To the ass I almost ran over today



On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:29:46 -0700, Erik Freitag wrote:

>
>> Reason in driving differs from the law--it's the same reason we all blow
>> 4 way stops with good visibility at 10 mph :)

>
> Don't say "we".


WEEEEEEE!

10s of thousands of bike courier miles under my belt prove otherwise: I'd
estimate 99% then. That's in the reckless city of Chicago of course. :)
Cars usually blew them at 20mph, so a happy medium for all. I'm sure you
drive exactly the speed limit, even when it's safer to "go with the flow"
and break the law.

I find it safer to come down to a reasonable speed to avoid having to clip
out, which can have even worse repercussions as a distraction.

we=most of us

:)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
2WheelR <[email protected]> writes:

> A great deal of friction between cyclists and autos could be avoided if
> people simply followed the rules for vehicular traffic, no more no less.


Well said!


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
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Sat, 01 May 2004 01:12:51 GMT,
<[email protected]>,
2WheelR <[email protected]> wrote:

>Which is why I wanted to tell Cycling's Goodwill Ambassador (tm) that he
>made cyclists look bad, and made things worse for the rest of us.


You people dig up this myth every time somebody knots your knickers.

Even if one of you scumbags decides to run down "cyclist B" because
"cyclist A" ****** you off last week, doesn't mean it's a trend or
that other drivers share you psychosis.
--
zk
 
Zoot Katz wrote:

> Sat, 01 May 2004 01:12:51 GMT,
> <[email protected]>,
> 2WheelR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Which is why I wanted to tell Cycling's Goodwill Ambassador (tm) that he
>>made cyclists look bad, and made things worse for the rest of us.

>
>
> You people

Who are 'You People'?

dig up this myth every time somebody knots your knickers.
That people's perception of entire,broad groups is shaped by their
experience with tiny numbers of members of those groups is well
supported in sociological/psychological/anthropological studies. No
matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.

People generalize (see 'You People', above). There is even a word for
it, it's called 'Generalization'. it doesn't matter if it's 'right' or
'wrong' to do it, people do it. They do it to Cyclists. That means you
might get someone else's payback. or someone might get yours.

Payback aside, wouldn't it be nice if you could count on motorists
treating you, the cyclist,like a predictable, responsible vehicle,
because their experience has shown them that cyclists are predictable
and responsible?

A colloquial way of referring to the phenomenon from the minorities'
perspective is 'Representing'.

>
> Even if one of you scumbags


Now I'm a scumbag. Ouch. That's 'Scummy, the Scummy ScumBag' to you, pal.

decides to run down "cyclist B" because
I decided not to, actually, though it was reactive rather than
conscious. I try not to kill people (including myself) when I go places.
I wish I could say the same for everyone (including cyclists) on the road.
> "cyclist A" ****** you off last week,


You know, I could hardly care less if someone decides to imperil
themselves. I just wish they wouldn't do it around me, or in a way that
makes it harder for me to go about the things I enjoy (like cycling, fer
instance). While I'm on the topic, I'd like people who commit
murder/suicides to commit suicide first, for a change.

doesn't mean it's a trend or
> that other drivers share you psychosis.


Technically, if everyone shared my psychosis, that _would_ be a trend. :)

People like you make me smile ;)

2wheelR
 
Now _that_ post only has a few faults.

It is logical.

It addresses the issues discussed.

It suggests that bicyclists should ride as if they were vehicles.

<tongue firmly in cheek>

Look, it seems to me there is a world of difference between a cyclist (or
driver) making a mistake and the mentality of "I own the road" for lack of
a better phrase.

When riding recently, for example, I was on a slight climb in the bike lane
on the right and I needed to turn left. There was a motor home approaching
from behind and the light in front of me was red. I was clear so I signaled
and moved to the left turn lane when safe to do so. I think I may have made
the motor home slow down some.

This person (driver of the motor home - while sitting at a red light next to
me mind you) rolled down his window and yelled to me...get this....

