Vortex ram

Gaby De Wilde said:

Carl Fogel said:

And you can make a traveling windmill move into the wind on a track in
the same fashion, with enough wind and enough gearing between the
wind-driven propeller and the cogs driving the machine along the
track.

We can discuss it can we not? We can share our thoughts and patch our
errors.

Carl has plenty of things to keep him busy other than trying to
disabuse a willfully deluded person of his notions.

Quoted message said:

Cousteau's Calypso could propel it self up wind. Doug also said it has
been done already even with the gearing.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Calypso_II.png

According to what I've read, Flettner boats can tack at less than 30
degrees from the wind, because their rotors generate a net force
vectored at 90 degrees to the direction of airflow. That's
interesting, but it's not traveling directly upwind. Only from you
have I seen a suggestion that they could travel directly upwind. And
if you'll forgive me this judgment, you have been sipping from some
tainted sources of information.

Note also that turning a rotor to generate an aerodynamic force isn't
something you get for free, any more than turning a wheel to generate
a reaction force against the road is something you get for free.
Force times distance equals work. Flettner boats use more power to
turn their rotors than they would to get the same performance with a
conventional screw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_ship

I'll guess that if a Flettner boat has been shown to travel directly
upwind, that such movement would have been made possible by water
currents in a direction different from that of the wind.

Quoted message said:

going faster as the wind directly down the wind is also possible.

http://www.ayrs.org/DWFTTW_from_Catalyst_N23_Jan_2006.pdf

Going downwind faster than the wind is, by definition, going upwind
(along with higher surface friction/rolling losses than if you were
simply traveling into the wind as it blows relative to the ground).
All the wishful thinking in the world does not change that, and I'll
believe it no sooner than I see it.

Quoted message said:

We know insects use vortexi for flight.

<...>

Quoted message said:

Insects would be using that what works best.

If what you are suggesting worked best, insects would not have to flap
their wings nearly as much as they do. You should tell them they've
got it all wrong.

Chalo

a "negative drag" -to suit your search-occurs when an EQ wave passes
thru your location: a paranormal doppler effect.
ebergy from the surrounding atmosphereic voltage can be feed into the
"vortex" producing enhanced effects-like spooks, murphies law, heat
lightning...

winter

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

winter

You forgot the "h": <http://www.a-winther.com/pages/products.php>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

OK where does the effect suck energy from? unless you have a Mormon or
Ohio xemption, you must identify where the device get's its energy. I
mean like if the universe has to do it then you gotta do it.
Qouting Pioters, France has no grip

datakoll said:

OK where does the effect suck energy from? unless you have a Mormon or
Ohio xemption, you must identify where the device get's its energy.

Mine would be the adventures exemption ^__^

To me Energy sounds like figuring out how much God there is in the
device. Energy is such a weird term. It doesn't really exist jet, it's
the potential for something else to happen. ehm lol? I do know what
you mean tho.

The energy to be used for propulsion is coming from the drag. Drag
represents a constant loss of energy to the open system. Every percent
of work we can extract from this will be pure gain. Initially the
change in aerodynamic profile will obviously make it worse then a
smooth vehicle. But the moment we manage to re-use the drag that was
already created performance should skyrocket. (at least in practice)

I would love to take all credit for this as the first person who
thought of sailing or negative resistance but I'm afraid that would be
rather unrealistic. We are provided with numerous clues how to build
this device. Rather then try shoot them down one by one I try to list
them and look for patterns in the documentation. For example Victor
Schauberger created more as one astonishing device for [censored]. Those
disappeared to the USSR, the US (they apparently disappear into thin
air also)

" Early Heinkel "T" (Taifun/Typhoon) flying cigar design study for
possible use with Schauberger Repulsin vortex motor. "

http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Viktor%20Schauberger.htm

"Note lack of detail of engine except for 'turbine" description. No
prop engine nor centrifugal/axial-flow turbojet either... just a
gaping inlet, ring turbine and fuselage-wide open shaft to exhaust
port."

Just like everyone else I can dismiss this very easily, all I have to
do is wave my hand and say PUH. The usual behaviour of the clueless. I
see a clear an obvious clue provided here.

I'm not claiming I could reverse engineer it. But I will claim
ignoring things will never be a useful activity.

Victor is dead, he doesn't owe you any explanation where the energy is
coming from. Neither do you owe me anything of this sort.

But it would be exiting if we could manage to figure it out.

Here is the Paris Hilton news in case you think I'm wasting my time.

http://news.google.com/news?q=paris+hilton

The latest headlines on World of war craft perhaps?

http://news.google.com/news?q=world+of+warcraft

How exiting!

Quoted message said:

How exiting!

I'm late. it's 6:55. I has a potato buring in the microwave.

