Training

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

My area is . . .

[...]

Quoted message said:

Surrey rolling
Arthur flat interspersed with short Evil (tm) hills at implausible
gradients.

.. . . this going north-south and . . .

Quoted message said:

Hilly
Adjective used to describe your area when you want to impress others
with it's lumpiness. Climbs may take more than ten minutes to ascend. AAA
points are probably available.

.. . . this going east-west, although . . .

Quoted message said:

Mountainous.
Can spend over an hour going up. Get cramp in the hands coming down from
holding the brakes. Not only are AAA points available, so is a complete
mental checkout.

.. . . they do take *me* over an hour going up.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Fill with mingled cream and amber, I will drain that glass again."

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

You missed a description that's pretty common in England.

Interrupted
- broadly speaking flattish/slightly rolling, but interrupted by
river valleys, which may be deep, steep gorges.
Describes the countryside around here (West Devon) rather well.
Dartmoor undulates gently, but to get to my nearest town (Tavistock)
I have to cross a steep river valley. To get to Cornwall I have
another big one. To get to the Bere peninsula there's another ...

On a different scale, describes where I grew up in Sussex.

--
Nick Kew

On 31/5/04 10:49 am, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

My area is . . .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Surrey rolling
Arthur flat interspersed with short Evil (tm) hills at implausible
gradients.

Quoted message said:

. . . this going north-south and . . .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hilly
Adjective used to describe your area when you want to impress others
with it's lumpiness. Climbs may take more than ten minutes to ascend. AAA
points are probably available.

Quoted message said:

. . . this going east-west, although . . .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mountainous.
Can spend over an hour going up. Get cramp in the hands coming down from
holding the brakes. Not only are AAA points available, so is a complete
mental checkout.

. . . they do take *me* over an hour going up.

I had a quick look around rhydyfelin on the OS site. So that is where all
the chevrons went.. A breeding ground for Evil Hills (tm).

I think we need to add a new category which is ...

Welsh hilly.
As hilly but with added Evil in the form of lots of single and double
chevrons. Mountain goats have abandoned this area as too steep for
habitation. Sun reaches the bottom of the valleys for a few hours around
midday in the summer. (I have been to some places where the hills were so
high it was almost "the place where the sun don't shine"😉

...d

David Martin said:

Of course having grown up in south London I always took the alternate views
that it had some big hills (ie Richmond Park) or was quite flat. My views
shifted dramatically towards the latter when I rode through the park on my
single speed commuter and made it up test hill with a rucksack full of
laundry on my back.

Having grown up in South East London my view was originally that there
were some good big hills about (i.e., Shooters Hill) and plenty of quite
sizeable ones (climbing up to Bexleyheath from the A2, for example). I
had the hilliest paper round in the place, but "hilly" meant that on a
bad day I couldn't get up the hills doing a major honk in top gear.
Looking around the place now, it's... flat, for the most part.

Moving away gives me a greater perspective, it isn't I've forgotten that
you can't play billiards on the whole area.

Testing 'bents with Roos in the NL, obviously hill climbs wouldn't
really feature. Mr. Ligfietscentrum in Brielle said a bridge nearby had
a fair climb onto it (big bridge needing clearance for serious
waterborne cargo) but I can't say it really registered on my radar
beyond a quick burst up a bank.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Martin said:

On 31/5/04 10:49 am, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

. . . they do take *me* over an hour going up.

I had a quick look around rhydyfelin on the OS site. So that is where all
the chevrons went.. A breeding ground for Evil Hills (tm).

Yes! thank you! That's the kind of sympathy I need to hear 🙂

I've done most of those chevrons in the last couple of months, mostly
pushing. Mercifully, I did the double chevrons on the way down, which
was merely terrifying, rather than exhausting

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Jesus El Pifco was a foreigner and he knew it.

in message <[email hidden]>, David Martin

(') said:

On 31/5/04 9:52 am, in article
[email hidden], "Roos Eisma"

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

Paving slab flat
- the highest point on the landscape is the bridge over the
motorway.
Freewheel downwind for ever.

The Serious Climb on my commute in Amsterdam was the bridge over a
waterway, high enough for big ships to pass under.
I originally come from a vilage called "Bergen" which translates as
"mountains". It is at the coast where we have sand dunes that are a
whopping 50 m high :-)

Strangely enough the Norwegian city of Bergen is quite flat.

Just up the road from the village there's a farm called Farhills, mostly
because it's not very far and doesn't have any hills.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

You've omitted East Anglian Headwind. We may not have hills but we have
headwinds to cry for.

Tony

Andy Leighton said:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 23:41:45 +0100,

Keith Willoughby said:

I've wondered about this a few times as I've struggled up the 'hills'
around here; when people here talk about hills, how high to they mean?

Near where I live is Horsey Hill - which on the OS map has a nice
convenient spot height on top - all of 7 metres. Seriously, if I head
east (even north-east or south-east) this is one of the highest point
for miles. To the north-west it gets a bit higher.

As nice as that sounds, I think I enjoy freewheeling too much to want
it.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo

Andy Leighton said:

Near where I live is Horsey Hill - which on the OS map has a nice
convenient spot height on top - all of 7 metres. Seriously, if I head
east (even north-east or south-east) this is one of the highest point
for miles. To the north-west it gets a bit higher.

Still bet the first law of cycling still holds round your way*

Tony

* Cycling is always uphill and into the wind

On 30 May 2004 18:43:20 GMT, [email hidden]
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote (more or less):
....

