Third Bidon Cage

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

--
Bob C

I don't see any reason not to, but why not use a basic Minoura clamp on
cage? Or even their kit that mounts under the seat. If you've already
got the gear to do the rivnuts, and the frame's not precious, then I'd
go that route.

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

My experience with aluminum rivnuts for bottle retention off road has
not been good. They eventually come loose and you need to pull the
bottom bracket to clean out the mess when you drill them out to replace
them or listen to them rattle assuming you have a sealed BB. Monel
rivnuts are supposedly more durable in this application in a steel
frame, I don't know about using them in aluminum.

Marcus

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

It's the standard way bike makers do that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

Check that the water bottle will not foul on the chainrings. Mine does.

Pete

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

First opinion, never drill a hole in your downtube. This way you will be
weakening your frame and the downside of your downtube is where you will
have the highest tension load.
Most framemakers do drill a hole and weld, or solder, a nut on the
downside of the downtube. By welding or drilling they add extra material
to reduce the stress in that area. I am not familiar with any framemaker
who just drills a hole and puts a rivnut in.

Regards,

Eric van Oorschot

I have them installed in three bikes with no problems at all to date.
All three were installed years ago, one is an Al cyclocross frame.

Have at it after checking the clearance issues w/ the crank and front
wheel.

MW

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

--
Bob C

Works fine. I know a person who added extra bottle bosses using the
rivets to his Co-Motion Big Al tandem. A $4,000+ tandem I think. The
Co-Motion was and is ridden many, many thousands of miles a year. I
had a shop put them on a Trek 2200 aluminum frame. Seattube on the
Trek.

Ningi said:

Check that the water bottle will not foul on the chainrings. Mine does.

Pete

Just bend the cage a little to the left. No problem.
Phil Brown

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Bob C said:

Anyone care to comment on a proposal to fit "Rivnuts" under the downtube on
my 8 yr old aluminium framed mountain bike for a third bidon carrier?

--
Bob C

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

philcycles said:

Ningi said:

Check that the water bottle will not foul on the chainrings. Mine does.

Pete

Just bend the cage a little to the left. No problem.
Phil Brown

I just stop using the granny ring when I have 3 water bottles 🙂

Pete

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

People still use Camelbaks? They're so 90's...

Peter Cole said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

People still use Camelbaks? They're so 90's...

Nice. Show up and make a dickish comment. Classic "Peter Cole". Keep
that legacy alive!

Peter Cole said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

People still use Camelbaks? They're so 90's...

Nice. Show up and make a dickish comment. Classic "Peter Cole". Keep
that legacy alive!

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

You use a Camelbak on all of your rides? Even short 40-50 mile evening
rides during the summer? If you showed up at the local evening racer
rides with a Camelbak they would see you as a poseur, clueless Fred,
with no bike handling skills to be riding in a tightly packed group.
Why would you monkey with the hassles of a Camelbak, loading and
unloading it, for a 2 hour ride? Bottles and saddle bags are more
convenient for road rides under 100 miles. A century is where the
inconvenience of Camelbaks and the convenience of being able to drink
more consistently comes around.

landotter said:

Peter Cole said:

landotter said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
> I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
> 'camelback'?
Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

People still use Camelbaks? They're so 90's...

Nice. Show up and make a dickish comment. Classic "Peter Cole". Keep
that legacy alive!

Touchy!

One person's "dickish" may be another's life's lesson learned.

I think Camelbaks are a fad, one that I think will run its course. I
have owned 3, including the original. I was such a believer (or gullible
, gear-head -- pick one) that I equipped the whole family with them. I
used them on fast club rides, brevets, and off-road rides. I have a
collection of packs for them to ride in, cleaning brushes, bite valves,
bladders in various states of deterioration, tube clips, tube
insulators, etc. I have examples of the "technology" from various
vendors, in various sizes, from the tiny to the huge. I hardly think my
(dickish) opinion is unqualified, or likely even less qualified than yours.

My conclusion after many miles and years? I think they're really dumb,
and I think I was dumb for taking so long to figure that out. Sorry if
that offends you.

I've had a similar epiphany about helmets. I have no idea how effective
they are at their intended purpose (and really don't want to talk about
it), but I've realized I hate wearing them -- after years of attempting
to convince myself otherwise. Same thing with Camelbaks.

Perhaps it makes me a "classic" "[censored]", but I've gone back to bottles.
I'm afraid I'm guilty of not taking my "hydration status" seriously any
more, but I've found that I can actually delay "hydrating" (drinking)
for some time without having seizures. Shocking as it is to some, I
actually make short rides without bringing energy drinks or even water!
How much do I miss the heavy bag strapped to my back with its dangling
(often dripping) plumbing? A lot, actually, but in a good way.

If you think I'm a [censored] about Camelbaks, you should hear me go on about
anonymous snipers.

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for one of the clamp-on behind-the-saddle bottle carriers before
I would start mucking with the frame. Other than that, can you say
'camelback'?

Yeah, I haven't used a bottle myself in years. Hydration packs are
great, and you can put the contents of your seat bag in them. Some
people find them bothersome, but I barely notice mine, even in the
drops. Mine does need a new bladder after a couple years, last one got
a sticky fungal infection...blurgh!