"Ever hear of a crosswalk?"

I couldn't help it....I busted up laughing and just waved.

I guess I could have been angry but at that one moment I was just
thinking...

"Ever hear of a bicycle?"


"2WheelR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
> > Sat, 01 May 2004 01:12:51 GMT,
> > <[email protected]>,
> > 2WheelR <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Which is why I wanted to tell Cycling's Goodwill Ambassador (tm) that he
> >>made cyclists look bad, and made things worse for the rest of us.

> >
> >
> > You people

> Who are 'You People'?
>
> dig up this myth every time somebody knots your knickers.
> That people's perception of entire,broad groups is shaped by their
> experience with tiny numbers of members of those groups is well
> supported in sociological/psychological/anthropological studies. No
> matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.
>
> People generalize (see 'You People', above). There is even a word for
> it, it's called 'Generalization'. it doesn't matter if it's 'right' or
> 'wrong' to do it, people do it. They do it to Cyclists. That means you
> might get someone else's payback. or someone might get yours.
>
> Payback aside, wouldn't it be nice if you could count on motorists
> treating you, the cyclist,like a predictable, responsible vehicle,
> because their experience has shown them that cyclists are predictable
> and responsible?
>
> A colloquial way of referring to the phenomenon from the minorities'
> perspective is 'Representing'.
>
> >
> > Even if one of you scumbags

>
> Now I'm a scumbag. Ouch. That's 'Scummy, the Scummy ScumBag' to you, pal.
>
> decides to run down "cyclist B" because
> I decided not to, actually, though it was reactive rather than
> conscious. I try not to kill people (including myself) when I go places.
> I wish I could say the same for everyone (including cyclists) on the road.
> > "cyclist A" ****** you off last week,

>
> You know, I could hardly care less if someone decides to imperil
> themselves. I just wish they wouldn't do it around me, or in a way that
> makes it harder for me to go about the things I enjoy (like cycling, fer
> instance). While I'm on the topic, I'd like people who commit
> murder/suicides to commit suicide first, for a change.
>
> doesn't mean it's a trend or
> > that other drivers share you psychosis.

>
> Technically, if everyone shared my psychosis, that _would_ be a trend. :)
>
> People like you make me smile ;)
>
> 2wheelR
>
>
 
Sat, 01 May 2004 03:50:27 GMT,
<[email protected]>, 2WheelR
<[email protected]> keeps whining:

>That people's perception of entire,broad groups is shaped by their
>experience with tiny numbers of members of those groups is well
>supported in sociological/psychological/anthropological studies. No
>matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.
>
>People generalize (see 'You People', above). There is even a word for
>it, it's called 'Generalization'. it doesn't matter if it's 'right' or
>'wrong' to do it, people do it. They do it to Cyclists. That means you
>might get someone else's payback. or someone might get yours.
>
>Payback aside, wouldn't it be nice if you could count on motorists
>treating you, the cyclist,like a predictable, responsible vehicle,
>because their experience has shown them that cyclists are predictable
>and responsible?


The way I read it, you pulled a half-assed right hook.
Your description of the incident gave me the distinct impression you
appeared hesitant and indecisive. You never mentioned using turn
signals or checking blind spots.

You've been whining about this all week and now you're talking about
"paybacks"! You're a dangerously sick creep. People who consider using
their cars as weapons shouldn't be permitted behind the wheel.

It would be nice cyclists could depend on motorists to obey the law
and conduct themselves like adults instead of spoiled little brats.

thpppft!
--
zk
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Bartow W. Riggs"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Now _that_ post only has a few faults.
>
> It is logical.
>
> It addresses the issues discussed.
>
> It suggests that bicyclists should ride as if they were vehicles.
>
> <tongue firmly in cheek>
>
> Look, it seems to me there is a world of difference between a cyclist (or
> driver) making a mistake and the mentality of "I own the road" for lack of
> a better phrase.


