Titanium or carbon

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Bob, Jun 10, 2003.

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  1. On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:16:32 -0700, Leonard Migliore wrote:
    >Dr Engelbert Buxbaum <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> titanium carabines [...] can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4
    >> degrees C)
    >
    >If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
    >They see air a lot colder than that.

    Different alloy no doubt.
     


  2. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
    > >
    > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
    > >
    > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
    > > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
    > > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
    > > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
    >
    > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
    > They see air a lot colder than that.

    Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  3. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    David Kerber wrote:
    >
    > In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
    > > >
    > > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
    > > > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
    > > > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
    > > > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
    > >
    > > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
    > > airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.
    >
    > Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

    Shouldn't one be not to break? Think the manufacturer has not mastered the metal a la ti bikes
    of the 80s.
     
  4. Dave Beal

    Dave Beal Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
    > > > warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
    > > >
    > > > Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.
    > >
    > > Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
    > > It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.
    > >
    > > http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
    >
    > According to Kestrel's website-
    > ===================================
    > Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
    > of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
    > or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
    > consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
    > =======================================
    >
    > 65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is a
    > good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount (crash
    > replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.
    >
    > This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
    > breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
    > accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
    > higher prices.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
    http://www.litespeed.com/asp/warranty.html Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
    what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.
     
  5. [email protected] (Dave Beal) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> > > What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
    >> > > warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
    >> > >
    >> > > Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.
    >> >
    >> > Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
    >> > It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.
    >> >
    >> > http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
    >>
    >> According to Kestrel's website-
    >> ===================================
    >> Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
    >> of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
    >> or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
    >> consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
    >> =======================================
    >>
    >> 65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is
    >> a good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount
    >> (crash replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.
    >>
    >> This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
    >> breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
    >> accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
    >> higher prices.
    >>
    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    > I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
    > http://www.litespeed.com/asp/warranty.html Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
    > what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.
    >

    I have a Litespeed Classic in for a broken chainstay/dropout, that much to my discust happened on
    Mt. Ventoux on the 11th day of a 48 day vacation. Litespeed however are going to fix it, inspect all
    other welds and repaint the frame and restore it to like new...get back to you when this happens.
     
  6. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    David Kerber wrote:

    > In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
    > > >
    > > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
    > > > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
    > > > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
    > > > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
    > >
    > > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
    > > airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.
    >
    > Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.
    >

    What you say has merit, but mountaineering gear - life and death equipment at that - that gets
    brittle enough to break in the cold? How likely is that? They must have a very clear warning on them
    somewhere. Didn't notice any of those the last time I was at MEC.

    Bernie
     
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