You use a Camelbak on all of your rides? Even short 40-50 mile evening
rides during the summer? If you showed up at the local evening racer
rides with a Camelbak they would see you as a poseur, clueless Fred,
with no bike handling skills to be riding in a tightly packed group.

Exactly why I don't ride with clubs any more. The [censored] percentage is
astronomical. Why should I care what grown men think? FWIW, the few
club riders I've *tried* to ride with around here invariably had more
money than brains, and were the most reckless jagoffs I've ever ridden
with.

Quoted message said:

Why would you monkey with the hassles of a Camelbak, loading and
unloading it, for a 2 hour ride?

Because:

1. I need more than 2 bottles worth.
2. My bike has no cage mounts.
3. I like the way the bike feels when climbing without weight on it.
4. Water stays colder.
5. Easier to load ice.
6. Safer than reaching for a bottle.
7. carries my tools, phone, and spares.
8. Insulates back from fierce southern sun.

Quoted message said:

Bottles and saddle bags are more
convenient for road rides under 100 miles.

No they're not.

Quoted message said:

A century is where the
inconvenience of Camelbaks and the convenience of being able to drink
more consistently comes around.

Bzzzz. You're wrong. There is nothing inconvenient about a Camelbak.
That's the first mistake in reasoning you made. Stop by fridge, dump in
ice, fill at sink, hit the road. Wow, what a cross to bear.

I find myself feeling fortunate now that I don't have to ride in
whatever arrogant club you're referring to. I got out of high school
nearly twenty years ago, and don't miss the mentality.

landotter said:

Exactly why I don't ride with clubs any more. The [censored] percentage is
astronomical. Why should I care what grown men think? FWIW, the few
club riders I've *tried* to ride with around here invariably had more
money than brains, and were the most reckless jagoffs I've ever ridden
with.

Although I might phrase it more delicately, I pretty much agree with
your sentiments. I'm not sure why I still do club rides, but I often
ride between packs, or at least with a small group of familiar riders.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would you monkey with the hassles of a Camelbak, loading and
unloading it, for a 2 hour ride?

Because:

1. I need more than 2 bottles worth.

I do too sometimes (like hot brevets in the boonies). I have 3 mounts,
use big bottles, drink a lot at stops (stores, service stations), may
bungee extra bottles -- I usually add a rack when I'm doing distance riding.

Quoted message said:

2. My bike has no cage mounts.

Hmmm, hard to be sympathetic to that.

Quoted message said:

3. I like the way the bike feels when climbing without weight on it.

Me, too, but I like the way I feel without weight on my back more --
climbing or otherwise.

Quoted message said:

4. Water stays colder.

That's one taste I did acquire from my Camelbak days. These days I just
use insulated bottles, I find they work about as well.

Quoted message said:

5. Easier to load ice.

With the "ziplock" bladders, yes, not with the original designs. The
same can be said for bottles, all the new ones seem to have wide mouthed
caps, so ice cubes go right in.

Quoted message said:

6. Safer than reaching for a bottle.

I would have thought this was a "reach" of an argument if a local club
rider hadn't jammed his fork when trying to reseat his bottle (followed
by a trip over the bars). I guess it's a skill thing. When I'm riding
with multiple bottles I rotate the empties when I stop to keep the one
I'm using in the easiest to reach holder. I always stop to drink
off-road, not a big sacrifice as I'm there for the scenery, anyway.

Quoted message said:

7. carries my tools, phone, and spares.

Again, I prefer the weight on my bike. I've done it both ways. I even
kept the pack long after I stopped carrying water in it, just inertia, I
guess.

Quoted message said:

8. Insulates back from fierce southern sun.

Maybe, but I find the most irritating part of a backpack is the heat it
traps.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A century is where the
inconvenience of Camelbaks and the convenience of being able to drink
more consistently comes around.

Bzzzz. You're wrong. There is nothing inconvenient about a Camelbak.
That's the first mistake in reasoning you made. Stop by fridge, dump in
ice, fill at sink, hit the road. Wow, what a cross to bear.

On long rides, I like multiple containers because I can fill some with
water and some with other stuff. I'll often grab a large container
(quart or half gallon) of something (OJ, chocolate milk, etc.) drink
half on the spot and fill a bottle with the remainder to consume on the
next leg. Bottles are fast and flexible under those circumstances.

I've kept my Camelbaks because I think they may come in handy for hiking
and/or XC skiing some day. For biking I'd rather have the wheels bear
the load.

Peter Cole said:

landotter said:

Exactly why I don't ride with clubs any more. The [censored] percentage is
astronomical. Why should I care what grown men think? FWIW, the few
club riders I've *tried* to ride with around here invariably had more
money than brains, and were the most reckless jagoffs I've ever ridden
with.

Although I might phrase it more delicately, I pretty much agree with
your sentiments. I'm not sure why I still do club rides, but I often
ride between packs, or at least with a small group of familiar riders.

Hmm. There have to be differences between different clubs and
different riders, no?

I've known people I didn't enjoy riding with, due to personality
differences or just their squirreliness on the bike. But in my
experience, most people are more pleasant while riding than in
"civilian" life.

I couldn't count the number of friends I've made through club rides. I
wouldn't want to lose them.

- Frank Krygowski