I'd agree with that. Also, as you point out below, some motorists have
problems with cyclists that go beyond "He isn't following the rules of the
road"...namely, these guys believe that cyclists have no RIGHT to be on
the road in the first place. And they're very rude about expressing that
belief...expressing it in many and sundry ways, from buzzing cyclists very
closely to honking their horns like crazy whenever one slows them down to
yelling various obscenities at them whenever they do anything the motorist
does not like.

> When riding recently, for example, I was on a slight climb in the bike lane
> on the right and I needed to turn left. There was a motor home approaching
> from behind and the light in front of me was red. I was clear so I signaled
> and moved to the left turn lane when safe to do so. I think I may have made
> the motor home slow down some.


Which he eventually had to do for the light anyway!

> This person (driver of the motor home - while sitting at a red light next to
> me mind you) rolled down his window and yelled to me...get this....
>
> "Ever hear of a crosswalk?"
>
> I couldn't help it....I busted up laughing and just waved.
>
> I guess I could have been angry but at that one moment I was just
> thinking...
>
> "Ever hear of a bicycle?"


I like to think I could have come back with, "Yeah. I always slow down
when I see a pedestrian in one. How about you?"

Then again, one never can come up with the perfect response at the right moment.
--
Trudi

"Boy, there sure is a lot of tension around here tonight. It's like a Joan Crawford movie."
 
Zoot Katz wrote:

> Sat, 01 May 2004 03:50:27 GMT,
> <[email protected]>, 2WheelR
> <[email protected]> keeps whining:


Whining. Ouch.

>>That people's perception of entire,broad groups is shaped by their
>>experience with tiny numbers of members of those groups is well
>>supported in sociological/psychological/anthropological studies. No
>>matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.
>>
>>People generalize (see 'You People', above). There is even a word for
>>it, it's called 'Generalization'. it doesn't matter if it's 'right' or
>>'wrong' to do it, people do it. They do it to Cyclists. That means you
>>might get someone else's payback. or someone might get yours.
>>
>>Payback aside, wouldn't it be nice if you could count on motorists
>>treating you, the cyclist,like a predictable, responsible vehicle,
>>because their experience has shown them that cyclists are predictable
>>and responsible?

>
>
> The way I read it, you pulled a half-assed right hook.
> Your description of the incident gave me the distinct impression you
> appeared hesitant and indecisive. You never mentioned using turn
> signals or checking blind spots.


it was a right turn from a one way street that dead ends into a one way
street. all traffic had to go right. Why would signalling make the
obvious more manifest? what would have been obvious enough? FWIW, in my
22 years of driving through that intersection, and cycling through it
for 9 years or so before that, I've never seen anyone (even an erraticly
riding cyclist) go anywhere other than right.

Regarding blind spots, I did't check under my car either in case someone
riding a clown bicycle tried to shave a couple seconds off his personal
best. Careful, those pipes are hot hot hot!

> You've been whining about this all week and now you're talking about
> "paybacks"! You're a dangerously sick creep. People who consider using
> their cars as weapons shouldn't be permitted behind the wheel.

Whining. Ouch! Sick creep. Ouch! 'You People' make me laugh.

Would it have suited you more if I used the term 'karma'? It's overused
and misused far too often, I think, and really wouldn;t work in this
instance, but maybe it would carry less negative implications than
'payback'. I feel like I got the end result of his, and your (for that
matter) negative experience with motorists which shaped his view of
people in cars. People in cars do the same thing to people on bikes.
That's the payback I mean.

> It would be nice cyclists could depend on motorists to obey the law


We are in total agreement here. I'm a little nervous.

> and conduct themselves like adults instead of spoiled little brats.


I know you are, but what am I?

> thpppft!


You're leaking.

2WheelR
 
Sat, 01 May 2004 08:21:36 -0400,
<[email protected]>,
[email protected]etent (Trudi Marrapodi) wrote:

>I'd agree with that. Also, as you point out below, some motorists have
>problems with cyclists that go beyond "He isn't following the rules of the
>road"...namely, these guys believe that cyclists have no RIGHT to be on
>the road in the first place. And they're very rude about expressing that
>belief...expressing it in many and sundry ways, from buzzing cyclists very
>closely to honking their horns like crazy whenever one slows them down to
>yelling various obscenities at them whenever they do anything the motorist
>does not like.


