Training

In news:[email hidden],
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's as near to flat as you're likely to get. Unless you go to that
place in America that scientists calculated was actually flatter
than a pancake...

I think it was Kansas.

Quoted message said:

Whatever. Obviously the slopes around where I live are a figment of
the imagination.

I think the point was that pancakes aren't very flat. And remember, the
earth is much smoother than a billiard ball.

A

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's as near to flat as you're likely to get. Unless you go to that
place in America that scientists calculated was actually flatter
than a pancake...

Err, no I didn't :-)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

In news:[email hidden],
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Doki wrote:
> It's as near to flat as you're likely to get. Unless you go to that
> place in America that scientists calculated was actually flatter
> than a pancake...

Err, no I didn't :-)

Sorry, I assumed you'd attributed your quoting.

A

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I assumed you'd attributed your quoting.

A

For some reason, AOL newsreader don't attribute - it does, however, give the
indents.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Whatever. Obviously the slopes around where I live are a figment of the
: imagination.

If you want really flat I can recommend south of York. I went to Howden
the other day for a change. The biggest thing I went up all day was a
flyover!

That said, after a few days seeing my parents in Wales, anywhere round
here (and indeed Norfolk) seem flat. And after two weeks in the Alps,
the North York Moors seem pretty flat.

Normally though "Flat" = anything I can go up in the big ring 🙂 So
Norfolk is flat 🙂

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Arthur Clune said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Whatever. Obviously the slopes around where I live are a figment of the
: imagination.

having just looked at the OS map for Dereham, they aren't far off flat.
There are a few little bumps.

Quoted message said:

If you want really flat I can recommend south of York. I went to Howden
the other day for a change. The biggest thing I went up all day was a
flyover!

We've got a flat estaurine flood plain running for about 15 miles from
Dundee. That is *flat*. The rest of it is quite rolling.

Quoted message said:

That said, after a few days seeing my parents in Wales, anywhere round
here (and indeed Norfolk) seem flat. And after two weeks in the Alps,
the North York Moors seem pretty flat.

Ouch.

Quoted message said:

Normally though "Flat" = anything I can go up in the big ring 🙂 So
Norfolk is flat 🙂

So that is a reasonable start for some definitions.

Flat - go uphill in the big ring on a TT bike. Flyovers and hump backed
bridges are major landscape features.
Rolling - small hills doable in the big ring if you push hard or long drags.
(< 50m height gain for any hill). No hill needs more than a few minutes out
of the big ring.
Hilly - climbs are longer and higher, taking tens of minutes and requiring
the small ring.
Mountainous - Climbs may take hours and need all the little gears.

Round here it is mostly rolling with some flat areas and some hilly. There
are a few very hilly regions reasonably close.

Might go and play with a small hill tonight as I ran out of time during the
week. 40min to get there, then 300+m of ascent in under 3km. Definitely
count as very hilly.

...d

Quoted message said:

having just looked at the OS map for Dereham, they aren't far off flat.
There are a few little bumps.

Sigh....

bumps = not flat.

And there's more to Norfolk than Dereham.

Mountainous Norfolk isn't - nor is it *flat*

'scuse me for *knowing* where I live.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

in message <[email hidden]>,

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers (') said:

Quoted message said:

having just looked at the OS map for Dereham, they aren't far off
flat. There are a few little bumps.

Sigh....

bumps = not flat.

And there's more to Norfolk than Dereham.

Mountainous Norfolk isn't - nor is it *flat*

'scuse me for *knowing* where I live.

I remember sitting in a pub in Gloucestershire, and hearing two old
locals talking about the cotswold hills. Practically mountains, they
were. And they weren't exaggerating or lying, just how they perceived
the world was different from how I perceive it. A mile and a half
behind my house you go up 350 metres, or, to put it differently, three
times as high as the cotswolds. And that's not even a big hill by
Galloway standards.

Yes, we know where you live. I've cycled across Norfolk more than once.
It is, by my standards, flat. I'm quite happy to believe that by your
standards it's not, but this is a semantic argument. Don't get
stressed.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

Quoted message said:

Yes, we know where you live. I've cycled across Norfolk more than once.
It is, by my standards, flat. I'm quite happy to believe that by your
standards it's not, but this is a semantic argument. Don't get
stressed.

I'm not stressed Simon. I've *never* claimed Norfolk is mountainous or even
very hilly, it just isn't flat - but there's several know-it-alls who don't
live in the county who claim to know it better than someone who does. But what
the heck, they are so obviously damn clever.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

Simon Brooke said:

I remember sitting in a pub in Gloucestershire, and hearing two old
locals talking about the cotswold hills. Practically mountains, they
were. And they weren't exaggerating or lying, just how they perceived
the world was different from how I perceive it. A mile and a half
behind my house you go up 350 metres, or, to put it differently, three
times as high as the cotswolds. And that's not even a big hill by
Galloway standards.

I've wondered about this a few times as I've struggled up the 'hills'
around here; when people here talk about hills, how high to they mean?
To me, hills are the 1150' lumps of rock either side of the valley I
live in. I'm sure there are people in North Wales and Scotland and the
Pennines who think of hills as being much bigger - do people elsewhere
talk about much smaller elevations as 'hills'?

Quoted message said:

Yes, we know where you live. I've cycled across Norfolk more than
once. It is, by my standards, flat. I'm quite happy to believe that
by your standards it's not, but this is a semantic argument. Don't get
stressed.

How high does Norfolk get?

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/

On 30/5/04 7:43 pm, in article [email hidden],

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

having just looked at the OS map for Dereham, they aren't far off flat.
There are a few little bumps.

Sigh....

bumps = not flat.

Didn't say they were flat, just not far off flat.

Quoted message said:

And there's more to Norfolk than Dereham.

I thought that was fairly close to your manor? maybe I am wrong there.

I remember the few visits to Norwich as being rolling countryside, but the
broads were definitely flat (mostly).

Quoted message said:

Mountainous Norfolk isn't - nor is it *flat*

'scuse me for *knowing* where I live.

Are we a little tetchy? You talked frequently about visiting various places
(and I looked up one of your localish ones). Having just grabbed the map off
the shelf it looks like there is a low ridge running north/south with some
wonderful place names on (like Hungry Hill). Gets up to about 100m by the
north coast (Beacon Hill is the highest point at about 100m, can't find an
accurate height quickly).
Gently rolling countryside is the impression I get from the map.

Round here it is a little more rolling, mildly hilly in the near vicinity if
the interesting routes are chosen.

...d

Quoted message said:

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

On 30/5/04 11:41 pm, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

Simon Brooke said:

I remember sitting in a pub in Gloucestershire, and hearing two old
locals talking about the cotswold hills. Practically mountains, they
were. And they weren't exaggerating or lying, just how they perceived
the world was different from how I perceive it. A mile and a half
behind my house you go up 350 metres, or, to put it differently, three
times as high as the cotswolds. And that's not even a big hill by
Galloway standards.

I used to think of the North Downs as big hills. Then I lived in Norway for
a while and discovered what riding uphill for many many miles really meant.
North Downs has small but very Evil hills. Legbreakers indeed.

Quoted message said:

I've wondered about this a few times as I've struggled up the 'hills'
around here; when people here talk about hills, how high to they mean?
To me, hills are the 1150' lumps of rock either side of the valley I
live in. I'm sure there are people in North Wales and Scotland and the
Pennines who think of hills as being much bigger - do people elsewhere
talk about much smaller elevations as 'hills'?

My local little hill with a road up it is just over 500'. The bigger hill
locally with a road up is 1500'. (Local means within a comfortable hours
ride.)

The various passes through the ranges of hills have ascents of the order of
3-400' vertical gain minimum. Glorious countryside for cycling.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, we know where you live. I've cycled across Norfolk more than
once. It is, by my standards, flat. I'm quite happy to believe that
by your standards it's not, but this is a semantic argument. Don't get
stressed.

How high does Norfolk get?

You could fold it in half twice and it would still be below the top of your
hills.