Quoted message said:

there's more to Norfolk than Dereham.

Mountainous Norfolk isn't - nor is it *flat*

'scuse me for *knowing* where I live.

I suspect it's not your knowledge that differs. But what you, a
person living in Norfolk after all, think of as 'flat'.

After all, there're some tiny hills referred to in Denmark as the
'Danish Alps'. They're less than 50m high, iirc.

People who live round hills might easily think that Norfolk is flat.
After all, it is. Or you could tell us about the steepest or most
sustained gradient you have round your way.

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Tony Raven said:

Andy Leighton said:

Near where I live is Horsey Hill - which on the OS map has a nice
convenient spot height on top - all of 7 metres. Seriously, if I head
east (even north-east or south-east) this is one of the highest point
for miles. To the north-west it gets a bit higher.

Still bet the first law of cycling still holds round your way*

Tony

* Cycling is always uphill and into the wind

I remember going to my first interview. It took twice as long as normal
because there was a strong head-wind nearly all the way. As you remarked
yourself the fen winds more than make up for the lack of hills.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Nick Kew said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

You missed a description that's pretty common in England.

Interrupted
- broadly speaking flattish/slightly rolling, but interrupted by
river valleys, which may be deep, steep gorges.
Describes the countryside around here (West Devon) rather well.
Dartmoor undulates gently, but to get to my nearest town (Tavistock)
I have to cross a steep river valley. To get to Cornwall I have
another big one. To get to the Bere peninsula there's another ...

On a different scale, describes where I grew up in Sussex.

Sounds a lot like Surrey rolling. Gently rolling with small Evil Hills (tm).

I suppose we could call it Devonian, and the Welsh one Cambrian.

...d

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

So we now come up with a new scale of non-flatness..

You've omitted East Anglian Headwind. We may not have hills but we have
headwinds to cry for.

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary your
route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough to
blow you into a ditch.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Mark South said:

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary
your route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough
to blow you into a ditch.

In the tone of this thread I'm waiting for someone from lumpier parts to
protest they have headwinds there too ;-)

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Mark South said:

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary
your route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough
to blow you into a ditch.

In the tone of this thread I'm waiting for someone from lumpier parts to
protest they have headwinds there too ;-)

The great thing about 'lumpy bits' (tm) is that you can hide behind them
when it is windy and use the extra wind to save on brake wear on the
downhill..

Not complaining about headwinds (except when they are so strong you have to
pedal to go downhill).

(and yes, we do get them too.)

...d

On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:04:12 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary
your route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough
to blow you into a ditch.

In the tone of this thread I'm waiting for someone from lumpier parts to
protest they have headwinds there too ;-)

Naah - luckily we have non-flat bits* to act as wind-breaks. :-)

*previously known as hills

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>I remember the few visits to Norwich as being rolling countryside, but the
:>broads were definitely flat (mostly).

: Thank you - which is virtually exactly what I've been saying. But some of Those
: Who Think They Know Better have been picking over.

Sigh. I'm bowing out now. I've been to Norfolk. It's a lovely part of
the world. Really very nice. Just I'd call it flat. You might call it
rolling. I see no real problem here.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:04:12 +0100, "Tony Raven"

() said:

Mark South said:

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary
your route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough
to blow you into a ditch.

In the tone of this thread I'm waiting for someone from lumpier parts to
protest they have headwinds there too ;-)

We have tracking headwinds round here. Not as malicious as the East
Anglian ones,though.
--
Matt K
Dunedin, NZ
Mountainous, with long Evil Hills.

"Whingin' Pom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:04:12 +0100, "Tony Raven"

() said:

Mark South said:

And they are Tracking Headwinds (TM) so there's no way that you can vary
your route so as to get them behind you.

But if you are very lucky they will move round to the side for long enough
to blow you into a ditch.

In the tone of this thread I'm waiting for someone from lumpier parts to
protest they have headwinds there too ;-)

We have tracking headwinds round here. Not as malicious as the East
Anglian ones,though.
--
Matt K
Dunedin, NZ
Mountainous, with long Evil Hills.

Nobody forces you to live so close to Antarctica and so damn far from anyone
else. Bloody unsociable lot!
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>I remember the few visits to Norwich as being rolling countryside, but the
:>broads were definitely flat (mostly).

: Thank you - which is virtually exactly what I've been saying. But some of

Those

Quoted message said:

: Who Think They Know Better have been picking over.

Sigh. I'm bowing out now. I've been to Norfolk. It's a lovely part of
the world. Really very nice. Just I'd call it flat. You might call it
rolling. I see no real problem here.

I presently live right between a whole lot of Alps and a whole lot of other
mountains. As I see it, there are two aspects to the issue. One is how steep
the climbs are that you encounter. Another is the length of the climbs that you
encounter.

Around Cambridge, for example, there are a lot of short steep climbs. There's
also BLOODY, CURSED CHAPEL HILL (which I mention for those of you who know it
:-) which is steep and not short enough.

Around here there are a lot of climbs that go on and on and on for several
kilometres (sorry, don't have miles on the continent :-) but they are often not
as steep as the [censored] climbs in East Anglia.

So to categorise "hilliness" one has to take account of the frequency of hills,
their length (overall height), and their steepness/gradient.

And that said, I don't see any further need to argue, unless everyone wants to
declare an extension of URC Fight Week.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen