Transitioning from Atkins

Roger Zoul said:

J. David Anderson wrote:
:: Phoenix wrote:
::: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:09 GMT, "DB" <[email hidden]>
::: wrote:
:::
:::
:::: Did you bother to read the book?
:::
:::
::: yes,i skimmed through it a couple months ago. The main thing is i
::: plan on eating over 60 g carbs per day eventually. Still not a
::: "normal" carb intake,but more than Atkins maintenance.Plus i will
::: be limiting fats, so it really wont be the Atkins diet anymore.
:::
::
::
:: I dropped sixty plus pounds a couple of years ago by heavily reducing
:: carbs, watching calories, and exercising daily. I didn't go as low as
:: Atkins followers believe is necessary, but I still lost the weight
:: very easily. I now eat "normal" carb levels, i.e., 150 grams per day
:: give or take ten or so, no junk carbs though, and have increased
:: calories to 2500 - 3000. I am not putting any fat on (over the last
:: eighteens months) and am very slowly increasing muscle.
::
:: Yes you can lose weight and then eat normally, but I truly doubt
:: that it can be done without exercise.

Cubit lost about 150 lbs with almost no exercise.

I didn't suggest that losing weight was not possible without exercise,
it is, but with more difficulty. I responded regarding both losing
weight and maintaining while eating normally. If Cubit can eat both the
quantities of food and the level of carbs that I can and do, then Cubit
has done brilliantly.

I still prefer my way, I enjoy exercise, as I suspect you do.

Regards

David

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Roger Zoul said:

J. David Anderson wrote:
:: Phoenix wrote:
::: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:09 GMT, "DB" <[email hidden]>
::: wrote:
:::
:::
:::: Did you bother to read the book?
:::
:::
::: yes,i skimmed through it a couple months ago. The main thing is i
::: plan on eating over 60 g carbs per day eventually. Still not a
::: "normal" carb intake,but more than Atkins maintenance.Plus i will
::: be limiting fats, so it really wont be the Atkins diet anymore.
:::
::
::
:: I dropped sixty plus pounds a couple of years ago by heavily reducing
:: carbs, watching calories, and exercising daily. I didn't go as low as
:: Atkins followers believe is necessary, but I still lost the weight
:: very easily. I now eat "normal" carb levels, i.e., 150 grams per day
:: give or take ten or so, no junk carbs though, and have increased
:: calories to 2500 - 3000. I am not putting any fat on (over the last
:: eighteens months) and am very slowly increasing muscle.

I'm not sure why you think that Atkins won't allow 150 g / day of carbs.
The maintenance phase could very easily allow that for very active people.
Just because you didn't follow the process to get there doesn't mean one
can't do it.

I don't think that at all Roger, my point is that sufficient exercise
will allow a normal diet. Normal as in nutritionally recommended for
health, not normal as in the previous levels that created the weight
problems.

I could hardly describe myself as following Atkins now, although, as you
point out, I well might be, as I didn't follow his recommended methods
for originally losing the weight. The only similarity was that by
stopping all carbs that didn't offer nutritional benefit, I reduced
carbs to way below my previous levels. My emphasis to lose the weight
was on cutting junk carbs and high levels of exercise to create a
calorie deficit. Not how *most* people follow Atkins.

Regards

David

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J. David Anderson wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: J. David Anderson wrote:
::::: Phoenix wrote:
:::::: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:09 GMT, "DB" <[email hidden]>
:::::: wrote:
::::::
::::::
::::::: Did you bother to read the book?
::::::
::::::
:::::: yes,i skimmed through it a couple months ago. The main thing is i
:::::: plan on eating over 60 g carbs per day eventually. Still not a
:::::: "normal" carb intake,but more than Atkins maintenance.Plus i will
:::::: be limiting fats, so it really wont be the Atkins diet anymore.
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::: I dropped sixty plus pounds a couple of years ago by heavily
::::: reducing carbs, watching calories, and exercising daily. I didn't
::::: go as low as Atkins followers believe is necessary, but I still
::::: lost the weight very easily. I now eat "normal" carb levels,
::::: i.e., 150 grams per day give or take ten or so, no junk carbs
::::: though, and have increased calories to 2500 - 3000. I am not
::::: putting any fat on (over the last eighteens months) and am very
::::: slowly increasing muscle.
:::::
::::: Yes you can lose weight and then eat normally, but I truly doubt
::::: that it can be done without exercise.
:::
::: Cubit lost about 150 lbs with almost no exercise.
::
:: I didn't suggest that losing weight was not possible without
:: exercise, it is, but with more difficulty. I responded regarding
:: both losing weight and maintaining while eating normally. If Cubit
:: can eat both the quantities of food and the level of carbs that I
:: can and do, then Cubit has done brilliantly.