Having said that it is very pretty, just in a not very hilly way.

...d

Quoted message said:

I remember the few visits to Norwich as being rolling countryside, but the
broads were definitely flat (mostly).

Thank you - which is virtually exactly what I've been saying. But some of Those
Who Think They Know Better have been picking over.

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

Quoted message said:

Having said that it is very pretty, just in a not very hilly way.

Nor have I claimed it is very hilly - just undulating, but several of the
schoolyard bullies seem to insist it's flat. I just don't like schoolyard
bullies.

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

I remember the few visits to Norwich as being rolling countryside, but the
broads were definitely flat (mostly).

Thank you - which is virtually exactly what I've been saying. But some of Those
Who Think They Know Better have been picking over.

FFS. Cool it. This snideness is unnecessary over such a petty issue.
It's such a lovely day, go for a ride and get over it.

John B

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

Having said that it is very pretty, just in a not very hilly way.

Nor have I claimed it is very hilly - just undulating, but several of the
schoolyard bullies seem to insist it's flat. I just don't like schoolyard
bullies.

<groan>

John B

On 31/5/04 6:46 am, in article [email hidden],

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

Having said that it is very pretty, just in a not very hilly way.

Nor have I claimed it is very hilly - just undulating, but several of the
schoolyard bullies seem to insist it's flat. I just don't like schoolyard
bullies.

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

Paving slab flat
- the highest point on the landscape is the bridge over the motorway.
Freewheel downwind for ever.

Arthur flat
- To the uninitiated this is easily confused with rolling as it appears
lumpy. All bumps can be surmounted in the big ring without getting out of
the saddle.

Gently rolling
pastoral landscape requiring a reasonable set of gears for touring. Most
bumps can be ridden in the big ring albeit uncomfortably.

Surrey rolling
Arthur flat interspersed with short Evil (tm) hills at implausible
gradients.

Rolling
Not quite so gently rolling. Climbs may take some minutes to ascend.

Hilly
Adjective used to describe your area when you want to impress others
with it's lumpiness. Climbs may take more than ten minutes to ascend. AAA
points are probably available.

Mountainous.
Can spend over an hour going up. Get cramp in the hands coming down from
holding the brakes. Not only are AAA points available, so is a complete
mental checkout.

Fairly lumpy
used to describe an extremely mountainous area when downplaying its
severity.

...d

David Martin said:

Paving slab flat
- the highest point on the landscape is the bridge over the motorway.
Freewheel downwind for ever.

The Serious Climb on my commute in Amsterdam was the bridge over a
waterway, high enough for big ships to pass under.
I originally come from a vilage called "Bergen" which translates as
"mountains". It is at the coast where we have sand dunes that are a
whopping 50 m high :-)

Roos

On Sun, 30 May 2004 23:41:45 +0100,

Keith Willoughby said:

I've wondered about this a few times as I've struggled up the 'hills'
around here; when people here talk about hills, how high to they mean?

Near where I live is Horsey Hill - which on the OS map has a nice
convenient spot height on top - all of 7 metres. Seriously, if I head
east (even north-east or south-east) this is one of the highest point
for miles. To the north-west it gets a bit higher.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

On 31/5/04 9:52 am, in article [email hidden],

Roos Eisma said:

David Martin said:

Paving slab flat
- the highest point on the landscape is the bridge over the motorway.
Freewheel downwind for ever.

The Serious Climb on my commute in Amsterdam was the bridge over a
waterway, high enough for big ships to pass under.
I originally come from a vilage called "Bergen" which translates as
"mountains". It is at the coast where we have sand dunes that are a
whopping 50 m high :-)

Strangely enough the Norwegian city of Bergen is quite flat. But as soon as
you step out of the city it is mountainous to the extreme. Best described as
a flat city surrounded by seven very big mountains.

Of course having grown up in south London I always took the alternate views
that it had some big hills (ie Richmond Park) or was quite flat. My views
shifted dramatically towards the latter when I rode through the park on my
single speed commuter and made it up test hill with a rucksack full of
laundry on my back.

...d