this comment as well:
    >
    > Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether

    steroid
    > use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
    > years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes

    live
    > a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"



    And she is right of course. For instance, a Belgian journalist I know well
    has discovered that a female discus-thrower living in Berkeley had been
    caught at the Mexican-American border with 800 tablets Winstrol (a steroid
    usually only used for horses). Because she claimed it was for personal use
    (in fact it was for the whole team) she had only to pay a fine. But of
    course the fact that she had been in possession of steroids she was
    registered in police records. Nevertheless, she didn't have any trouble, she
    wasn't suspended or anything like that and she was free to participate to
    the Olympics in Los Angeles - where she won a gold.

    Benjo Maso
     
  15. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
    > > read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
    > > that she cheated.


    > Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
    > all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
    > has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
    > point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
    > that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
    > recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
    > the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
    > accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.


    That's a bullshit excuse, or rationalization, on her part. She can't
    _know_ that everyone else is doping. She does know that it's still
    cheating, and rationalizes her own weakness and abuse of herself and
    the sport by the "everyone is doing it" defense. If everyone else is
    cheating, quitting is more honorable than joining the cheaters - what
    is the value of a goal achieved by cheating? Other than getting
    yourself on the Wheaties box, which I don't think TT was ever a prime
    candidate for.)

    It's widely claimed that clean riders retired in the early 90s because
    they didn't want to keep up with the EPO abuse they suspected in the
    peloton - I think you've cited Hampsten as one, and held him up as an
    exemplar. That was more honorable than joining in the EPO blitz, IMO.

    Now, if Thomas wanted to complain because she was treated more harshly
    than track and field superstars, or baseball players, guilty of similar
    abuse, that might have some validity. But blaming her competitors
    (anyone remember all the shit Witty had to put up with to get to the
    Olympics?) and suing Catlin and the testing lab is BS. TT places blame
    on the testers rather than on the people who introduced her to the drugs
    (whom she could presumably name, which might be interesting).
    Unfortunately, it's not clear that she's learned anything.
     
  16. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > > That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
    > > > read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
    > > > that she cheated.

    >
    > > Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes

    that
    > > all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While

    she
    > > has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
    > > point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a

    law
    > > that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
    > > recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice

    becomes
    > > the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
    > > accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.

    >
    > That's a bullshit excuse, or rationalization, on her part. She can't
    > _know_ that everyone else is doping.


    You do recall that Dickey V. basically said that it was normal preparation
    in cycling to use drugs. He didn't consider it cheating. It was
    "preparation."

    > She does know that it's still
    > cheating, and rationalizes her own weakness and abuse of herself and
    > the sport by the "everyone is doing it" defense.


    It's only cheating because those in control of the sport have said it is.
    Consider that some claim that those at the top of certain national sports
    federations have turned a blind or complicit eye to the use of drugs (UCI
    and US Track and Field, East Germany as a few examples)

    >If everyone else is
    > cheating, quitting is more honorable than joining the cheaters - what
    > is the value of a goal achieved by cheating?


    Or, do as everyone else and make big $$$$$$ which is really the goal. The
    evidence would support the argument that "cheating" is quite effective in
    acheiving the $$ goal.

    > Other than getting
    > yourself on the Wheaties box, which I don't think TT was ever a prime
    > candidate for.)


    The pecuniary rewards vary. In TT's case she would have been able to
    continue making something resembling a "living" as a cyclist with that
    lifestyle intact. With a Gold she might even publish as training
    book---wouldn't that have been interesting?

    >
    > It's widely claimed that clean riders retired in the early 90s because
    > they didn't want to keep up with the EPO abuse they suspected in the
    > peloton - I think you've cited Hampsten as one, and held him up as an
    > exemplar. That was more honorable than joining in the EPO blitz, IMO.


    A number of riders did retire at the beginning of the 90s. Hampsten did not
    retire because of EPO, IIRC. In an interview with Cycling Weekly in the
    mid-1990s, he spoke of knowing of drug use early on and deciding, with the
    support and encouragement of Dr. Max Testa, to redefine his goals and make
    the most of his natural abilities. He did fairly well by anyone's
    standards. Many of the others who go out at that time, were of "retirement
    age" anyway. Certainly there has been no problem getting new blood in who
    are willing to manipulate their blood.

    >
    > Now, if Thomas wanted to complain because she was treated more harshly
    > than track and field superstars, or baseball players, guilty of similar
    > abuse, that might have some validity.


    She has.

    > But blaming her competitors
    > (anyone remember all the shit Witty had to put up with to get to the
    > Olympics?) and suing Catlin and the testing lab is BS. TT places blame
    > on the testers rather than on the people who introduced her to the drugs
    > (whom she could presumably name, which might be interesting).
    > Unfortunately, it's not clear that she's learned anything.


    I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she did
    just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
    interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She made
    her decisions and should just live with them.
     
  17. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

    did
    > just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
    > interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school.


    What makes you think she'll become a trial lawyer?
     
  18. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

    > did
    > > just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
    > > interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school.

    >
    > What makes you think she'll become a trial lawyer?


    Because it's easier to be a shitty trial lawyer than a good lawyer of any
    other specialization. I'd be very surprised if she gets into law school, let
    alone makes it through.
     
  19. K. J. Papai

    K. J. Papai Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>...

    > I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she did
    > just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
    > interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She made
    > her decisions and should just live with them.


    The Moral Character Determination form might be the most difficult for
    her to "pass" if she does make it through law school. California's is
    20+ pages in length. Maybe Mississippi Bar doesn't require something
    like that?

    -Ken
     
  20. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "K. J. Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>...
    >
    > > I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

    did
    > > just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
    > > interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She

    made
    > > her decisions and should just live with them.

    >
    > The Moral Character Determination form might be the most difficult for
    > her to "pass" if she does make it through law school. California's is
    > 20+ pages in length. Maybe Mississippi Bar doesn't require something
    > like that?
    >
    > -Ken


    There was a guy back in the late 1970s who went to law school and "forgot"
    to put his felony conviction on his application to the school. He got his
    JD and suddenly remembered when he applied for NY Bar admission. Don't know
    what he's doing now. Maybe practicing somewhere without a license.
    As long as she hasn't been charged or convicted of a crime..........Isn't
    she really a victim? ;-)
     
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