Then you get these pontificating self-righteous ones that want to
lecture cyclists on how they should ride - "for their own good".
--
zk
 
Sat, 01 May 2004 13:10:23 GMT,
<[email protected]>,
attempting to defend a myth, 2WheelR <[email protected]> wrote:

I just want to know where are the facts to substantiate your
assertion? I want to see your proof that somebody is going to
deliberately endanger you because of someone else's unrelated actions.
Your festering hostility isn't proof of anything but your own disease.

That myth that you and other snivelling cagers cherish is an example
of the "cyclist's inferiority complex". It also reflects the inability
of whiners to accept responsibility for their own actions.

I hold that, excepting the dangerously drugged or certifiable whackos,
a driver isn't going to threaten me because you jumped a curb,
filtered forward, ran a stop sign or anything else you canned pukes
like to whine about.

>> thpppft!

>
>You're leaking.


yep, and you're soaking in it.
--
zk
 
Zoot Katz wrote:

> Sat, 01 May 2004 13:10:23 GMT,
> <[email protected]>,
> attempting to defend a myth, 2WheelR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I just want to know where are the facts to substantiate your
> assertion? I want to see your proof that somebody is going to
> deliberately endanger you because of someone else's unrelated actions.
> Your festering hostility isn't proof of anything but your own disease.


Do your own reading. Or better yet, call a library. the person at the
refernce desk lives for questions like that.

> That myth that you and other snivelling cagers cherish is an example
> of the "cyclist's inferiority complex". It also reflects the inability


I've never heard of that, or suggested it exists, Soot.

> of whiners to accept responsibility for their own actions.


Like darting in front of a car, Coot?

> I hold that, excepting the dangerously drugged or certifiable whackos,
> a driver isn't going to threaten me because you jumped a curb,
> filtered forward, ran a stop sign or anything else you canned pukes
> like to whine about.


That is something I cannot refute! Alas, moot, Zoot.
>
>>>thpppft!

>>
>>You're leaking.

>
>
> yep, and you're soaking in it.


exactly. I rest my case. You f*** up, and everyone around you soaks in it.

Thanks for demonstrating my points over and over and over again. You are
precisely the person I nearly killed.

Good luck with the meds, Zoot.

2WheelR
 
Sat, 01 May 2004 20:20:57 GMT,
<[email protected]>, 2WheelR
<[email protected]> squirmed:

>> Your festering hostility isn't proof of anything but your own disease.

>
>Do your own reading. Or better yet, call a library. the person at the
>refernce desk lives for questions like that.


No piddlewits, I'm calling you out. I'm saying you're FOS.
You assert it's a fact and I say prove it shove it.

Your alleged vengeful driver should be documented somewhere if you're
so willing to propagate the myth. Where'd you get the idea? Where's
the data?

It's a fantasy but you're so spiteful and vengeful that you ignorantly
spew your twisted opinion like it's a fact.

thffffpt!
--
zk
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

> Sat, 01 May 2004 08:21:36 -0400,
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]etent (Trudi Marrapodi) wrote:
>
> >I'd agree with that. Also, as you point out below, some motorists have
> >problems with cyclists that go beyond "He isn't following the rules of the
> >road"...namely, these guys believe that cyclists have no RIGHT to be on
> >the road in the first place. And they're very rude about expressing that
> >belief...expressing it in many and sundry ways, from buzzing cyclists very
> >closely to honking their horns like crazy whenever one slows them down to
> >yelling various obscenities at them whenever they do anything the motorist
> >does not like.

>
> Then you get these pontificating self-righteous ones that want to
> lecture cyclists on how they should ride - "for their own good".