Ok. I haven't read the whole thing but whatever your purpose.
The device, any device, generates heat from friction. So, as you
develop the idea in fiction writing, recovering heat loss or better
than generating heat loss takes the writing to a place of escape.
Escape is a good start there. I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on my SF
so....
You are GD Wilde and off course I am also 'GD Wilde' so you, the
poseur ? are suspect. In fact under the current conditions you are
decidedly stinky.
But as I am the real thing, I'll let you in on some reality.
If you're not suspect then let me ask you what you thought of my first
reply?
When I began writing bicycle, The Skeptic showed in RBT and began a
loooong whoha about this and that. He went away. He doesn't annoy me
as I have a International AAA psychic rating and I'm one of the good
guys.
I have a two page resume!
Including trying to save the country several times and the planet, the
planet with a free energy device, a collector energy trap for the 40
microvolts/meter''' I am what is called a "ground" and I'm
telekinetic.
I have demonstrated the effects and NASA investigated. I'm living at
Cape Canaveral to devote a year's time to collector and national
security within the NASA intelligence sphere-like a large university
effect.
I can use the effect to produce rain. I asked a main researcher in
that area if he was interested: never heard from him.
There's a lot going on here. Ever see "THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH"?
The Mafia hired women, the psychics you see advertsing, to read my
mind and scream at me thru ship's hailer mounted on pickup trucks and
vans, one now in my backyard- everytime I think.
24/7/365 for 14 years. The FBI, Florida Sheriff's, FDLE, NASA all
support the continuous attack.
So far, the attack cost the mob close to one million dollars.
The mob controls and directs the USAF and National Guard fighters to
strafe me while I'm running an experiment. The mob collects and
orders 7-8 fishing boats to stand off shore where I'm remotely camped
so I cannot develop the idea: the boats blow horns together when I try
to think in terms of a collector.
Here at Cape Canaveral, the local sheriff allows the mob to broadcast
CONTINUOUS screaming threats at 140-160 db thru my backyard from 10PM
to 6AM, against county ordinance. Many of my neighbors in a gated
beach community work at KSC. They support the mob as does most of the
local population. NASA workers support the mob. You know, the mob that
poisons NASA's children with narcotics and meth. Many NASA workers are
the mob. Certainly the Sheriff's are the mob.
None of these people are interested in energy collection or national
security. Yet if they thought, an interesting idea, I had a grip on
the device, stealing it would be a priority. I do have a grip on it.
The idea of it doesn't fit into their reality, sniffing tourist's
[censored] to see if the tourists will give them money. Several NASA
people in the area have wives and daughters who work as prostitutes.
All prostitutes will courier drugs for the mob or else it's the bus
stop.
These people actually suppport serial killers, drug pushers and child
rapists as mutual travelers on life's highway.
The FBI and Federal government support the mob. Worthless. I could be
in East Germany, 1960.
NASCAR announcing, NPR, all Orlando FM and TV- when I listen they
attack me. For example, a soap opera going on in the wall TV while I'm
at the Laundromat gets totally overdubbed with dialogue attacking me.
NPR works with mob mind readers who direct attacks on me, Sirius
satellite radio - jerk named Dave -same deal. All connected to media
music distribution.
That's a possible reality when the work is more than a fiberglass
toilet seat on a van roof.

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
:
: > How exiting!

Wow! Was it Elvis who left the building?

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

Quoted message said:

How exiting!

I'm late. it's 6:55. I has a potato buring in the microwave.

Use a flat file followed by emery cloth to remove the burrs from your
potato.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

datakoll said:

If you're not suspect then let me ask you what you thought of my first
reply?

hello datakoll,

Your previous reply was better.

You asked where the energy comes from.

I explain it comes from the propulsion.

the engine spins => wheels turn => air is compressed => vehicle moves
forward

=> ****pressure is released****

So the energy comes from the scalar quality.

It's not more complicated as that, if you could explain what you
understand of it I can refine my explanation. The topic is to gather
links and thoughts towards this goal. I'm sure the creation of some
decent documentation would make it easier for those with the tools and
brains to implement it.

That's what I think about it.

We think we are pedaling the bike to move the bike. But we are
actually moving the air in the opposite direction. This moving air
suffers drag just like the bicycle. Eventually the motion ends in
small vortexi. It would make sense to engineer the right kind of
vortex.

But one bit of air moves another bit of air and that has to move
another bit again, this harmonica chain reaction is taking all the
energy we are pedalling into the machine.

Please advance the thought and/or correct me where I'm wrong.

Thanks,

___
http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/vortex-ram
gabydewilde - vortex ram

Quoted message said:

But one bit of air moves another bit of air and that has to move
another bit again, this harmonica chain reaction is taking all the
energy we are pedalling into the machine.

Please advance the thought and/or correct me where I'm wrong.

