gvanwagner said:
EX. In awesome shape my 5MMP is 1.30IF and I can regularly nail 4 hr rides at IF's of .85. In about a wk of tapering/ a training interruption those will go to around 1.33 and .80IF. While the FTP is reasonably easy to regain the long term endurance takes ages.
After a bout a month of good training after a long interruption they will be around 1.38 and .78 respectively.
QUOTE]
sorry to drag up an old thread but I couldn't quite understand the above portion, i.e. the bolded portion in relation to the rest?
rmur
Yeh that post isn't the most clear, in fact it makes no sense at all, those are the values after a long interruption, For example, in July when I was off the bike for a couple weeks because of an IT band issue or in March when I went through a big aerobic power drain.
I have found pretty often that undertraining even short lived, leads to larger Pnorm/Pave gaps in what I can do for longer rides. For example after 2weeks of undertraining even if I can hit the same IF/Pnorm my ability to hit a high average power over a similar duration isn't the same. My guess it has to do tapering helping type 2 fibers and hurting endurance to a degree.
For example - some BStimating of what I find happens to me with undertraining
Start- 5MMP at 1.28- End rides at .83/4 with the ability to reproduce Pnorms as averages. 1 min at 560
3day taper- 5MMP at ~1.30, .85 for 3-4 hrs. All values higher then start but AWC and suprathreshold is kicking because of being rested, NMP is as good as it gets(bad). 1 min at 580
7Day undertraining- 5MMP ~1.32 , ~.83- 5MMP is still high with threshold taking a small hit. Long ride IF didn't suffer too bad but my ability to reproduce that ride's Pnorm as an average power does take somewhat of a hit. 1min ~constant maybe slightly more.
2 weeks Under/detraining- 5MMP ~1.35, ~.81/2. 5MMP Still relatively high and FTP taking another hit. Longer durations begins to take a hit as well and my ability to reproduce Pnorms as Paves. 1 min ~constant
That's how my timeline tends to go based on data for this season, some of the figures are tested and some are estimated but I think that it holds water and that most people experience similar effects. As far as physiological theory that also how it should go. Also, IMO, ectomorphs would get hurt worse than mesomorphs.
Also, I feel that being able to reproduce Pnorms as Paves and having a flat P/D curve are the two most important factors in recovery from efforts. I can't prove it but having a flat P/D curve is an indicator of aerobic fitness so it might be a "chicken or the egg" thing. I also think that the slope of your P/D curve is the first thing that tapering or detraining- depending on the degree- affects.
Also, the same undertraining seems to happens even if total stress if kept at a high enough level if the composition is bad for obvious reasons. For example, doing a whole bunch of short crits and L6/7 workouts exclusively.
These thoughts in theory hold up but the normal "my 2cents, YMMV" caveats apply.