Using two adjustable cups??

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Er...you have to buy two bottom brackets?

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads. But,
Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless they
are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with an
adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded right
hand fixed cups for this reason.

Why do you ask?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

I use a Phil Wood BB which comes with adjustable retainer rings (cups).
My BB is Italian threaded and I've been using the PW for the last
15,000km. No problems whatsoever. With adjustable cups you can set the
chainlike to the way you like it more easily.

Kenny Lee

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

I use a Phil Wood BB which comes with adjustable retainer rings (cups).
My BB is Italian threaded and I've been using the PW for the last
15,000km. No problems whatsoever. With adjustable cups you can set the
chainlike to the way you like it more easily.

Kenny Lee

Kenny Lee said:

I use a Phil Wood BB which comes with adjustable retainer rings (cups).
My BB is Italian threaded and I've been using the PW for the last
15,000km. No problems whatsoever. With adjustable cups you can set the
chainlike to the way you like it more easily.

The TA Axix BB is the same. I believe they use the Shimano taper these
days.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Using two adjustable cups??
From: [email hidden]
Date: 8/28/2004 10:56 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads. But,
Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless they
are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with an
adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded right
hand fixed cups for this reason.

Why do you ask?

Hi Jobst. I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup (As you
know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is Italian). I am building
up an old French frame and want to use a triple on the front whilst keeping the
"Q" (i.e., distance between the pedals) low. Since I will only use the 24-28T
inner ring as a "bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with
setting the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier with
an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths "in stock"😉 I
don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of Phil Wood rings and a
cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I need in my possession.

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only downside? What
about a thraed lock compound on the BB sheel, cup and lockring?

Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Using two adjustable cups??
From: [email hidden]
Date: 8/28/2004 10:56 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads. But,
Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless they
are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with an
adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded right
hand fixed cups for this reason.

Why do you ask?

Hi Jobst. I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup (As you
know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is Italian). I am building
up an old French frame and want to use a triple on the front whilst keeping the
"Q" (i.e., distance between the pedals) low. Since I will only use the 24-28T
inner ring as a "bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with
setting the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier with
an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths "in stock"😉 I
don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of Phil Wood rings and a
cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I need in my possession.

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only downside? What
about a thraed lock compound on the BB sheel, cup and lockring?

Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Using two adjustable cups??
From: Zog The Undeniable [email hidden]
Date: 8/28/2004 10:48 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <4130a8b4.0@entanet>

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Er...you have to buy two bottom brackets?

I have the parts available (i.e., an extra French threaded adjustable cup), so
that's not a problem.

Richard InNwa said:

...I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup (As you
know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is Italian). I am building
up an old French frame and want to use a triple on the front whilst keeping the
"Q" (i.e., distance between the pedals) low. Since I will only use the 24-28T
inner ring as a "bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with
setting the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier with
an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths "in stock"😉 I
don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of Phil Wood rings and a
cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I need in my possession.

This is a basically sound idea. I've got a similar setup on my "Brown."
The Brown has a Phil Wood BB, Italian threading, so I was able to
adjust the clearance to be very tight.

I even used thinner than normal spacers between the 28 tooth chainring
and the crank, since that is only used with the larger rear sprockets,
and I don't care if it would rub on the small-small combinations.

The idea was to have the 52 & 42 at about the same chainline they would
normally have with a double, but to also have the 28 tooth ring as a
bail out for tough climbs or for when I'm very tired. I hardly ever use
it but it's comforting to know it's there, and it doesn't weigh much.

The thing that may wind up biting you is that you may have trouble
finding a front derailer with enough leftward travel to reliably shift
to the granny.

I'm running an old Sun Tour Cyclone or some such on mine, and it just
barely works.

Quoted message said:

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only downside? What
about a thraed lock compound

Yes, once you figure out the position, it would be good to loctite the
cup.

Quoted message said:

on the BB sheel, cup and lockring?

When you make a peanut butter sandwich, you only need to spread peanut
butter on one of the slices of bread...

Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.org/brown" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| The holy passion of Friendship is of so sweet and steady |
| and loyal and enduring a nature that it will last through |
| a whole lifetime, if not asked to lend money. --Mark Twain |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Using two adjustable cups??
From: Sheldon Brown [email hidden]
Date: 8/28/2004 4:02 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Richard InNwa said:

...I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup (As you
know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is Italian). I am

building

Quoted message said:

up an old French frame and want to use a triple on the front whilst keeping

the

Quoted message said:

"Q" (i.e., distance between the pedals) low. Since I will only use the

24-28T

Quoted message said:

inner ring as a "bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with
setting the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier

with

Quoted message said:

an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths "in stock"😉 I
don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of Phil Wood rings and

a

Quoted message said:

cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I need in my possession.