Harmonica Chain Reaction:

Quoted message said:

Thanks,

___
http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/vortex-ram
gabydewilde - vortex ram

Quoted message said:

datakoll said:

If you're not suspect then let me ask you what you thought of my first
reply?

Quoted message said:

Your previous reply was better.

You asked where the energy comes from.

I explain it comes from the propulsion.

the engine spins => wheels turn => air is compressed => vehicle moves
forward

=> ****pressure is released****

So the energy comes from the scalar quality.

It's not more complicated as that, if you could explain what you
understand of it I can refine my explanation. The topic is to gather
links and thoughts towards this goal. I'm sure the creation of some
decent documentation would make it easier for those with the tools and
brains to implement it.

That's what I think about it.

We think we are pedaling the bike to move the bike. But we are
actually moving the air in the opposite direction. This moving air
suffers drag just like the bicycle. Eventually the motion ends in
small vortexi. It would make sense to engineer the right kind of
vortex.

But one bit of air moves another bit of air and that has to move
another bit again, this harmonica chain reaction is taking all the
energy we are pedalling into the machine.

Please advance the thought and/or correct me where I'm wrong.

Let's start with the word 'vortices'
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

..0028 parsecs off AVAGADRO, a red dwarf in the BLUE RHINO galaxy, lies
a oddular tube worm structure of both zero gravity and below Kelvin.
At 008973 GMT, THE COMMISSION placed the following structure into the
OTW. Generation of Z Waves will begin thricely.

DVBORKNAG!

datakoll said:

.0028 parsecs off AVAGADRO, a red dwarf in the BLUE RHINO galaxy, lies
a oddular tube worm structure of both zero gravity and below Kelvin.
At 008973 GMT, THE COMMISSION placed the following structure into the
OTW. Generation of Z Waves will begin thricely.

DVBORKNAG!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I went on to other computer tasks after writing the novella's opening
paragraph.

I heard then thought, "HOLY DUNG BEETLE, the laptop's blown a chip."
Very softly I could hear: zip zip zip zing zing zerk zerk zerk zack
zack...

That was the clock mechanism sound track running under the top and
current page.
Harharharharharharhar

Lately, the laptop's software is organizing tabs experimentally.
OFF course, an identifying characteristic for OTW Z Waves

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

.0028 parsecs off AVAGADRO, a red dwarf...

It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere...

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Maximust said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/vortex-ram
gabydewilde - vortex ram

Non-information = dis info

_____________
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/factuurexpress

A Muzi said:

Let's start with the word 'vortices'

The Vorticity wikipedia page may be of interest to readers who have
that.

"One way to visualize vorticity is this: consider a fluid flowing.
Imagine that some tiny part of the fluid is instantaneously rendered
solid, and the rest of the flow removed. If that tiny new solid
particle would be rotating, rather than just translating, then there
is vorticity in the flow."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorticity

"The vorticity equation describes the evolution of the vorticity (\vec
\omega) of a fluid element as it moves around. The vorticity equation
can be derived from the conservation of momentum equation.[1] In its
general vector form it may be expressed as follows,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorticity_transport_equation

____
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/factuurexpress

Chalo said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Chalo,

Quoted message said:

The animation shows pulsing, which makes things look faintly
plausible.

Quoted message said:

But if you draw a continuous line to show the path of a steady
airstream, you'll see that the airstream crosses itself.

But that assumption, and the animation, are not necessarily indicative
of how the system might work.

Yes, you are awfully right here. The illustration is just for
illustration. The actual ram would look much more like Mr Patterson's
vortex implosion ram and of course the poorly documented many
creations of Victor Schauberger.

http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Viktor%20Schauberger.htm
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/events/conferences/2004/teslatech_SLC/RobertPatterson/RamImplosionWing.htm

Patterson says a rough surface is mandatory. I'm beginning to think it
should even have bumps on it...

"Wind tunnel tests of scale-model humpback whale flippers have
revealed that the scalloped, bumpy flipper is a more efficient wing
design than is currently used by the aeronautics industry on
airplanes. The tests show that bump-ridged flippers do not stall as
quickly and produce more lift and less drag than comparably sized
sleek flippers. "
http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/index.php?story=156

I've made a page with links here
http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/vortex-ram-suggested-reading

I should have updated everything, sorry about that.

______
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/factuurexpress

the idea creates more drag and more drag and more drag
without creating energy
the idea doesn't create energy, it creates drag-friction-heat-energy
loss.
the energy must come from somewhere if only creative writing, not
quotable obfuscations.

WINTER HAS US IN ITS GRIP...

sure, "creates lift," stick it in your Word proceesor and search.
creates lift: 30 mph down and 75 mph forward
positive thinking?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/sports/othersports/10flying.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin