unopened glue dries out?

That is a common problem. Always carry a spare unopened tube just in case. I
always do this touring, it has no shelve life after being opened for some
reason.

"Ben Pfaff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

(Good thing I also carry a spare tube.)
--
Ben Pfaff
email: [email hidden]
web: http://benpfaff.org

Quoted message said:

That is a common problem. Always carry a spare unopened tube just in
case. I always do this touring, it has no shelve life after being
opened for some reason.

If you read more carefully, you'll notice the OP said that the tube was
"still factory sealed."
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal?

Not 'normal' but it does happen sometimes. But it didn't dry out
"while it was sealed" but rather because it wasn't sealed. Sometimes
the crimped bottom end of the tube has a tiny leak or there may have
been a pinhole elsewhere..

Quoted message said:

How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

Age is not a good indicator. I've found such empty tubes in brand new
patch kits. Generally you can detect the problem by feeling the weight
of the tube. Since I almost always run out of patches before I use up
all the glue I end up with some extra tubes of glue. So I keep two
tubes of glue in my patch kits (one opened, the other one still sealed).

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit, I
had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed. The
tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube from
its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out. I
assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is that
normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I should
consider throwing it out?

As with other things in the bicycle business, these glue tubes have
failed for ever and ever while manufacturers delude themselves into
believing the users don't put the cap on properly. I can show you
tube of glue, be that tire patch glue or tubular rim cement, that
dried out without the metal in the screw cap end ever being pierced.

These folks will tell you that "Hey! Who knows more about glue, we
who have been in the business fore eons, or some punk bicyclists who
can't properly screw on the cap?" The volatile essence of the glue
doesn't go through metal but it does leak through a pressure crimp at
the base of the tube, both from temperature and atmospheric pressure
change and the partial pressure laws that make it want to get out.

How long do these folks believe the tube would hold air if inflated?
Not at all! Well the evaporated solvent is no more viscous than air.

Jobst Brandt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:41:03 -0800, Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal?

If, by "normal", you mean "common", then the answer is "yes".

Quoted message said:

How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

The best brands use tubes that are heat-welded shut; those will remain
good for a very long time if not opened. That's not the common
method, however; most are just crimped. The crimped joint permits a
slow evaporation of the very volatile solvents in the glue. Once the
tube is opened, solvent evaporation through the cap and threads will
be at the same rate as the crimped bottom or greater. I consider the
average tube to be unreliable after one full season if unopened, and
two months if it's been opened. (We have hot summers, which
exacerbates the problem.) I keep the retired tubes of glue around,
and open them for a patching session, one at a time, until I find one
that's useful. By the next session, it's almost always hardened to
uselessness.

Quoted message said:

(Good thing I also carry a spare tube.)

Yup.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

(Good thing I also carry a spare tube.)

I learned that this stuff was called Vulcanizing Fluid, and that it
works by more or less "melting" the rubber on the inner tube and the
patch, to form a solid bond between them. I just looked at a couple of
tubes in my garage, and one said it contained "Vulcanizing Tube Cement",
and the other, "Rubber Cement". A third tube didn't say what the heck
it contained. Naturally, most of these tubes seem to be dry as a bone.

Where can one buy just the rubber cement, glue, or whatever the heck it is?

Colin Campbell said:

I learned that this stuff was called Vulcanizing Fluid, and that it
works by more or less "melting" the rubber on the inner tube and the
patch, to form a solid bond between them. I just looked at a couple of
tubes in my garage, and one said it contained "Vulcanizing Tube Cement",
and the other, "Rubber Cement". A third tube didn't say what the heck
it contained. Naturally, most of these tubes seem to be dry as a bone.

Where can one buy just the rubber cement, glue, or whatever the heck it is?

Elmer's, any drugstore or office supply store. Bottle's a bit big to
carry in a seat bag though. I use it to patch tubes at home. For the
road, you can buy cheapo patch kits for 99 cents at most 99 cent
stores. The patches are thicker and not as nice as Remas, but they
work, and it's a cheap source of little tubes of cement.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit, I
had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed. The
tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube from
its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out. I
assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is that
normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I should
consider throwing it out?

As with other things in the bicycle business, these glue tubes have
failed for ever and ever while manufacturers delude themselves into
believing the users don't put the cap on properly. I can show you
tube of glue, be that tire patch glue or tubular rim cement, that
dried out without the metal in the screw cap end ever being pierced.

These folks will tell you that "Hey! Who knows more about glue, we
who have been in the business fore eons, or some punk bicyclists who
can't properly screw on the cap?" The volatile essence of the glue
doesn't go through metal but it does leak through a pressure crimp at
the base of the tube, both from temperature and atmospheric pressure
change and the partial pressure laws that make it want to get out.

How long do these folks believe the tube would hold air if inflated?
Not at all! Well the evaporated solvent is no more viscous than air.

The molecular weight of hexane is 80 so it will be a
little more viscous than air. Maybe by a factor of 5/3.

