When cyclists squat...

antoineg said:

I don't even think that the only reason one would do exercises with weights is to increase force.

I think you have an idea of brutes swaggering around the gym, oiling up and posing, trying their best at 1RM max squats or bench presses as the veins on their foreheads pop out.

Thats not my idea of a gymnassium, the gym near me focuses mainly on fitness training, with rowers, steppers, treadmills, bikes plus free weights and other machines.

Nope, no bangs on the head yet. Having said that, when I studied in Russia around 1992, I did see one poor guy try to squat an uneven bar (four 20 kg disks one side, three on the other). He didn't notice someone had removed a disk while he was resting so the bar see-sawed, weights flying all over the place. One just missed me.
I think the point about someone like Mayo is the only valid experiment that could be done regardless. If his performance improved, there's something in it. If not, I guess we would have to re-evaluate our tactics.

ric_stern/RST said:

just because many people might do something, doesn't mean it's correct. until fairly recently power meters weren't readily available. however, now that they are people who do endurance cycle racing (e.g., TT, RR, MTB XC, Track endurance, etc) can see how useless weights would be to increase performance. previously (i.e., pre power meters), where fatigue may have set in temporarily, e.g., when climbing, people can/could easily confuse the feelings of fatigue and changes in intracellular pH with a lack of strength. Clearly, this isn't the case and is easily proved by either training, or altering haematological parameters.

Except in some instances, cyclists are not limited by strength and don't need to do weight training to increase cycle performance.

we know that you don't!

this is totally unlikely to happen, no elite pro is likely to start some intervention that according to the majority of the available research and first principles isn't going to help.

additionally, we know that Mayo can generate enough power to win (e.g., Ventoux TT @ Dauphine Libere).

But it isn't, as clearly we know that doing weights isn't as good at improving ECP as cycling itself. Several of us have explained this to you over and over, have you dropped a weight on your head!!? 😉 😄

ric

Don't forget the gorgeous women in leotards. An asset to any gym.

closesupport said:

Thats not my idea of a gymnassium, the gym near me focuses mainly on fitness training, with rowers, steppers, treadmills, bikes plus free weights and other machines.

Carrera said:

Don't forget the gorgeous women in leotards. An asset to any gym.

A distraction to any gym more like. i have to try and train in baggy tracksuits just incase any embarrassing moments aRISE 😄

Women should know there place.........😠

its hard to squat with 8"'s of manhood poking into your stomache.

Once I was doing leg-extensions on a machine and a gorgeous female bent down inches from me to do some bent over dumbell raises. She had a gorgeous, shapely butt as well. I had problems concentrating to be frank.
Used to work out in Navarra, very close to Indurain's home town. In Spain, the girls really seem to show off their athletic bodies in the gym before they go into the aerobics room.
Oh well, I promise everyone not to lower the tone of this thread any more.

closesupport said:

A distraction to any gym more like. i have to try and train in baggy tracksuits just incase any embarrassing moments aRISE 😄

Women should know there place.........😠

Carrera said:

Once I was doing leg-extensions on a machine and a gorgeous female bent down inches from me to do some bent over dumbell raises. She had a gorgeous, shapely butt as well. I had problems concentrating to be frank.
Used to work out in Navarra, very close to Indurain's home town. In Spain, the girls really seem to show off their athletic bodies in the gym before they go into the aerobics room.
Oh well, I promise everyone not to lower the tone of this thread any more.

and you decided to stay on the leg extension machine drooling no doubt, waiting for the situation to cool down a little. i've seen people like you, you don't go to train do you.... TuT TUT Tut!

i know what i would have said, come here lassy, thats downright naughty wearing clothing like that, come here you deserve a good spanking, and you need to be taught this very lesson right here right now, come on over my knee get those shorts down... i'll show you.

Can yahh feel it, can yahh, can yah! ahhh ahha haaaaa can yah! *whipes brow, that'll teach you*

Ric,

I have an off-the-wall question for you...What brand of helmet do you wear?

It must take an awful lot of punishment, as surely your continued attempts at teaching the unteachable must lead to much bashing your head against the wall. 😄

If your helmet can take that kind of punishment, I want one.

