Threadlock as antiseize?

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If it binds, on a faced frameset, the threads are not parallel, just saw

this

Quoted message said:

on a Merlin-speed-

Update: Major discovery:

The BB still binds when I back off the right cup so it doesn't touch the
face, and fully screw in the left lipless cup. So the faces are
irrelevant and probably my threads are not parallel.

Thanks.

~PB

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay-<< Why is facing even necessary with the current crop of

cartridge

Quoted message said:

BBs? I assume the BB shell threads are parallel to each other,
and it seems to me that if the threads are parallel, then any
lack of absolurely uniform contact by the outer flange/BB shell
face really does not make much difference. >><BR><BR>

Don't assume the faces are parallel, cuz most are not. If the

BB has a lip that

Quoted message said:

contacts the shell, like on the current crop of BBs, then

facing is neccesary.

Quoted message said:

The only BB \where it is not is a Phill BB.

If it is not faced, and it binds, you will kill it quickly.

But why would it bind? There is a solid cartridge in which the
bearing and axle alignment is fixed. The cups engage the outside
diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do not
see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the angle
between the axle and the bearings or anything -- except that the
cup would have a tendency to come loose. If you simply snug-up
the flanged side (right), use some thread lock and then reef on
the ring side (left), there should be no problem at all, should
there?

In the old days, when right hand cups were tightened into the
frame with giant tools (or the cheap home version I own), bad
facing could result in misalignment of a bearing surface becauase
the cup in effect deformed to match the face -- or so it was
explained to me back in the day. That just isn't the case any
more, unless I am missing someting here. -- Jay Beattie.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Then buy a facing tool and DIY...

Once you see the price of a decent facing tool you will probably re-consider.
------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Quoted message said:

Not having your BB fall apart half way
through a ride is well worth the cost of gettin the BB faced.

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

It's not going to fall apart.

Wasatch5k said:

I think it will.... Can you imagine how big of a pain in the ass
replacing the BB (and you will need to replace it, often) will be with
all of that lock-tite in there.

Maybe not so awful. Locktite breaks down at moderate
temperatures with a heat gun. My vote's for a properly
machined frame, though

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jay Beattie said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay-<< Why is facing even necessary with the current crop of

cartridge

Quoted message said:

BBs? I assume the BB shell threads are parallel to each other,
and it seems to me that if the threads are parallel, then any
lack of absolurely uniform contact by the outer flange/BB shell
face really does not make much difference. >><BR><BR>

Don't assume the faces are parallel, cuz most are not. If the

BB has a lip that

Quoted message said:

contacts the shell, like on the current crop of BBs, then

facing is neccesary.

Quoted message said:

The only BB \where it is not is a Phill BB.

If it is not faced, and it binds, you will kill it quickly.

But why would it bind? There is a solid cartridge in which the
bearing and axle alignment is fixed. The cups engage the outside
diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do not
see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the angle
between the axle and the bearings or anything -- except that the
cup would have a tendency to come loose. If you simply snug-up
the flanged side (right), use some thread lock and then reef on
the ring side (left), there should be no problem at all, should
there?

In the old days, when right hand cups were tightened into the
frame with giant tools (or the cheap home version I own), bad
facing could result in misalignment of a bearing surface becauase
the cup in effect deformed to match the face

exactly right

Quoted message said:

-- or so it was
explained to me back in the day. That just isn't the case any
more, unless I am missing someting here. -- Jay Beattie.

nothing's changed - that's why campy recommend facing the bb!

<< The cups engage the outside
diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do not
see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the angle
between the axle and the bearings or anything >><BR><BR>

Putting a right side cup against the 'face' of a bb shell that is not parallel
to the threads, and then forcing the pther cup around the bearings will indeed
cant the bearings and cause a binding.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay-<< Why is facing even necessary with the current crop of

cartridge

Quoted message said:

BBs? I assume the BB shell threads are parallel to each

other,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and it seems to me that if the threads are parallel, then any
lack of absolurely uniform contact by the outer flange/BB

shell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

face really does not make much difference. >><BR><BR>

Don't assume the faces are parallel, cuz most are not. If the

BB has a lip that

Quoted message said:

contacts the shell, like on the current crop of BBs, then

facing is neccesary.

Quoted message said:

The only BB \where it is not is a Phill BB.

If it is not faced, and it binds, you will kill it quickly.

But why would it bind? There is a solid cartridge in which

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bearing and axle alignment is fixed. The cups engage the

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the

angle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

between the axle and the bearings or anything -- except that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cup would have a tendency to come loose. If you simply

snug-up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the flanged side (right), use some thread lock and then reef

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the ring side (left), there should be no problem at all,

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there?