Well, I'm not sure if he can do that, but I bet he'll maintain. His normal
as moved, as has mine. My "normal" used to include donuts, pies, cones,
supersize fries, etc.

::
:: I still prefer my way, I enjoy exercise, as I suspect you do.
::

Yes, I do recommend it and I enjoy it. The only reason I bring it up, is
because some folks can't/won't exercise, and I think it's important to not
rain on their parade by telling them they can't lose and maintain without
exercise. Many people lose fine without it. If fact, I think the OP did.

::
:: Regards
::
:: David
::
::
:: --
::
:: To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject
:: line.
::
:: All other mail is automatically deleted.

J. David Anderson wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: J. David Anderson wrote:
::::: Phoenix wrote:
:::::: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:09 GMT, "DB" <[email hidden]>
:::::: wrote:
::::::
::::::
::::::: Did you bother to read the book?
::::::
::::::
:::::: yes,i skimmed through it a couple months ago. The main thing is i
:::::: plan on eating over 60 g carbs per day eventually. Still not a
:::::: "normal" carb intake,but more than Atkins maintenance.Plus i will
:::::: be limiting fats, so it really wont be the Atkins diet anymore.
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::: I dropped sixty plus pounds a couple of years ago by heavily
::::: reducing carbs, watching calories, and exercising daily. I didn't
::::: go as low as Atkins followers believe is necessary, but I still
::::: lost the weight very easily. I now eat "normal" carb levels,
::::: i.e., 150 grams per day give or take ten or so, no junk carbs
::::: though, and have increased calories to 2500 - 3000. I am not
::::: putting any fat on (over the last eighteens months) and am very
::::: slowly increasing muscle.
:::
::: I'm not sure why you think that Atkins won't allow 150 g / day of
::: carbs. The maintenance phase could very easily allow that for very
::: active people. Just because you didn't follow the process to get
::: there doesn't mean one can't do it.
::
:: I don't think that at all Roger, my point is that sufficient exercise
:: will allow a normal diet. Normal as in nutritionally recommended for
:: health, not normal as in the previous levels that created the weight
:: problems.

I see what you mean, even though one could argue what "nutritionally
recommended for health" means.
But I do agree with that POV in general.

::
:: I could hardly describe myself as following Atkins now, although, as
:: you point out, I well might be, as I didn't follow his recommended
:: methods for originally losing the weight.

Well, I can certainly understand one not wishing to deal with induction.
While I think it does have some uses for some, it is by no means a necessary
part of a low carb plan. I should state that I don't follow Atkins either
technically, but I use the concepts and will even do an "induction" phase
myself, especially at the start of a year (after too much holiday cheer).
My personality is such that I just prefer to roll my own most of the time,
but I find it useful to read for harvesting ideas. Also, Atkins is what
really got me clued into low carb in general and I did faithfully follow it
as written until I felt comfortable enough to veer off.

The only similarity was
:: that by stopping all carbs that didn't offer nutritional benefit, I
:: reduced carbs to way below my previous levels. My emphasis to lose
:: the weight was on cutting junk carbs and high levels of exercise to
:: create a calorie deficit. Not how *most* people follow Atkins.

Well, that's essential what I did, but perhaps you included certain foods
that I didn't and perhaps you kept your carb levels higher than I did. I
tend to be a carb addict, though, so the restriction really helped me.
Also, exercise has always been a motivator for staying on course in my diet.
The effort put forth for 1-hour of hard exercise can easily be undone
(calorie-wise, i mean), in a very short time by sloppy diet. I seriously
don't like wasting time spent like that.

Phoenix said:

DB said:

Did you bother to read the book?

yes,i skimmed through it a couple months ago.

In other words, no you did not read the book.

Step one - Actually read the book so you know what the process
actually is.

Step two - Stop referring to Atkins if you're not actually doing it.

Quoted message said:

The main thing is i plan
on eating over 60 g carbs per day eventually.

So? When I followed the actual process my CCLL was 50
and my CCLM was 100. I typically eat near 90-100 these
days.

Quoted message said:

Still not a "normal"
carb intake,but more than Atkins maintenance.

"Normal" is too much. Therefore eating "normal" is bad.

Quoted message said:

Plus i will be limiting
fats, so it really wont be the Atkins diet anymore.

