Titanium or carbon

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:16:32 -0700, Leonard Migliore wrote:
>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum <[email protected]> wrote:
>> titanium carabines [...] can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4
>> degrees C)
>
>If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
>They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloy no doubt.

 

[David Kerber]

In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
> >
> > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
> >
> > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
> > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
> > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
> > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
>
> If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
> They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[David Ryan]

David Kerber wrote:
>
> In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
> > >
> > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
> > > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
> > > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
> > > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
> >
> > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
> > airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.
>
> Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

Shouldn't one be not to break? Think the manufacturer has not mastered the metal a la ti bikes
of the 80s.

 

[Dave Beal]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
> > > warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
> > >
> > > Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.
> >
> > Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
> > It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.
> >
> > http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
>
> According to Kestrel's website-
> ===================================
> Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
> of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
> or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
> consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
> =======================================
>
> 65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is a
> good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount (crash
> replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.
>
> This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
> breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
> accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
> higher prices.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
http://www.litespeed.com/asp/warranty.html Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.

 

[Mike Latondress]

[email protected] (Dave Beal) wrote in news:[email protected]:

> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> > > What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
>> > > warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
>> > >
>> > > Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.
>> >
>> > Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
>> > It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.
>> >
>> > http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
>>
>> According to Kestrel's website-
>> ===================================
>> Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
>> of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
>> or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
>> consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
>> =======================================
>>
>> 65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is
>> a good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount
>> (crash replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.
>>
>> This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
>> breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
>> accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
>> higher prices.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
> http://www.litespeed.com/asp/warranty.html Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
> what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.
>

I have a Litespeed Classic in for a broken chainstay/dropout, that much to my discust happened on
Mt. Ventoux on the 11th day of a 48 day vacation. Litespeed however are going to fix it, inspect all
other welds and repaint the frame and restore it to like new...get back to you when this happens.

 

[Bernie]

David Kerber wrote:

> In article <180720032016324493%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
> > >
> > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
> > > warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
> > > because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
> > > always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
> >
> > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
> > airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.
>
> Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.
>

What you say has merit, but mountaineering gear - life and death equipment at that - that gets
brittle enough to break in the cold? How likely is that? They must have a very clear warning on them
somewhere. Didn't notice any of those the last time I was at MEC.

Bernie