Well, true...but then again, lecturing some of them when they don't follow
the rules of the road at all could be a lifesaver...for example, saying
something like "You really should be riding on the correct side of the
road, you could get yourself killed that way" or "You know, it would
really be safer if you signaled your intentions at an intersection" or
"You know, it's a really bad idea to ignore the red lights at the
intersections...Red lights are your friends. If you ignore them, a car
with a green light may accidentally plow into you."
--
Trudi

"Boy, there sure is a lot of tension around here tonight. It's like a Joan Crawford movie."
 
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Then you get these pontificating self-righteous ones that want to
>>lecture cyclists on how they should ride - "for their own good".
> >

> Well, true...but then again, lecturing some of them when they don't follow
> the rules of the road at all could be a lifesaver...for example, saying
> something like "You really should be riding on the correct side of the
> road, you could get yourself killed that way" or "You know, it would
> really be safer if you signaled your intentions at an intersection" or
> "You know, it's a really bad idea to ignore the red lights at the
> intersections...Red lights are your friends. If you ignore them, a car
> with a green light may accidentally plow into you."


But then again again, one sometimes gets well-meaning but useless advice
like I got one morning. When I was waiting for a traffic light, a
school bus driver actually opened up her door and yelled something at
me. I couldn't make sense of it, so I responded, "You SAY I left my
clothing."

But no, she said I needed reflective clothing. I *was* wearing black
leather, but bear in mind, the sun *was* up; it was EIGHT A.M. So I
told her, I have strap-on lights for later.

How about, we save the self-righteous for-my-own-good lectures for when
I'm actually breaking the traffic law.

--
-------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- http://www.eilertech.com/ --------

"It seemed an unlikely spot for a sensitive songwriter from Greenwich
Village... She ordered the 20-ounce steak."
-- Lin Brehmer, Chicago DJ, describing his meeting in a steakhouse
with Suzanne Vega.
 
some guy wrote-

> Then you get these pontificating self-righteous ones that want to
> lecture cyclists on how they should ride - "for their own good".


The person who started this thread (me) wanted to tell the cyclist to
behave better for the sake of other cyclists. 'his own good' was up to
him. As mine is up to me. In adressing him, I was acting in my interest,
but not mine alone.
 
Sun, 02 May 2004 19:43:51 GMT,
<[email protected]>,
Scott Eiler <[email protected]> wrote:

>But then again again, one sometimes gets well-meaning but useless advice
>like I got one morning.


I really detest the "helpful" ones who, while I'm stopped at a sign
waiting for them to clear the intersection, will stop and wave me into
traffic approaching in the next lane. And then the pea-brains get
angry because I don't accept their "helpful" gesture.
--
zk
 
In article <[email protected]>, Scott Eiler
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,

[email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>Then you get these pontificating self-righteous ones that want to
> >>lecture cyclists on how they should ride - "for their own good".
> > >

> > Well, true...but then again, lecturing some of them when they don't follow
> > the rules of the road at all could be a lifesaver...for example, saying
> > something like "You really should be riding on the correct side of the
> > road, you could get yourself killed that way" or "You know, it would
> > really be safer if you signaled your intentions at an intersection" or
> > "You know, it's a really bad idea to ignore the red lights at the
> > intersections...Red lights are your friends. If you ignore them, a car
> > with a green light may accidentally plow into you."

>
> But then again again, one sometimes gets well-meaning but useless advice
> like I got one morning. When I was waiting for a traffic light, a
> school bus driver actually opened up her door and yelled something at
> me. I couldn't make sense of it, so I responded, "You SAY I left my
> clothing."
>
> But no, she said I needed reflective clothing. I *was* wearing black
> leather, but bear in mind, the sun *was* up; it was EIGHT A.M. So I
> told her, I have strap-on lights for later.


Oh man! Yes, that happens too. And in the meantime, I see all kinds of
cyclists riding around at night with no lights on...on the wrong side of
the road...

> How about, we save the self-righteous for-my-own-good lectures for when
> I'm actually breaking the traffic law.