Except that the instructions do discuss fat intake so this is
yet another reason you shouldn't refer to Atkins until you
have actually read the book. On Atkins it is common to
gradually reduce fat intake to approximately match the
gradually increasing carb intake.

If you're doing fine on your current plan, go for it. Please
don't call it "Atkins" until you have actually read the book and
actually tried what the directions say.

It's pretty amazing how many people do that though. The most tiresome
thing about Atkins IMO, is trying to explain it to people who have no
clue about it, or LC in general.

--
Cheri

Doug Freyburger wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If you're doing fine on your current plan, go for it. Please
don't call it "Atkins" until you have actually read the book and
actually tried what the directions say.

Cheri wrote:
:: It's pretty amazing how many people do that though. The most tiresome
:: thing about Atkins IMO, is trying to explain it to people who have no
:: clue about it, or LC in general.

No kidding. You know, I'm at the point where I question the wisdom of even
trying.

::
:: --
:: Cheri
::
::
::
:: Doug Freyburger wrote in message
::
:::
::: If you're doing fine on your current plan, go for it. Please
::: don't call it "Atkins" until you have actually read the book and
::: actually tried what the directions say.

Cheri' gserviceatinreachdotcom said:

It's pretty amazing how many people do that though. The most
tiresome thing about Atkins IMO, is trying to explain it to people
who have no clue about it, or LC in general.

They've gotten used to getting their diet advice from 1-minute blurbs
on morning TV blather shows. It doesn't occur to them that a real
healthy diet might require more than a few sentences to explain, so
they catch the first few they hear about it and stop listening.

--
Aaron -- [email hidden] -- 285/240/200
http://www.myspace.com/aaronbaugher

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also
have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their
necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my
carpenters will build a gallows.You may follow your custom. And then
we will follow ours." -- General Sir Charles Napier

LClioness said:

I know of some that have switched to weight watchers from atkins and
lost weight. But they didn't have a major problem with carbs like I
do. If you have successfully lost 20 pounds so far on your "Atkins"
why stop? Just up the carbs for the days you exercise. I am able to
do this and still stay in ketosis.

Not for the OP, who seems too idiotic to take good advice anyways, but
in general...

I have used SweetTarts to titrate carbs for exercise. For me, there's
several advantages. First, I don't like the things, so there's no
"temptation" involved in having them around the house - absolutely no
chance I'll binge on them. Second, each one is 5 grams carb, a small
enough amount to be able to control the amount of carb easily.
Finally, it is a fast sugar so immediatly available when exercising -
if I underestimate what I need, I can just pop another one.

Basically, you start an exercise program, and at first, you probably
don't need any carbs at all. When you start ramping up the exercise,
amd find yourself "hitting a wall", you eat a SweetTart and see if it
sustains you at a particular exercise level. As your exercise level
increases over time, you eat more SweetTarts.

Test after the exercise. Best is to test bg, but you can also test for
ketosis. This lets you know that you are not overeating carb for the
amount of exercise you're doing. So... you can find out how much carb
you need for different amounts of exercise.

Once you gather the data... so you know you need X amount of carb to
ride Y miles on your bike, you can switch to something healthier than
candy. The candy is just for titration purposes because it's such a
small amount and accessible fast if you underestimate.

Aaron Baugher said:

Cheri said:

It's pretty amazing how many people do that though. The most
tiresome thing about Atkins IMO, is trying to explain it to people
who have no clue about it, or LC in general.

They've gotten used to getting their diet advice from 1-minute blurbs
on morning TV blather shows. It doesn't occur to them that a real
healthy diet might require more than a few sentences to explain, so
they catch the first few they hear about it and stop listening.

1) Carbs are a tool to be used to trigger fat loss, so start low
and build systematically to find your ideal level for loss and
later for maintenance. Use ketosis for loss then turn away
from it after you've lost.

2) Foods you commonly eat sometimes cause problems like
binging, so start with a restrictive list and add back systematically
to find what foods caused you problems and avoid those foods
from then on. Even the foods you always took for granted are
suspect at first.

Atkins really is that simple for its principles. Once the principles
are understood really any question about the process can be
answered. Don't memorize every detail - Memorize the principle
that when applied will give those answers.

The problem is neither principle makes sense on the surface.
If low is good it's obvious that lower is better. I've been eating
X all my life so I couldn't possibly have problems with X. And
it requires the sort of thought that folks rarely want. Many
prefer rules and menus to a few general principles.