Seriously though, keep teaching, I'll keep learning.

riversm said:

Ric,

I have an off-the-wall question for you...What brand of helmet do you wear?

It must take an awful lot of punishment, as surely your continued attempts at teaching the unteachable must lead to much bashing your head against the wall. 😄

If your helmet can take that kind of punishment, I want one.

Seriously though, keep teaching, I'll keep learning.

It's one of the Specialized range and matches my E5 and RST team kit!

ric_stern/RST said:

It's one of the Specialized range and matches my E5 and RST team kit!

my helmet, is one of those fancy calcium ones with a hairy coating, with stands impact quite well, since i have have somewhat mastered the art of falling. i don't wear one, well only when i'm on the track cause i have to and i can't go on without one, "yes. this helmet has had a few bangs"

closesupport said:

my helmet, is one of those fancy calcium ones with a hairy coating, with stands impact quite well, since i have have somewhat mastered the art of falling. i don't wear one, well only when i'm on the track cause i have to and i can't go on without one, "yes. this helmet has had a few bangs"

here is a cracking site, help you understand your training, how to target certain areas and which exercise work best for which muscles..

exrx.netDirectory.htmlOpen ↗

closesupport said:

my helmet, is one of those fancy calcium ones with a hairy coating, with stands impact quite well, since i have have somewhat mastered the art of falling. i don't wear one, well only when i'm on the track cause i have to and i can't go on without one, "yes. this helmet has had a few bangs"

No surprises there.

These days I've taken a more favourable view of Smith Machine squats. Most alleged experts say Smith Machine Squats (SMS's) are bad for the knees since they push the knees forward somewhat. I don't agree. I think you can fix the angle of your descent and ascent - a factor that makes SMS's a possible valid exercise for knee-injuries.
Smith machines vary. The worst ones tend to automatically hook up during reps so your entire set is ruined (the bracket catches). The only way round that is to chalk your hands and try and make a conscious effort to push the bar out of position during reps. However, some smith machines are pretty good and you can definitely angle your knees to suit squatting style.
Another very old exercise (seldon done) is the barbell hacksquat. You grip the bar behind your thighs with both hands, keep the back straight and then squat three quarters down. It basically builds the quads a little but not the hams.
I would rate the following:
(1) Barbell squat +++++
(2) Smith Machine ++++
(3) Front Squat +++
(4) Leg Presses ++
(5) Hacks +

Carrera said:

These days I've taken a more favourable view of Smith Machine squats. Most alleged experts say Smith Machine Squats (SMS's) are bad for the knees since they push the knees forward somewhat. I don't agree. I think you can fix the angle of your descent and ascent - a factor that makes SMS's a possible valid exercise for knee-injuries.
Smith machines vary. The worst ones tend to automatically hook up during reps so your entire set is ruined (the bracket catches). The only way round that is to chalk your hands and try and make a conscious effort to push the bar out of position during reps. However, some smith machines are pretty good and you can definitely angle your knees to suit squatting style.
Another very old exercise (seldon done) is the barbell hacksquat. You grip the bar behind your thighs with both hands, keep the back straight and then squat three quarters down. It basically builds the quads a little but not the hams.
I would rate the following:
(1) Barbell squat +++++
(2) Smith Machine ++++
(3) Front Squat +++
(4) Leg Presses ++
(5) Hacks +

I don't like smiths machines, for any exercise. they feel to restricting. However, whenever i have ever squated i have always used a angled board for under my heels.

closesupport said:

I don't like smiths machines, for any exercise. they feel to restricting. However, whenever i have ever squated i have always used a angled board for under my heels.

