Walking Alone.....

In article <[email hidden]>, Bootlaces
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

IMO the case for carrying a mobie is for the individual's personal
opinion. No one can or should be condemned for not carrying one.

Obviously it is a matter of personal preference to carry a phone, like
GPS. is a matter of personal choice.

It would be difficult to call for help for onesself or someone else when
in the back of beyond without a phone - always assumng a signal is
available.

It might prove to be too late then to consider the wisdom of not having
a phone handy.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I don't think it will be long until we see the headline on some tabloid,
"Idiot walkers rescued had ventured into the hills with neither a GPS or a
mobile phone!!"

How many disorientated (lost) walkers have the MRT "talked" off the hill
with minimum fuss because the lost persons had a phone handy?

I know this happens from time to time.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

It depends on the risk .. if having one reduces by 1% the chance of
getting you (or someone else) avoidably killed, then I think it's stupid
not to take one.

But if the risk is basically bugger all to start with then there simply
isn't much point in reducing it by 1%, and this is regularly applied by
most people over a variety of risk areas.

To illustrate that, taking the train will improve your chance of
arriving alive at your destination by a finite and tangible quantity,
but more people drive because it's more convenient. If you /really/
think what you wrote above, do I take it you always take the train over
a car when it's a viable option? And if not, why not?

Quoted message said:

Yes, what people carry is up to them, but I reserve the right to say
it's pretty stupid to be in some places at some times without certain
items.

Things like a rope while abseiling, certainly. Stuff like a mobile
'phone while out on a typical UK recreational walk, nah...

Quoted message said:

groups, never mind solo walkers. Sure you can do without one .. people
did for years. Some died as a result.

Bit like driving rather than taking a train, then...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:30:40 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| It would be difficult to call for help for onesself or someone else when
| in the back of beyond without a phone - always assumng a signal is
| available.

IME the signal is available *UPHILL* on the tops :-( never where you
want/need to go.

--
Dave F

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:18:28 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> writes
| >No one should ever get separated from the group, if the group is properly
| >organized. Each group should have a leader who leads at the pace of the
| >slowest member, and stops the group regularly to allow the slowest to catch
| >up and have a rest. Also a whipper in, who should be the second strongest
| >walker and able to lead a sub group to safety, (usually my job). Is this
| >what happens on urw Expeditions?
|
| No chance!

Which is why I must get a map, the old 1 inch to the mile ones are long
gone :-(

--
Dave F

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:01:48 +0100, Gordon Harris
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| What are the statistics for missing walkers being found dead?
| Almost all the ones I remember hearing of were alone, or were separated
| from a party.

No one should ever get separated from the group, if the group is properly
organized. Each group should have a leader who leads at the pace of the
slowest member, and stops the group regularly to allow the slowest to catch
up and have a rest. Also a whipper in, who should be the second strongest
walker and able to lead a sub group to safety, (usually my job). Is this
what happens on urw Expeditions?

No. But we tend to experienced walkers who usually walk alone. We'd
better not mention Expedition 2...
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

W. D. Grey said:

I would have expected something wiser from one so well respected on this
NG. Come on Peter let common sense prevail.

If it's "common sense" to not go out without a moby then it will be
commonly taken. I'm not going to accept I should be chastised for
leaving mine behind though: I do far more risky things than going for a
walk, so to criticise me for not reducing an already very low risk
strikes me as just paranoia and/or a misapprehension or two about risk
management.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gordon Harris said:

I'd lose the cherry cake and take the phone.

I'll take the cake, which will actively help me on the hill by providing
useful fuel to help me do what's needed to get off it under my own power.

Quoted message said:

I can't see the point of owning a mobile phone if you don't have it with
you.

Mine generally goes in the car, the roads being a much riskier
environment than the hills, and where the risk of the car breaking down
is much greater than me breaking down on a walk also much greater.

Quoted message said:

My daughter's mobile phone is usually the only way I can be sure of
contacting her, and hers is almost always on. It's a comfort blanket
for me, not that I ever chew on it.....

If it comforts you, by all means take it. Mine is just something I
don't really like much and hardly ever use, so I'm not comforted by it.
I'm more comforted by cakes: Mileage varies.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

If there
is only a 0.01% chance of saving a life, possibly yours, why wouldn't
you carry one - are you really that anti-social?