In the old days, when right hand cups were tightened into the
frame with giant tools (or the cheap home version I own), bad
facing could result in misalignment of a bearing surface

becauase

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cup in effect deformed to match the face

exactly right

Quoted message said:

-- or so it was
explained to me back in the day. That just isn't the case any
more, unless I am missing someting here. -- Jay Beattie.

nothing's changed - that's why campy recommend facing the bb!

But the bearings are no longer in the cup. They are in retainers
pressed into a solid structure. Things have changed a lot. -- Jay
Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

>Jay-<< Why is facing even necessary with the current crop of

cartridge

>BBs? I assume the BB shell threads are parallel to each

other,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>and it seems to me that if the threads are parallel, then any
>lack of absolurely uniform contact by the outer flange/BB

shell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>face really does not make much difference. >><BR><BR>
>
>Don't assume the faces are parallel, cuz most are not. If the

BB has a lip that

>contacts the shell, like on the current crop of BBs, then

facing is neccesary.

>The only BB \where it is not is a Phill BB.
>
>If it is not faced, and it binds, you will kill it quickly.

But why would it bind? There is a solid cartridge in which

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bearing and axle alignment is fixed. The cups engage the

outside

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the

angle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

between the axle and the bearings or anything -- except that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cup would have a tendency to come loose. If you simply

snug-up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the flanged side (right), use some thread lock and then reef

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the ring side (left), there should be no problem at all,

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there?

In the old days, when right hand cups were tightened into the
frame with giant tools (or the cheap home version I own), bad
facing could result in misalignment of a bearing surface

becauase

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cup in effect deformed to match the face

exactly right

Quoted message said:

-- or so it was
explained to me back in the day. That just isn't the case any
more, unless I am missing someting here. -- Jay Beattie.

nothing's changed - that's why campy recommend facing the bb!

But the bearings are no longer in the cup. They are in retainers
pressed into a solid structure. Things have changed a lot. -- Jay
Beattie.

but stress [& therefore distortion] can be transmitted through that
"solid structure". even shimano bb cartridges, those big solid ones,
are subject to it. may not be immediately apparent, but it makes itself
known by reduced bearing life. that's why facing /is/ usually a good idea.

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie wrote:

>"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

>news:[email hidden]...
>
>
>>Jay-<< Why is facing even necessary with the current crop

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>cartridge
>
>
>>BBs? I assume the BB shell threads are parallel to each

other,

Quoted message said:

>>and it seems to me that if the threads are parallel, then

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>lack of absolurely uniform contact by the outer flange/BB

shell

Quoted message said:

>>face really does not make much difference. >><BR><BR>
>>
>>Don't assume the faces are parallel, cuz most are not. If

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>BB has a lip that
>
>
>>contacts the shell, like on the current crop of BBs, then
>
>facing is neccesary.
>
>
>>The only BB \where it is not is a Phill BB.
>>
>>If it is not faced, and it binds, you will kill it quickly.
>
>
>But why would it bind? There is a solid cartridge in which

the

Quoted message said:

>bearing and axle alignment is fixed. The cups engage the

outside

Quoted message said:

>diameter of the cartridge and simply hold it in place. I do

not

Quoted message said:

>see how bad facing changes the preload on the bearings, the

angle

Quoted message said:

>between the axle and the bearings or anything -- except that

the

Quoted message said:

>cup would have a tendency to come loose. If you simply

snug-up

Quoted message said:

>the flanged side (right), use some thread lock and then reef

on

Quoted message said:

>the ring side (left), there should be no problem at all,

should

Quoted message said:

>there?
>
>In the old days, when right hand cups were tightened into

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>frame with giant tools (or the cheap home version I own),

bad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>facing could result in misalignment of a bearing surface

becauase

Quoted message said:

>the cup in effect deformed to match the face

exactly right

>-- or so it was
>explained to me back in the day. That just isn't the case

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>more, unless I am missing someting here. -- Jay Beattie.
>

nothing's changed - that's why campy recommend facing the bb!

But the bearings are no longer in the cup. They are in

retainers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pressed into a solid structure. Things have changed a lot. --

Jay

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beattie.

but stress [& therefore distortion] can be transmitted through

that

Quoted message said:

"solid structure". even shimano bb cartridges, those big solid

ones,

Quoted message said:

are subject to it. may not be immediately apparent, but it

makes itself

Quoted message said:

known by reduced bearing life. that's why facing /is/ usually

a good idea.

O.K. And, by the way, I certainly agree with everyone that BBs
should be faced or machined properly from the shop or mfg. I am
always surprised when posters are talking about facing problems
or having to do it themselves, especially on mega expensive
frames. -- Jay Beattie.