I'm going to start a new thread on this issue: that is exercises that really do help cyclists. Any one get lower back pain after hours in the saddle ? This could very well be because of the way you (we) stabilize our hips. Our hip flexors and quads are so strong they take over the job the glute-mead should be doing and in so doing, place a twisting stress on the lumber vertebrae.

so squat, maybe, better still, do partial squats on one leg and put a good morning movement in, so your chest will go from vertical to on your supporting leg or almost on your supporting leg. Start with one set of 10 to 20 and gradually build to 5 minutes worth on each leg. if you are doing them right you will feel the effect on the outside of your glutes,

.....and you guys need to stretch out those leg and hip muscles after training !

edd said:

I'm going to start a new thread on this issue: that is exercises that really do help cyclists. Any one get lower back pain after hours in the saddle ? This could very well be because of the way you (we) stabilize our hips. Our hip flexors and quads are so strong they take over the job the glute-mead should be doing and in so doing, place a twisting stress on the lumber vertebrae.

so squat, maybe, better still, do partial squats on one leg and put a good morning movement in, so your chest will go from vertical to on your supporting leg or almost on your supporting leg. Start with one set of 10 to 20 and gradually build to 5 minutes worth on each leg. if you are doing them right you will feel the effect on the outside of your glutes,

.....and you guys need to stretch out those leg and hip muscles after training !

I like to for my lower back, i don't remember what they are called but we used to do them in training , kneel up on all fours, elbows on the ground and palms face down on the floor.

Slowly lift one arm off the floor palm facing down and straighten the arm out front, whilst doing this with the opposite leg rase the knee, straighten the leg out toes pointed, this should be done at the same time as the arm, then hold balance for account of 10, return to all fours then repeat, both sides.

Also, why your on all fours, palms down try to keep your leg at 90% degrees and kick up to the ceiling, this is brill for glutes.

then if you wanted you could roll over onto your back, situp, lean back a little, straighten both legs out infront and raise both feet above the floor then comense lifting one leg higher than the other back to the same hight then the same again with the other, i know this is called chopping and is excellent exercise for the hips..
then when you have done you can instanly just move stright into a cat stretch.

anyway here are is a dictionary of muscle groups, and a number of exercises for that specific muscle group.

exrx.netDirectory.htmlOpen ↗

edd said:

I'm going to start a new thread on this issue: that is exercises that really do help cyclists. Any one get lower back pain after hours in the saddle ? This could very well be because of the way you (we) stabilize our hips. Our hip flexors and quads are so strong they take over the job the glute-mead should be doing and in so doing, place a twisting stress on the lumber vertebrae.

so squat, maybe, better still, do partial squats on one leg and put a good morning movement in, so your chest will go from vertical to on your supporting leg or almost on your supporting leg. Start with one set of 10 to 20 and gradually build to 5 minutes worth on each leg. if you are doing them right you will feel the effect on the outside of your glutes,

.....and you guys need to stretch out those leg and hip muscles after training !

This is a subject which we can go on debating until the end of time and it is also very personalised. Despite what 'personal trainers' say, different exercises do suit different people depending on their own individual biomechanics. It is interesting what you are saying - my background is powerlifting and I am a newcomer to cycling- hence why I read this forum.

There are as many different styles of squats as there are lifters - the only problem with squats is if you want to lift big weights (which is not probably the best thing for cycling) you have to over develop the hamstring and not the quads! This is to primarliy to achieve a low, below or to parallel squat. If the knees move forward, the shearing forces become much too great thus grinding your knees to dust or worse case - rupture your patella tendon. People who place boards under their heals, basically don't have the flexibilty in their hips to go low enough. Go to westside-barbell.com to read more about powerlifting squat technique. I agree what you are saying re -good mornings. I perform this exercise regularly and don't suffer back ache. One good exercise I find for the quads, one which will really test you strength and stamina and is also a fantastic stability exercise, is one legged squats - but this time you hold dumbells by yourside, place one foot behind you on a bench and lower down under control with you other leg. It's great for isolating each leg incase you have differences in strength in your legs and the weight is lower (hip height) thus avoiding problems with over balancing with the weight on your shoulders.

sjay said:

This is a subject which we can go on debating until the end of time and it is also very personalised. Despite what 'personal trainers' say, different exercises do suit different people depending on their own individual biomechanics. It is interesting what you are saying - my background is powerlifting and I am a newcomer to cycling- hence why I read this forum.

I am not going to debate this any further !
I use no added weight. The exercise I noted is a remedial one, will not help cycling performance, will help the cyclist !

When I trained in a Russian gym I found the squatters all used a very wide stance. With the very heavy weights, the best squatter virtually mummified his waist with bandages and had 2 guys pull his belt tight. I always squatted with a narrow, shoulder width stance so I found the Russian style strange.

