Ultimate Spaghetti sauce--Your secrets/methods?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Scapaflow said:

I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I speak of sauce, I'm thinking
of the most sublime, whether Marinara, Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result, but I know much better is
possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once yielded good results but I now
get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best
sauce. My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces inferior to that made with
canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat and a small amount of Olive
oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow and red sweet pepper. Seems
to naturally contribute to the proper note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of
which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar. Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red,
white--I've not come to any conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local real butcher that produces
superior sausage. I do not drain any fats from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves shredded instead of 5-6,
depending on clove size and garlic flavor intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black pepper, fresh or dried Basil,
dash Worcestershire which I think adds complexity. Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves,
parsley, thyme, etc.

How do you make it taste Italian without those? And you should really try slipping in some Oregano
on the sly... It really brings out the tomato flavor. Skip the Worcestershire. (Or not, it's your
sauce!) If the tomatoes you are growing are not to your liking, don't resort to canned tomatoes
for the sauce. Buy some fresh that you *do* like. With the amount of simmering you're doing, they
should blend in wonderfully. If not, pop in a small can of tomato paste to thicken and add more
body. Drain at least some fat from the sauce, definitely not all, as you know. Some "good" ground
beef mixed with that pork sausage you're using will do you a world of good. That's all. This was a
drive by post.

Quoted message said:

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm interested in your agonies and
ecstasies.

Scapaflow

--
candeh

I'll add the following to this discussion:

I grew up calling spaghetti sauce GRAVY. To the canned plum tomatoes, usually Progresso, I added
tomato paste, and then the meats, sausage, meat balls and Brasciole, of course, sugar, basil, garlic
(lots), oregeno, fresh ground black pepper, kosher salt and chopped parsely. At times I used ripe
(must be ripe) Romas which were available on almost every corner of my neighborhood. Using fresh
tomatoes, you need to add a little water and let the tomatoes cook down before adding the other
ingredients

--
Life is like a roll of toilet paper the closer you get to the end... the faster it goes..

Bob Gottlieb

Nancy Young said:

Quoted post said:

If the tomatoes you are growing are not to your liking, don't resort to canned tomatoes for
the sauce.

I don't know what your experience has been with them, but I find canned tomatoes to be perfectly
good for tomato sauce. Sometimes I even prefer them to fresh, even at the height of tomato season.

nancy

Me too, nancy - tinned Molissanos give me a nice consistent product at all times.

Harry

Charlie, At what point do you add the Vermouth?

Charles Gifford said:

"Scapaflow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In past batches I've tried various whites and reds and have never been quite satisfied with the
result.

I frequently use red vermouth. It is very hearty and adds a lot of depth. It is somewhat sweet so I
don't add extra sugar as I otherwise would.

Charlie

"Interious" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charlie, At what point do you add the Vermouth?

It goes in with the tomatoes and their juice, garlic, water and/or broth, tomato sauce, and dried
herbs. I do the onion, celery, carrot thing in olive oil first. I don't use as much vermouth as I
would red wine as it is a little more pungent. for me that would be 2/3 cup red wine or 1/3 cup
vermouth. The ingredients I put in and when I do depends on whimsy and what I have on hand.

Charlie

snip>
* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black pepper, fresh or dried Basil, dash
Worcestershire which I think adds complexity. Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves, parsley,
thyme, etc.
snip>

I saw Tyler Florence on his cooking show make a simple tomato sauce where instead of using dried
oregano, he used dried marjoram. I think I'll try using it next time instead or the usual oregano.

Dee

"Scapaflow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I speak of sauce, I'm thinking
of the most sublime, whether Marinara, Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result, but I know much better is
possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once yielded good results but I now
get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best
sauce. My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces inferior to that made with
canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat and a small amount of Olive
oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow and red sweet pepper. Seems
to naturally contribute to the proper note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of
which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar. Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red,
white--I've not come to any conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local real butcher that produces
superior sausage. I do not drain any fats from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves shredded instead of 5-6,
depending on clove size and garlic flavor intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black pepper, fresh or dried Basil,
dash Worcestershire which I think adds complexity. Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves,
parsley, thyme, etc.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm interested in your agonies and
ecstasies.

Scapaflow

In article <[email hidden]>,

Scapaflow said:

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

I make a very simple meat sauce. The only vegetable in it is an onion. Oh, I add garlic, and of
course it's a tomato sauce base, but as far as chopped-and-sauted vegetables it's just onion.

I agree with your comments as to quality of ingredients and simmering time.

Oh, wine -- usually a little red, to extract some flavor components from the tomato.

--
Mark Shaw contact info at homepage --> panix.com~mshawOpen ↗
========================================================================
"[The Blues] is the kind of music that doesn't mince words -- it gets right to it." -Bonnie Raitt

The mirepoix-- finely cut-up onion, carrot, celery, as described by Naomi, preceeding, is crucial.
Wine = white, instead of red Meat = veal, either 100% or at least 50% veal always. Veal adds
richness to whatever flavor you are chasing, and can be successfully used by itself, particularly in
concert with wild mushrooms. Porcini + veal is a great combination. Tomato: the best I have found,
also with the best price, is Trader Joe's plum tomatoes, $.89/can. Food process it first; it has a
wonderful fresh slightly sweet tomato flavor. I think it is better than tomato's costing twice as
much, and better than most imported. Milk, as described by Marcella Hazan in her books Marcella's
recipes on Italian are as important as Julia's are for French cooking, particularly her dialogue
about ragu. Finally, don't overbrown the meat, and cook very slowly for several hours, as described
by Ms. Hazan. Cheers, Kent

Scapaflow said:

I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I speak of sauce, I'm thinking
of the most sublime, whether Marinara, Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result, but I know much better is
possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once yielded good results but I now
get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best
sauce. My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces inferior to that made with
canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat and a small amount of Olive
oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow and red sweet pepper. Seems
to naturally contribute to the proper note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of
which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar. Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red,
white--I've not come to any conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local real butcher that produces
superior sausage. I do not drain any fats from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves shredded instead of 5-6,
depending on clove size and garlic flavor intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black pepper, fresh or dried Basil,
dash Worcestershire which I think adds complexity. Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves,
parsley, thyme, etc.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm interested in your agonies and
ecstasies.

Scapaflow

Scapaflow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow and red sweet pepper. Seems
to naturally contribute to the proper note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of
which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar. Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red,
white--I've not come to any conclusions.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local real butcher that produces
superior sausage. I do not drain any fats from my sauce.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves shredded instead of 5-6,
depending on clove size and garlic flavor intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black pepper, fresh or dried Basil,
dash Worcestershire which I think adds complexity. Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves,
parsley, thyme, etc.

For peppers, you can always try something besides the sweet/bell peppers. Even if you are adverse
to hot peppers, there are mild banana and cherry peppers and such that add flavor. If you don't
mind a bit of heat, you have even more options. Some people say even a pinch of red pepper fills
out the sauce.

For meat, try chicken thighs. They are cheap, and work great with these sauces. Think Cacciatore.

For garlic, you can always a a few UNpeeled cloves. They will cook and mellow, and you can either
remove them, or peel and smash if you decide there isn't enough garlic flavor. If you remove them
after long simmering, you can spread them on bread.

For spices and herbs, I often use celery leaves. The pale inner leaves are the best. This is an
underrated herb, but well worth trying. I rarely use oregano, and if I do it is in very small
amounts. I also often add fennel seed if I am short on basil. It needs to simmer for a long time, so
add it with the tommatoes, not at the last minute. You can also use fennel bulb. It is milder, but
will be used in larger amounts, and will help thicken the sauce. If you like thick chunky sauces, it
is very good.

Dean G.