underwater swimming

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Mrat, Sep 15, 2003.

  1. Mrat

    Mrat Guest

    I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

    I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

    To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for about
    5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

    For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in 5
    minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
    after a 10min break.

    so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!
     
    Tags:


  2. mrat <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    >open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

    >To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for about
    >5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

    This is also why you're fainting. You're purging most of the CO2 from your body, which is the
    impetus to breathe. This lets you get further, but when your O2 level gets too low you pass out.

    Highly dangerous stuff unless you have a spotter dedicated to you for this endeavor.

    Is this pool 62yards long? It's an odd distance.

    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  3. Hi Mrat(?),

    If I remember correctly from my Padi scuba diving course, it can be quite dangerous to first deeply
    breath in and out a lot before going under water.... There was something about the brain thinking it
    still has enough oxygen in the blood, while actually most of the oxygen in the blood was already
    used up, causing a lack of oxygen in the brain and fainting.

    I have seen people train on swimming underwater for longer distances... in one pool session they
    build up from shorter distances, to longer distances, taking rests in between.... the key seemed to
    be safing energy (and oxygen) as much as possible and swimming long and streamlined.

    mrat wrote:
    > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    > open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).
    >
    > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    >
    > To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
    > about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)
    >
    > For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
    > 5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
    > after a 10min break.
    >
    > so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!
     
  4. Dakitty

    Dakitty Guest

    "mrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    > open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).
    >
    > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    >
    > To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
    > about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)
    >
    > For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
    > 5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
    > after a 10min break.
    >
    > so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

    Why are you trying to swim underwater?
     
  5. De Valois

    De Valois Guest

    mrat left this mess on 2 Sep 2003 13:26:25 -0700 for The Way to clean up:
    >
    >I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    >open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).
    >
    >I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    >1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    >2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    >
    >To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for about
    >5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)
    >
    >For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
    >5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
    >after a 10min break.
    >
    >so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

    You're becoming hypoxic, which means you're over-oxygenating. As someone else pointed out, this is
    not letting your body trigger its mechanism for cabon dioxide buildup, which is contributing to
    passing out underwater.

    Here's what you need to do:

    1) Don't walk around the pool first. Increased aerobic capacity *will* help, but you need to
    actually train when you're not about to do this. All you're doing now is tiring yourself out.

    2) Three deep breaths in the water just before you push off the wall should be all you need to go
    the distance, conditioning permitting.

    3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but release
    air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible decompression hits
    (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the
    water, if you are not careful.)

    4) Work on your technique. You'll probably find the breaststroke is the most efficient stroke for
    your goals (it allows the most gliding).

    I've personally gone 70 yards underwater, when I was swimming competitively. You should be able to
    get to 62.

    Tao te Carl

    "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
     
  6. Colin Priest

    Colin Priest Guest

    To state the obvious, you fainted because you did too much activity without breathing. What you are
    attempting is incredibly dangerous and serves no valid purpose. Perhaps we'll read about you soon in
    the Darwin awards.

    "mrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    > open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).
    >
    > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    >
    > To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
    > about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)
    >
    > For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
    > 5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
    > after a 10min break.
    >
    > so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!
     
  7. de Valois <[email protected]> wrote:
    >3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
    > release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
    > decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
    > a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

    How exactly is he going to get bent in a few feet of water (or anything less than 30ft), and how is
    exhaling (which is good to do for staying comfortable) going to change it? There isn't enough
    nitrogen in that breath to hurt him.

    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  8. Colin Priest <[email protected]> wrote:
    >To state the obvious, you fainted because you did too much activity without breathing. What you are
    >attempting is incredibly dangerous and serves no valid purpose. Perhaps we'll read about you soon
    >in the Darwin awards.

    He could just sit on the chair and type into the newsgroups. So long as he has someone watching,
    what's the harm? This is far less dangerous than deep air diving records.

    Anyone ought to be able to get up to 25 yards - the challenge past 50 is the lack of a facility to
    do it as few pools are longer.

    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  9. mrat wrote:
    >
    > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
    > open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

    These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to save
    your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the surface, lift
    you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.

    > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

    You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you try
    underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few minutes.
    When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't want to
    subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much (take too many
    deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that system. Once it
    fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but surfacing and breathing
    before it happens.

    martin

    --
    Martin Smith email: [email protected] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
    P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway
     
  10. de Valois wrote:
    > 3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
    > release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
    > decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
    > a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

    You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.

    martin

    --
    Martin Smith email: [email protected] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
    P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway
     
  11. De Valois

    De Valois Guest

    Jason O'Rourke left this mess on Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:34:38 +0000 (UTC) for The Way to clean up:
    >
    >de Valois <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
    >> release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
    >> decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
    >> a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)
    >
    >How exactly is he going to get bent in a few feet of water (or anything less than 30ft), and how is
    >exhaling (which is good to do for staying comfortable) going to change it? There isn't enough
    >nitrogen in that breath to hurt him.
    >

    Do we know how deep the pool is? What if there's a diving platform and he's skimming the bottom to
    extend his distance and he's down around 12 feet?

    He could certainly get bent there. We include in "bent", all forms of AGE, you'll recall and a lung
    expansion injury, especially if he's forcing a breath-hold, is a definite possibility at 12 feet.

    Tao te Carl

    "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
     
  12. De Valois

    De Valois Guest

    Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    >
    >de Valois wrote:
    >>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
    >> release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
    >> decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
    >> a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)
    >
    >You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.
    >

    Not so. Free divers get bent too.

    Tao te Carl

    "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
     
  13. de Valois wrote:
    >
    > Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    > >
    > >de Valois wrote:
    > >>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
    > >> release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
    > >> decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air
    > >> only a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)
    > >
    > >You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.
    > >
    >
    > Not so. Free divers get bent too.

    Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would have
    to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool, compressed
    air or not.

    martin

    --
    Martin Smith email: [email protected] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
    P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway
     
  14. Martin W. Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >de Valois wrote:
    >> You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
    >> which is a form of the bends.
    >
    >No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
    >ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.

    Correct. If we're going to be anal about terms in order to make up for our incorrect statements,
    let's get it straight, Carl.

    DCS=decompression sickness=bends. Free divers can get bent if they dive very deep repeatedly. Deep
    means 100ft+. DCI=decompression illness, which can be either DCS or AGE. He's in no danger of this
    in a pool either. This term is used because in an emergency situation, the immediate care is the
    same regardless of which type it is.

    There is no doubt what happened to the guy - he successfully hyperventilated and then went hypoxic.
    If he switches to just doing a few deep breathes he may lose a few meters for a while, but with a
    lower chance of it happening again. Then he can work on getting just a bit better.
    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  15. de Valois <[email protected]> wrote:
    >A difference which makes no difference is no difference, Factboy.
    >
    >If you'll recall, I did not say he HAD a hit, rather in the course of giving him tips regarding
    >swimming for distance underwater, he should take pains to not try to hold his breath because of the
    >(admittedly slight) possibility of a DCI hit (popularly called the bends, and of course, I used the
    >layman's terms to make it clear to non-divers what I was talking about).

    You never improve the layman by using the wrong term. Why not say oxygen tank while you're at it.
    The bends is a very specific term, coined centuries before you or I started diving, with the caisson
    workers who most definitely did not suffer an embolism.

    Martin and I have both tried to help you here, but you're as intractable as ever, Shovelboy.

    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  16. De Valois

    De Valois Guest

    Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:31:00 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    >
    >de Valois wrote:
    >>
    >>Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    >> >
    >> >de Valois wrote:
    >>>>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge
    >>to
    >>>> exhale, but release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also
    >>>> prevent any possible decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and
    >>yes,
    >>>>they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the water, if you are not
    >> >> careful.)
    >> >
    >> >You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.
    >> >
    >>
    >> Not so. Free divers get bent too.
    >
    >Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would have
    >to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool, compressed
    >air or not.
    >

    You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury which
    is a form of the bends.

    In fact, from what the OP put up here, he may have been a prime candidate for one. The fact that he
    fainted tells me he was probably holding his breath and might have been straining to do so. As the
    muscles in his chest tighten, they constrict the ability of the lungs to re-expand. They will
    contract even at ten feet.

    Think of it in these terms: you take a balloon, and squeeze it as you descend, continue to squeeze
    it on the bottom, and then hold that squeeze as you re-ascend. The balloon, which had formerly fit
    in your hands, will now be squeezing thru the spaces between your fingers. THAT'S a lung injury.

    One more thing: your odds of getting bent are far greater in the last thirty feet of water than they
    are at any point in ascending from a greater depth. The proportionate change in pressure is much
    bigger, and in that thirty feet, each third of it is more dangerous than the previous one.