Just one question. Has your powerlifting background caused any stamina problems for you on the bike? Do you find you have an abundance of physical power for climbing e.t.c. but tend to find endurance more difficult?

sjay said:

This is a subject which we can go on debating until the end of time and it is also very personalised. Despite what 'personal trainers' say, different exercises do suit different people depending on their own individual biomechanics. It is interesting what you are saying - my background is powerlifting and I am a newcomer to cycling- hence why I read this forum.

There are as many different styles of squats as there are lifters - the only problem with squats is if you want to lift big weights (which is not probably the best thing for cycling) you have to over develop the hamstring and not the quads! This is to primarliy to achieve a low, below or to parallel squat. If the knees move forward, the shearing forces become much too great thus grinding your knees to dust or worse case - rupture your patella tendon. People who place boards under their heals, basically don't have the flexibilty in their hips to go low enough. Go to westside-barbell.com to read more about powerlifting squat technique. I agree what you are saying re -good mornings. I perform this exercise regularly and don't suffer back ache. One good exercise I find for the quads, one which will really test you strength and stamina and is also a fantastic stability exercise, is one legged squats - but this time you hold dumbells by yourside, place one foot behind you on a bench and lower down under control with you other leg. It's great for isolating each leg incase you have differences in strength in your legs and the weight is lower (hip height) thus avoiding problems with over balancing with the weight on your shoulders.

sjay said:

This is a subject which we can go on debating until the end of time and it is also very personalised. Despite what 'personal trainers' say, different exercises do suit different people depending on their own individual biomechanics. It is interesting what you are saying - my background is powerlifting and I am a newcomer to cycling- hence why I read this forum.

There are as many different styles of squats as there are lifters - the only problem with squats is if you want to lift big weights (which is not probably the best thing for cycling) you have to over develop the hamstring and not the quads! This is to primarliy to achieve a low, below or to parallel squat. If the knees move forward, the shearing forces become much too great thus grinding your knees to dust or worse case - rupture your patella tendon. People who place boards under their heals, basically don't have the flexibilty in their hips to go low enough. Go to westside-barbell.com to read more about powerlifting squat technique. I agree what you are saying re -good mornings. I perform this exercise regularly and don't suffer back ache. One good exercise I find for the quads, one which will really test you strength and stamina and is also a fantastic stability exercise, is one legged squats - but this time you hold dumbells by yourside, place one foot behind you on a bench and lower down under control with you other leg. It's great for isolating each leg incase you have differences in strength in your legs and the weight is lower (hip height) thus avoiding problems with over balancing with the weight on your shoulders.

Personally i placed the board under my heals, since it helped me feel a little more balanced with 415lb on a bar whilst squating, the last thing you need is to feel somewhat uncomfortable or unstable with that amount on a bar.

As for stance unless i didn't intend going all the way down i would use a wide stance, but if my intentions where to go lower, then i would always try to maintain > feet shoulder width apart, toes pointing forwards, bottom stuck out, shoulders back ensuring that the lower back was arched this helps prevent any disks getting slipped as you squat, its also good to stand on a box with the bar behind you and touch your heels, touch your hamstrings with the bar> these are hack squats, without the machine, helps one practice the correct squat position.

but now adays i prefare Circuit training, this involves no weights.

I have a pic of me squatting which I'll try and upload. I've never uploaded a pic before on this site so I'll see if I can do it with no hitches. The pic is 2 years old and I'm doing high rep sets of squats with moderate weight.

closesupport said:

Personally i placed the board under my heals, since it helped me feel a little more balanced with 415lb on a bar whilst squating, the last thing you need is to feel somewhat uncomfortable or unstable with that amount on a bar.

As for stance unless i didn't intend going all the way down i would use a wide stance, but if my intentions where to go lower, then i would always try to maintain > feet shoulder width apart, toes pointing forwards, bottom stuck out, shoulders back ensuring that the lower back was arched this helps prevent any disks getting slipped as you squat, its also good to stand on a box with the bar behind you and touch your heels, touch your hamstrings with the bar> these are hack squats, without the machine, helps one practice the correct squat position.

but now adays i prefare Circuit training, this involves no weights.