This is a basically sound idea. I've got a similar setup on my "Brown."
The Brown has a Phil Wood BB, Italian threading, so I was able to
adjust the clearance to be very tight.

I even used thinner than normal spacers between the 28 tooth chainring
and the crank, since that is only used with the larger rear sprockets,
and I don't care if it would rub on the small-small combinations.

The idea was to have the 52 & 42 at about the same chainline they would
normally have with a double, but to also have the 28 tooth ring as a
bail out for tough climbs or for when I'm very tired. I hardly ever use
it but it's comforting to know it's there, and it doesn't weigh much.

Yes, I'm looking for the same set-up on a ~48-38- ~26, with the inner ring as a
bail out. I plan to use an NOS Shimano 600 (6207, IIRC) crank with a Willow
tripilizer.
Thoughts?

Quoted message said:

The thing that may wind up biting you is that you may have trouble
finding a front derailer with enough leftward travel to reliably shift
to the granny.

I have an NOS ca. '91 Shimano DX fd I'm planning on using. I think it should
work. Your thoughts?

Quoted message said:

I'm running an old Sun Tour Cyclone or some such on mine, and it just
barely works.

Quoted message said:

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only downside? What
about a thraed lock compound

Yes, once you figure out the position, it would be good to loctite the
cup.

Quoted message said:

on the BB sheel, cup and lockring?

When you make a peanut butter sandwich, you only need to spread peanut
butter on one of the slices of bread...

Well, yes....I meant " is loctite on both the BB shell and the lockring a good
idea?"

Thanks, Sheldon!

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.org/brown" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| The holy passion of Friendship is of so sweet and steady |
| and loyal and enduring a nature that it will last through |
| a whole lifetime, if not asked to lend money. --Mark Twain |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Not specifically but ensure the right crank can be mounted
without hitting the now-farther-right cup.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads. But,
Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless they
are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with an
adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded right
hand fixed cups for this reason.

Why do you ask?

I believe that sufficient pressure can be applied to the
threads with a normal Var lockring plier to lock an
adjustable Italian or French cup on the right. That assumes
normal undamaged threads and sufficient clearance for the
right crank on the spindle.

Yes, I wonder if the "why" is more interesting.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Richard InNwa said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both
sides) bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline,
which, IMO, is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing
this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads.
But, Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless
they are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with
an adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded
right hand fixed cups for this reason.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you ask?

Quoted message said:

Hi Jobst. I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup
(As you know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is
Italian). I am building up an old French frame and want to use a
triple on the front whilst keeping the "Q" (i.e., distance between
the pedals) low. Since I will only use the 24-28T inner ring as a
"bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with setting
the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier
with an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths
"in stock"😉 I don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of
Phil Wood rings and a cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I
need in my possession.

Well that's as good a reason as I can think of to do this but I would
not expect that to hold on my bicycle where Italian BB's came loose
unless I tightened them until I could smell onions as they say in
other languages (make your eyes water).

Quoted message said:

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only
downside? What about a thread lock compound on the BB shell, cup
and lockring?

Not hard enough. But just the same, to not unload the off side of the
force the thread must have a high preload, something that thread lock
does not offer and why it doesn't work in many applications. That is
why right hand cups with RH thread must be extremely tight.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Richard InNwa said:

Quoted message said:

> Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
> French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both
> sides) bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline,
> which, IMO, is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing
> this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since the left (adjustable) cup is always a right hand thread, only
Italian BB's could do this because they have right hand threads.
But, Right hand cups loosen in use with a right hand threads unless
they are installed "brutally" tight, something you cannot do with
an adjustable cup. Most reasonable BB's use left hand threaded
right hand fixed cups for this reason.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you ask?

Quoted message said:

Hi Jobst. I happen to have an extra French threaded adjustable cup
(As you know,French threading is RH thread on both sides, as is
Italian). I am building up an old French frame and want to use a
triple on the front whilst keeping the "Q" (i.e., distance between
the pedals) low. Since I will only use the 24-28T inner ring as a
"bail out" on the three innermost cogs, I can get away with setting
the inner ring to just clear the RH chainstay. This seems easier
with an adjustable chainline.(I have a variety of spindle lengths
"in stock"😉 I don't want, at this point, to spend the $$ on a set of
Phil Wood rings and a cartridge BB, especially as I have the parts I
need in my possession.

Well that's as good a reason as I can think of to do this but I would
not expect that to hold on my bicycle where Italian BB's came loose
unless I tightened them until I could smell onions as they say in
other languages (make your eyes water).

Quoted message said:

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only
downside? What about a thread lock compound on the BB shell, cup
and lockring?

Not hard enough. But just the same, to not unload the off side of the
force the thread must have a high preload, something that thread lock
does not offer and why it doesn't work in many applications. That is
why right hand cups with RH thread must be extremely tight.

