Top 11 American Riders since 1980

[Lindsay]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:01:55 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

>I wasn't controlling for gender (as I wason't controlling for any genetically correlated factors).
>So unless Twigg could go "mano a mano" against the riders in my list, she doesn't belong there.

Twigg could go "hand to hand" against the riders on the list but why would they want to do that
on a bike?

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Good list (1980+). Others up there, but not in the top 11 perhaps,
> > include
> >>
> >> > 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
> >> > 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
> >> > 14. Kevin Livingston,
> >> > 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
> >> > 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
> >> > 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
> >> > 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
> >> > 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
> >> > 20. Roy Knickman,
> >> > 21. Kent Bostick (durability),
> >>
> >>
> >> Then you HAVE to include Tyler's inspiration: Rebecca Twigg.
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
> > Please explain.
>
> Twigg broke her collarbone in a training crash and then went on to compete in the Worlds in Bogata
> in 96. She won gold 11 days after the accident, setting a WR in the 3km pursuit with a plate
> inserted to stabilize the fracture.

Oh ya, forgot about that.

 

[Clovis Lark]

Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

> Clovis Lark wrote:
>>
>>
>> Twigg broke her collarbone in a training crash and then went on to compete in the Worlds in
>> Bogata in 96. She won gold 11 days after the accident, setting a WR in the 3km pursuit with a
>> plate inserted to stabilize the fracture.
>>
>> One of her sponsors, alluding to the inability of the US men to come up with anything, ran an add
>> saying "Next year, maybe we should break the collarbones of everyone on the team."

> I wasn't controlling for gender (as I wason't controlling for any genetically correlated factors).
> So unless Twigg could go "mano a mano" against the riders in my list, she doesn't belong there.

Where is the statement of your control? Second, since your list includes apples and oranges, what's
the point?

 

[Daniel Connelly]

Clovis Lark wrote:
> Where is the statement of your control? Second, since your list includes apples and oranges,
> what's the point?
>

I included riders eligable for professional races, who raced in professional races. Kent Bostick
competed at high-level races for decades, at the highest domestic level. I included him for
longevity.

I didn't include Roger Worthington or Glen Winkel, either, even though they've each demonstrated
remarkable excellence in their races.

So it isn't "apples versus oranges". It's USCF and UCI sanctioned races open to EVERYONE with a
license, not just a subset of the population.

Dan

 

[Clovis Lark]

Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

> Clovis Lark wrote:
>> Where is the statement of your control? Second, since your list includes apples and oranges,
>> what's the point?
>>

> I included riders eligable for professional races, who raced in professional races. Kent Bostick
> competed at high-level races for decades, at the highest domestic level. I included him for
> longevity.

> I didn't include Roger Worthington or Glen Winkel, either, even though they've each demonstrated
> remarkable excellence in their races.

> So it isn't "apples versus oranges". It's USCF and UCI sanctioned races open to EVERYONE with a
> license, not just a subset of the population.

So, Twigg had a license...

> Dan

 

[Daniel Connelly]

Exactly! And I judge her on her performance in P1 races. I don't care about Bostick's master's
record, and I don't include Twigg's W1 record.

If you want to make a women's list, fine. I'm a fan of women's racing, too. Just don't include
women's results in an overall list, just as you woudn't include junior results or master's results.

Dan

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
> So, Twigg had a license...
>
>
>>Dan

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Daniel Connelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Exactly! And I judge her on her performance in P1 races. I don't care about Bostick's master's
> record, and I don't include Twigg's W1 record.
>
> If you want to make a women's list, fine. I'm a fan of women's racing, too. Just don't include
> women's results in an overall list, just as you woudn't include junior results or master's
> results.

I disagree with your stance.

The Masters Fatties should be at the top of the list.

 

[Nev Shea]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
news[email protected]:

> I disagree with your stance.
>
> The Masters Fatties should be at the top of the list.

And then Gaggioli, as a guy who won a lot of races in America.

NS

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news[email protected]:
>
>
> > I disagree with your stance.
> >
> > The Masters Fatties should be at the top of the list.
>
>
> And then Gaggioli, as a guy who won a lot of races in America.

He claims to be the all-time winningest rider.

Since he's won Masters Fattie races, I'll put him at #1.

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news[email protected]:
> >
> >
> > > I disagree with your stance.
> > >
> > > The Masters Fatties should be at the top of the list.
> >
> >
> > And then Gaggioli, as a guy who won a lot of races in America.
>
>
>
> He claims to be the all-time winningest rider.
>
> Since he's won Masters Fattie races, I'll put him at #1.

I don't think you can say he's #1 since he's not racing in _New England_ masters races.

-WG

 

[Bret Wade]

warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<240720030821189262%[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Bret Wade
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Davide Tosi wrote:
> >
> > > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>6. Phinney
> > >
> > >
> > > I do not remember this guy at all. Did he ever race in Europe?
> >
> > I'm surpised that you don't remember a field sprinter who has won two TDF stages. After all, it
> > was you who said, "it's them (sprinters)that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder
> > to shoulder at 70 kmp/h". Phinney has been living in Marostica near Mt. Grappa recently.
>
> Do you know how he's doing (physically) these days?
>
> -WG

I have no first hand information, but have spoken to someone who knows him. Nothing specific, just
that he has his good days and bad days.

Bret

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:240720031512330302%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote
in
> > > news[email protected]:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I disagree with your stance.
> > > >
> > > > The Masters Fatties should be at the top of the list.
> > >
> > >
> > > And then Gaggioli, as a guy who won a lot of races in America.
> >
> >
> >
> > He claims to be the all-time winningest rider.
> >
> > Since he's won Masters Fattie races, I'll put him at #1.
>
> I don't think you can say he's #1 since he's not racing in _New England_ masters races.

****, you're right.

Danny Callen is #1.

 

[K. J. Papai]

Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> TC Rider wrote:
> > "Russ Baxter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>In the following order, for discussion purposes only:
> >>
> >> 1. Lemond
> >> 2. Armstrong
> >> 3. Hampsten
> >> 4. Hamilton
> >> 5. Hincapie
> >> 6. Phinney
> >> 7. Keifel
> >> 8. Boyer
> >> 9. Rodriquez
> >>10. Julich
> >>11. Vaughters
> >
> > I really like Vaughters, but why not make it "since 1975" and include George Mount for being the
> > first American to ride in a Grand Tour, and also for his 6th place on the Mount Royal course in
> > the Montreal Olympics -- which acocmplished the very rare feat of getting cycling on American
> > television, admittedly for a very, very short time. Helped pave the way for all the above in
> > Europe...
> >
> Good list (1980+). Others up there, but not in the top 11 perhaps, include
>
> 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
> 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
> 14. Kevin Livingston,
> 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
> 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
> 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
> 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
> 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
> 20. Roy Knickman,
> 21. Kent Bostick (durability),

All this and yet you leave off Levi Leipheimer? Horner over Levi? Vaughters over Levi? No way.

-Ken

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"K. J. Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
> > 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
> > 14. Kevin Livingston,
> > 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
> > 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
> > 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
> > 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
> > 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
> > 20. Roy Knickman,
> > 21. Kent Bostick (durability),
>
> All this and yet you leave off Levi Leipheimer? Horner over Levi? Vaughters over Levi? No way.

Vaughters does have the record for Mt. Ventoux.