Hexane, boiling point 69 C.
Vapor pressure at 20 C: 0.159 atm
Vapor pressure at 25 C: 0.199 atm
Vapor pressure at 30 C: 0.246 atm

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Colin Campbell said:

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

(Good thing I also carry a spare tube.)

I learned that this stuff was called Vulcanizing Fluid, and that it
works by more or less "melting" the rubber on the inner tube and the
patch, to form a solid bond between them. I just looked at a couple of
tubes in my garage, and one said it contained "Vulcanizing Tube Cement",
and the other, "Rubber Cement". A third tube didn't say what the heck
it contained. Naturally, most of these tubes seem to be dry as a bone.

Where can one buy just the rubber cement, glue, or whatever the heck it is?

You can often buy large cans in auto supply stores. Rubber
cement and rubber cement thinner at art supply stores. The
solvent is hexane. For tube cement use common rubber
cement mixed one to one with rubber cement thinner. I have
been able to buy individual small tubes of patch cement at
bicycle stores.

--
Michael Press

Colin Campbell said:

Ben Pfaff said:

I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
I had to pierce the tube of glue, which was still factory sealed.
The tube appeared to be empty: even when I rolled the whole tube
from its bottom to the pierced end, I couldn't get anything out.
I assume this means that it dried out while it was sealed. Is
that normal? How old can an unopened tube of glue be before I
should consider throwing it out?

(Good thing I also carry a spare tube.)

I learned that this stuff was called Vulcanizing Fluid, and that it
works by more or less "melting" the rubber on the inner tube and the
patch, to form a solid bond between them.

It doesn't. The butyl rubber of the tube won't liquefy with the
solvents in the glue. That's why the instructuctions for use
explicitly call for the glue to be allowed to *dry* before the patch
is applied. The surface of the patch is a material that's naturally
adhesive to the dried glue. The misapplied terminology of calling the
glue "vulcanizing fluid" derives from the period in the 1950s when
tubeless tires were first making serious inroads into the domestic US
tire market; the method of patching tubes until then had been via the
use of true vulcanizing patches, which had a combustible charge in a
metal pan, with the patch on the bottom of the pan. The pan was
clamped over the hole in the tube, the combustible charge was ignited,
and the heat vulcanized the patch in place on the tube. Used
carelessly, the heat could burn a hole in the tube around the edge of
the patch. The system was slow, hazardous, cumbersome and expensive,
but was also regarded by the public as the only thing that worked
well. With the advent of the tubeless tire, attempts were made to
develop a true vulcanizing patch system for them, but these all proved
to be more expensive and troublesome than could be tolerated, so at
last the effort was put into developing an effective cold patch, which
has changed little since then. In order to get the cold patches
accepted by the general public, the glue (which is, in fact, just a
variant of common rubber cement) was called "vulcanizing fluid" even
though it did nothing of the sort.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at a couple of
tubes in my garage, and one said it contained "Vulcanizing Tube Cement",
and the other, "Rubber Cement". A third tube didn't say what the heck
it contained. Naturally, most of these tubes seem to be dry as a bone.

Yup. That's typical. Beware of buying a patch kit that has dust on
the package; the tube of glue will probably be dried out before you
get it. This is a frequent hazard in small stores in rural areas.

Quoted message said:

Where can one buy just the rubber cement, glue, or whatever the heck it is?

Lots of places. Metal-lidded cans of the stuff, which don't dry out
as quickly as the tubes, can be had at any auto parts store. (Put a
little grease on the threads to keep the lid from getting glued in
place, and keep the lid tight.) I have also used regular rubber
cement from hardware stores and office supply stores with the same
results in most cases. The stuff that's sold for tire patching has a
few added volatile fractions which make it slightly more effective for
installation of the fibrous plugs used for quick sealing of punctures
in automotive tires.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

email hidden said:

Colin Campbell said:

I learned that this stuff was called Vulcanizing Fluid, and that it
works by more or less "melting" the rubber on the inner tube and the
patch, to form a solid bond between them. I just looked at a couple of
tubes in my garage, and one said it contained "Vulcanizing Tube Cement",
and the other, "Rubber Cement". A third tube didn't say what the heck
it contained. Naturally, most of these tubes seem to be dry as a bone.

Where can one buy just the rubber cement, glue, or whatever the heck it is?

Elmer's,

Elmer's *Rubber Cement*, not the regular Elmer's Glue. The latter is
an entirely different and unsuitable water-based product.

Quoted message said:

any drugstore or office supply store. Bottle's a bit big to
carry in a seat bag though. I use it to patch tubes at home. For the
road, you can buy cheapo patch kits for 99 cents at most 99 cent
stores. The patches are thicker and not as nice as Remas, but they
work, and it's a cheap source of little tubes of cement.

Some of the 99-cent-store patch kits are merely glue donors; I've run
across some whose "patches" were useless, made from the wrong material
entirely. Camel, Monkey Grip, Victor and Slime are all brands that
are known to have essentially identical good-quality patches.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Maybe there was no glue in the tube in the first place.

I received anonymous email as follows:

#>> I had a flat today. When I pulled out my (pretty old) patch kit,
#>> ...

#> As with other things in the bicycle business, these glue tubes have
#> failed for ever and ever while manufacturers delude themselves into
#> believing the users don't put the cap on properly. I can show you
#> tube of glue, be that tire patch glue or tubular rim cement, that
#> dried out without the metal in the screw cap end ever being
#> pierced.

# Try this sometime. Carry around a 1" length of Teflon tape in your
# patch kit (arranged so it will stay flat and won't end up in a
# ball). After you open and use the tube, cover the end with the
# tape, stretched a little and doubled over (double thickness). Then
# put the lid back on. When you get back home, put a new piece of
# tape in the kit. Don't try to reuse the old tape.

# I have been doing this for about 15 years and have not had a single
# tube go dry on me. Actually, I now put the tape on when I get a new
# patch kit as I had a new, unopened tube go dry on me this spring
# also.

# This summer I was cleaning out my metal shed (that often sees 125F)
# and found an old patch kit with the tube treated this way from
# around 1994. The glue was still good. I used it and the two
# patches I glued with what was left are still holding.

I see that the subject heading and subsequent discussion is too
difficult to follow. If the tube is dried out before it is opened,
Teflon tape cannot regenerate its liquid glue or vulcanizing fluid.

Thanks for the thought,

Jobst Brandt

"Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) (Put a little grease on the threads to keep
the lid from getting glued in place, and keep the lid tight.) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I use teflon plumbers tape on things like this--works quite well.

Werehatrack said:

Some of the 99-cent-store patch kits are merely glue donors; I've run
across some whose "patches" were useless, made from the wrong material
entirely. Camel, Monkey Grip, Victor and Slime are all brands that
are known to have essentially identical good-quality patches.

I use a 3M rubber cement and a piece of a donor tube for a patch (glue
on both surfaces). Does that make me a bad boy?

Quoting <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I received anonymous email as follows:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

believing the users don't put the cap on properly. I can show you
tube of glue, be that tire patch glue or tubular rim cement, that
dried out without the metal in the screw cap end ever being
pierced.

Try this sometime. Carry around a 1" length of Teflon tape in your
patch kit (arranged so it will stay flat and won't end up in a
ball). After you open and use the tube, cover the end with the
tape, stretched a little and doubled over (double thickness).

I see that the subject heading and subsequent discussion is too
difficult to follow. If the tube is dried out before it is opened,
Teflon tape cannot regenerate its liquid glue or vulcanizing fluid.

Perhaps the author of the email happens to buy a type of glue which comes
in tubes whose ends are welded not crimped shut, which would explain the
assertion that they recently used a tube from 1994 and found it was still
good.

In that case presumably this Teflon approach would be effective once the
tube is opened.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Mania, February.

Bob said:

Werehatrack said:

Some of the 99-cent-store patch kits are merely glue donors; I've run
across some whose "patches" were useless, made from the wrong material
entirely. Camel, Monkey Grip, Victor and Slime are all brands that
are known to have essentially identical good-quality patches.

I use a 3M rubber cement and a piece of a donor tube for a patch (glue
on both surfaces). Does that make me a bad boy?

Nope. It just means that you might have a made-up patch shear loose
when a regular patch would have held. If your tubes are close to the
size of the tire cavity before they're inflated, this cost-saving
and/or emergency patch method works just fine. If the tube has to
stretch quite a bit, patches like this tend to peel. It'll get you
home most of the time, though, and if you're out of patches and have a
badly futzed tube that can be sacrificed, it's better than walking.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) (Put a little grease on the threads to keep
the lid from getting glued in place, and keep the lid tight.) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I use teflon plumbers tape on things like this--works quite well.

It's also cleaner, but sometimes it shreds, gathers, leaves spots
uncovered and lets the lid get stuck. Grease isn't a perfect stroke
either; I'd say it's a toss-up as to which works better overall.
(I've always got grease handy, but I have to dig in the tool box to
find the tape, so I use grease. I admit it; I'm lazy.)

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

David Damerell said:

Quoting <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I received anonymous email as follows:

Quoted message said:

> believing the users don't put the cap on properly. I can show you
> tube of glue, be that tire patch glue or tubular rim cement, that
> dried out without the metal in the screw cap end ever being
> pierced.
Try this sometime. Carry around a 1" length of Teflon tape in your
patch kit (arranged so it will stay flat and won't end up in a
ball). After you open and use the tube, cover the end with the
tape, stretched a little and doubled over (double thickness).

I see that the subject heading and subsequent discussion is too
difficult to follow. If the tube is dried out before it is opened,
Teflon tape cannot regenerate its liquid glue or vulcanizing fluid.

Perhaps the author of the email happens to buy a type of glue which comes
in tubes whose ends are welded not crimped shut, which would explain the
assertion that they recently used a tube from 1994 and found it was still
good.

In that case presumably this Teflon approach would be effective once the
tube is opened.

The trick is finding that kind of tube to begin with. I haven't seen
any in ages.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.