Well, from your comments and those of others, it seems that the RH cup
loosening is the only downside. I guess I'll give it a try and see
what happens. Worst case is I put the fixed cup in and tighten the
bugger 'til my eyes tear up. 🙂 Thanks for your help!

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Not specifically but ensure the right crank can be mounted
without hitting the now-farther-right cup.

Hi Andrew. I didn't anticipate that as a problem. Am I missing something?

Richard InNwa said:

Quoted message said:

Well that's as good a reason as I can think of to do this but I
would not expect that to hold on my bicycle where Italian BB's came
loose unless I tightened them until I could smell onions as they
say in other languages (make your eyes water).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only
downside? What about a thread lock compound on the BB shell, cup
and lockring?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not hard enough. But just the same, to not unload the off side of
the force the thread must have a high preload, something that
thread lock does not offer and why it doesn't work in many
applications. That is why right hand cups with RH thread must be
extremely tight.

Quoted message said:

Well, from your comments and those of others, it seems that the RH
cup loosening is the only downside. I guess I'll give it a try and
see what happens. Worst case is I put the fixed cup in and tighten
the bugger 'til my eyes tear up. 🙂 Thanks for your help!

I don't know how much you want to move to the right, but in the past
people have used a single suitably thick flat washer, specifically
made to move the chainline to the right. I think they came in 1mm
increments to about 3mm. That way the cup can be made as tight as it
needs to be.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Using two adjustable cups??
From: [email hidden]
Date: 8/29/2004 8:01 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Richard InNwa said:

Quoted message said:

Well that's as good a reason as I can think of to do this but I
would not expect that to hold on my bicycle where Italian BB's came
loose unless I tightened them until I could smell onions as they
say in other languages (make your eyes water).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only
> downside? What about a thread lock compound on the BB shell, cup
> and lockring?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not hard enough. But just the same, to not unload the off side of
the force the thread must have a high preload, something that
thread lock does not offer and why it doesn't work in many
applications. That is why right hand cups with RH thread must be
extremely tight.

Quoted message said:

Well, from your comments and those of others, it seems that the RH
cup loosening is the only downside. I guess I'll give it a try and
see what happens. Worst case is I put the fixed cup in and tighten
the bugger 'til my eyes tear up. 🙂 Thanks for your help!

I don't know how much you want to move to the right, but in the past
people have used a single suitably thick flat washer, specifically
made to move the chainline to the right. I think they came in 1mm
increments to about 3mm. That way the cup can be made as tight as it
needs to be.

My goal is to use the shortest spindle within reason whilst having the inner
(on a triple) chainring just clear the chainstay. Do you think using spacers
under the fixed cup is a better way to do this?

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Richard InNwa said:

Is there any downside to using adjustable cups on both sides of a
French or Italian threaded (i.e., right hand threads on both sides)
bottom bracket? This would give an adjustable chainline, which, IMO,
is a benefit, but are there disadvantages to doing this?

Quoted message said:

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Not specifically but ensure the right crank can be mounted
without hitting the now-farther-right cup.

Richard InNwa said:

I didn't anticipate that as a problem. Am I missing something?

Only if the right side crank hits the cup. The cup you
removed probably afforded more clearance.

I'm with Jobst - why are you doing this? It seems pointless.

But if you're determined, just do it and see if there's
room or not - what would that take? A half hour maybe?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Richard InNwa said:

Quoted message said:

Well that's as good a reason as I can think of to do this but I
would not expect that to hold on my bicycle where Italian BB's came
loose unless I tightened them until I could smell onions as they
say in other languages (make your eyes water).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So, you see the RH cup chronically loosening up as the only
> downside? What about a thread lock compound on the BB shell, cup
> and lockring?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not hard enough. But just the same, to not unload the off side of
the force the thread must have a high preload, something that
thread lock does not offer and why it doesn't work in many
applications. That is why right hand cups with RH thread must be
extremely tight.

Quoted message said:

Well, from your comments and those of others, it seems that the RH
cup loosening is the only downside. I guess I'll give it a try and
see what happens. Worst case is I put the fixed cup in and tighten
the bugger 'til my eyes tear up. 🙂 Thanks for your help!

I don't know how much you want to move to the right, but in the past
people have used a single suitably thick flat washer, specifically
made to move the chainline to the right. I think they came in 1mm
increments to about 3mm. That way the cup can be made as tight as it
needs to be.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Richard and Jobst,

BikeToolsEtc has "freewheel and bottom bracket spacers in 1,
1.5, and 2 mm thicknesses in bags of 20 for $10:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=655829625873&d=single&c=Repair%20Parts&sc=Freehubs%20and%20Freewheels&tc=Spacers&item_id=BR-FWS1

The local bike shop might even have single ones.

Carl Fogel