Agreed!
--
Trudi

"Boy, there sure is a lot of tension around here tonight. It's like a Joan Crawford movie."
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:

> Sun, 02 May 2004 19:43:51 GMT,
> <[email protected]>,
> Scott Eiler <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >But then again again, one sometimes gets well-meaning but useless advice
> >like I got one morning.

>
> I really detest the "helpful" ones who, while I'm stopped at a sign
> waiting for them to clear the intersection, will stop and wave me into
> traffic approaching in the next lane. And then the pea-brains get
> angry because I don't accept their "helpful" gesture.


Yeah. I think I've also mentioned, I don't like it when friends in cars
(who don't know better) "honk hello" at me when I'm riding. They think
they're being nice, but when I first hear the honk, I don't know how to
interpret it. Nine times out of 10, when I hear a honk, it's not a
friendly one--so my first instinct is to think "Jerk." Then I recognize
the car and driver, and see it's a friend of mine trying to say hello, and
I feel bad. But then again, a "hello honk" is a good way for a cyclist to
get distracted just long enough to get into an accident. I don't think
drivers realize that.

Tonight I was riding back home on my street, and had taken the lane nearly
to the center line because I had to make a left turn into the drive, there
were no cars on the other side of the street for me to wait for, and the
nearest car behind me was quite far away. I figured he was highly unlikely
to catch up to me and be forced to wait while I made my left turn. Well,
whadda ya know...he starts honking at me while he's still hundreds of feet
behind me! Sheesh, don't get your knickers in a knot, pal! I signaled left
and easily made my turn into the drive before he got within 100 feet of
me. Argggggh...
--
Trudi

"Boy, there sure is a lot of tension around here tonight. It's like a Joan Crawford movie."
 
If I honk at a cyclist I know I honk _after_ passing for exactly those
reasons.


"Trudi Marrapodi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:trudee-0205042132100001@icstudent-209150244107.clarityconnect.net...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> > Sun, 02 May 2004 19:43:51 GMT,
> > <[email protected]>,
> > Scott Eiler <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >But then again again, one sometimes gets well-meaning but useless

advice
> > >like I got one morning.

> >
> > I really detest the "helpful" ones who, while I'm stopped at a sign
> > waiting for them to clear the intersection, will stop and wave me into
> > traffic approaching in the next lane. And then the pea-brains get
> > angry because I don't accept their "helpful" gesture.

>
> Yeah. I think I've also mentioned, I don't like it when friends in cars
> (who don't know better) "honk hello" at me when I'm riding. They think
> they're being nice, but when I first hear the honk, I don't know how to
> interpret it. Nine times out of 10, when I hear a honk, it's not a
> friendly one--so my first instinct is to think "Jerk." Then I recognize
> the car and driver, and see it's a friend of mine trying to say hello, and
> I feel bad. But then again, a "hello honk" is a good way for a cyclist to
> get distracted just long enough to get into an accident. I don't think
> drivers realize that.
>
> Tonight I was riding back home on my street, and had taken the lane nearly
> to the center line because I had to make a left turn into the drive, there
> were no cars on the other side of the street for me to wait for, and the
> nearest car behind me was quite far away. I figured he was highly unlikely
> to catch up to me and be forced to wait while I made my left turn. Well,
> whadda ya know...he starts honking at me while he's still hundreds of feet
> behind me! Sheesh, don't get your knickers in a knot, pal! I signaled left
> and easily made my turn into the drive before he got within 100 feet of
> me. Argggggh...
> --
> Trudi
>
> "Boy, there sure is a lot of tension around here tonight. It's like a Joan

Crawford movie."
 
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:

> Yeah. I think I've also mentioned, I don't like it when friends in cars
> (who don't know better) "honk hello" at me when I'm riding. They think
> they're being nice, but when I first hear the honk, I don't know how to
> interpret it.


My rule is always consider a honk to be a friendly gesture. I return
all honks with a smile and wave. When someone I'm riding with says
"who was that honking?", I reply "one of my many fans."
--
terry morse Palo Alot, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/