Another back reference to taking trains rather than driving in order to
lower risk. You#re so sure any risk reduction /must/ be worthwhile, you
must always take the train when you can? Or just find an excuse to stay
at home? Risk reduction wherever it can be done is often, despite
"common sense" dictating otherwise, *not* the bottom line.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Dave Fawthrop said:

Mobile improves the experience because I can tell June where I *am*

On a typical walk, I can tell Roos where I am by just saying "I'm here".
This assumes it's either dark, she's looking in another direction, or
doesn't have her contacts in for some reason...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:27:52 +0100, Simon Challands
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I didn't advocate anything, just moaned against something I definitely
didn't advocate, because I don't view fellwalking as sensibly risky unless
you're the type of cretin who'll do something really stupid then expect
others to bail you out. And that, to me, sums up life in general, not just
walking, which inherently isn't risky if you're not stupid.

How about accidents?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

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But at a slight tangent to the main drift of the conversation. Has
anyone regularly checked to see if they can get a signal on their
mobile. Sure you will get one on most summits, but in my experience they
are still bloody useless when you are lower down and in the 'shadow' of
any other mountain. This being particularly true in the NW highlands. No
doubt some phone companies are better than others. Currently I am with
Virgin which seems to be less use than an ashtray on a motorbike.

--
Len Trim
[email hidden]

Dave Fawthrop said:

No one should ever get separated from the group, if the group is properly
organized.

Quite a big "if" IME.

Quoted message said:

Each group should have a leader who leads at the pace of the
slowest member

Many groups are just aggregations, so don't have leaders. Most of the
walks I do in company are like this, substituting a reasonable degree of
mutual cluefullness for a rigidly defined hierarchy. I like being out
on the hill for a degree of self expression, not to fit in with someone
else's idea of how I should go about it.

The hills are there and are open and available to me to use as I see
fit. If I get it wrong that's my problem, and I have enough experience
to decide what I need based on that experience rather than a defined
list of what I /must/ have. That experience was originally informed by
suggestions of what I ought to take, but where I've found it not to
apply I'm not a slave to it. I've gone through the phase of tutting at
people not wearing boots but I've got over it. Gear advice should be a
recommendation based by reasons(s), not an obligation.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:20:49 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Or just find an excuse to stay
| at home?

Sitting at home watching the tele, and being totally unfit, is in the
longer term a risky strategy. **NOTHING** is risk free.

--
Dave F

"Bootlaces" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:34:27 +0100
in <news:[email hidden]>
"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

To say it's a mistake, period, not to carry one is, IMHO, pretty
preposterous. What people carry or don't is up to them.

I would have expected something wiser from one so well respected on this
NG. Come on Peter let common sense prevail.

I'm with Mr. PC.

Anyway - Mobies are not FA kit.

Maps are a waist of time also. Go west and you'll meet water. Go north, east
or south. Likewise. After all, the UK *is* an island. You can't get lost.

;-)

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:10:18 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Gordon Harris wrote:
|
| > I'd lose the cherry cake and take the phone.
|
| I'll take the cake, which will actively help me on the hill by providing
| useful fuel to help me do what's needed to get off it under my own power.

Just found a nice form of fuel when on the hills.
Mixed dried fruit, which I get from Lidl, its Best Before date some months
away. IMO better than Mint Cake because it spreads the sugar hit out over
longer period and does not taste as sickly sweet/minty. It also counts
towards your 5 fruit or veg per day.

--
Dave F

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

W. D. Grey said:

I would have expected something wiser from one so well respected on
this NG. Come on Peter let common sense prevail.

If it's "common sense" to not go out without a moby then it will be
commonly taken. I'm not going to accept I should be chastised for
leaving mine behind though: I do far more risky things than going for a
walk, so to criticise me for not reducing an already very low risk
strikes me as just paranoia and/or a misapprehension or two about risk
management.

Pete.

There's none so deaf as ddoesn't want to hear1
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:33:56 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| > No one should ever get separated from the group, if the group is properly
| > organized.
|
| Quite a big "if" IME.
|
| > Each group should have a leader who leads at the pace of the
| > slowest member
|
| Many groups are just aggregations, so don't have leaders.

I was thinking more of organized school parties and the like with many
inexperienced members.

--
Dave F

Dave Fawthrop said:

Sitting at home watching the tele, and being totally unfit, is in the
longer term a risky strategy. **NOTHING** is risk free.

I didn't say anything about not doing any exercise though, did I? You
could be using a treadmill or exercise bike to stay fit and still not
expose yourself to the risks of the drive or subsequent walk outside
away from easy medical help.

You're right that nothing is totally risk free, but it's also the case
that a lot of things are sufficiently risk free that it isn't worth
obsessing over cutting the risk smaller than it already is.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Dave Fawthrop said:

Mixed dried fruit, which I get from Lidl, its Best Before date some months
away. IMO better than Mint Cake because it spreads the sugar hit out over
longer period and does not taste as sickly sweet/minty.

Or: "better than Kendal Mint Cake because it's edible" ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/