    Tao te Carl

    "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
     
  17. De Valois

    De Valois Guest

    Jason O'Rourke left this mess on Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:17:26 +0000 (UTC) for The Way to clean up:
    >
    >Martin W. Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>de Valois wrote:
    >>> You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
    >>> which is a form of the bends.
    >>
    >>No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
    >>ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.
    >
    >Correct. If we're going to be anal about terms in order to make up for our incorrect statements,
    >let's get it straight, Carl.
    >
    >DCS=decompression sickness=bends. Free divers can get bent if they dive very deep repeatedly. Deep
    >means 100ft+. DCI=decompression illness, which can be either DCS or AGE. He's in no danger of this
    >in a pool either. This term is used because in an emergency situation, the immediate care is the
    >same regardless of which type it is.
    >

    A difference which makes no difference is no difference, Factboy.

    If you'll recall, I did not say he HAD a hit, rather in the course of giving him tips regarding
    swimming for distance underwater, he should take pains to not try to hold his breath because of the
    (admittedly slight) possibility of a DCI hit (popularly called the bends, and of course, I used the
    layman's terms to make it clear to non-divers what I was talking about).

    If he swims along the bottom to increase his distance, then he might...*might*...conceivably reach a
    depth where DCI is a remote possibility, say at the diving board end of a community pool, which
    might range as deep as twelve feet.

    The advice to not hold his breath still stands. He can get a DCI hit, because you have no way of
    knowing whether his alveoli aren't damaged to begin with.

    Tao te Carl

    "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
     
  18. de Valois wrote:
    >
    > Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:31:00 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    > >
    > >de Valois wrote:
    > >>
    > >>Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
    > >> >
    > >> >de Valois wrote:
    > >>>>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge
    > >>to
    > >>>> exhale, but release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also
    > >>>> prevent any possible decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and
    > >>yes,
    > >>>>they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the water, if you are not
    > >> >> careful.)
    > >> >
    > >> >You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> Not so. Free divers get bent too.
    > >
    > >Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would
    > >have to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool,
    > >compressed air or not.
    > >
    >
    > You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
    > which is a form of the bends.

    No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
    ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.

    > In fact, from what the OP put up here, he may have been a prime candidate for one. The fact that
    > he fainted tells me he was probably holding his breath and might have been straining to do so. As
    > the muscles in his chest tighten, they constrict the ability of the lungs to re-expand. They will
    > contract even at ten feet.

    He wasn't at ten feet. He was swimming for distance in a competition swimming pool. The bends has
    nothing to do with ruptured lungs.

    > Think of it in these terms: you take a balloon, and squeeze it as you descend, continue to squeeze
    > it on the bottom, and then hold that squeeze as you re-ascend. The balloon, which had formerly fit
    > in your hands, will now be squeezing thru the spaces between your fingers. THAT'S a lung injury.

    Yes, that is a lung injury. It has nothing to do with the bends. And, when you are not breathing
    compressed air, your lungs cannot expand further than they were extended when you took the breath
    you are holding.

    > One more thing: your odds of getting bent are far greater in the last thirty feet of water than
    > they are at any point in ascending from a greater depth. The proportionate change in pressure is
    > much bigger, and in that thirty feet, each third of it is more dangerous than the previous one.

    For the last time, getting bent refers to the pain caused by bubbles of nitrogen forming in the body
    tissues. It has nothing to do with ruptured lungs.

    martin

    --
    Martin Smith email: [email protected] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
    P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway
     
  19. Dory

    Dory Guest

    I was just wondering how one goes about increasing the distance one can swim underwater at the pool
    (no great depth).

    "Martin W. Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > mrat wrote:
    > >
    > > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool
    > > was open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of
    > > water).
    >
    > These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to save
    > your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the surface, lift
    > you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.
    >
    > > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    >
    > You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you try
    > underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few minutes.
    > When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't want to
    > subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much (take too many
    > deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that system. Once it
    > fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but surfacing and breathing
    > before it happens.
    >
    > martin
     
  20. Gwydion

    Gwydion Guest

    Scuba tanks

    Dory wrote:
    >
    > I was just wondering how one goes about increasing the distance one can swim underwater at the
    > pool (no great depth).
    >
    > "Martin W. Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > mrat wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool
    > > > was open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of
    > > > water).
    > >
    > > These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to
    > > save your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the
    > > surface, lift you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.
    > >
    > > > I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
    > > > 1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
    > > > 2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.
    > >
    > > You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you
    > > try underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few
    > > minutes. When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't
    > > want to subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much
    > > (take too many deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that
    > > system. Once it fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but
    > > surfacing and breathing before it happens.
    > >
    > > martin
     
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