Where can I go?

[Mark South]

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In news[email protected], Mark South
> <[email protected]> typed:
> > "Ambrose Nankivell" <[email protected]>
wrote
> > in message news:[email protected]...
> >> And in case you hadn't noticed, being well travelled, that's a feature of the whole of Britain,
> >> not just the trains. I've not noticed particularly grimy trains outside of the south-east, but
I'm
> >> not that well travelled in the UK.
> >
> > In other countries they clean the trains occasionally.
> >
> The trains I use most (Virgin, Central, GNER & Scotrail) are all
pretty
> clean, apart from litter

You're lucky, I've mainly live in the southeast. To be fair, they are sometimes better than they
used to be, but still pretty horrible.

> >> Overcrowding, too, I've not noticed to differ particularly between the UK and other countries.
> >
> > You jest.
> >
> I've been on intensely overcrowded trains in Germany, and crowded ones
in
> Denmark & Belgium. I've also been in South Korea, where the trains run
on
> time, but that's because there's only one on the track at a time, and they're not overcrowded
> because you have to book a ticket, even for standing.

I've been on crowded trains almost everywhere, but in Europe UK trains are top contenders for
overcrowding.

> Admittedly, I don't commute into London, but that's a deliberate
choice of
> mine.

Presumably because you know the trains to be a fould experience.

> >> I'd agree that the trains in Britain are very substandard for a country this rich, but they're
> >> far from unusable.
> >
> > Easyjet offers quite cheap flights to Switzerland. Go and take a
look
> > at what can be done, and then come back and ask yourself how UK
trains
> > must appear to the Swiss.
>
> I *said* they were substandard. Didn't you notice. However, for many journeys I want to make, they
> fit the bill.

I did notice, and I agreed with you that they are substandard, but what mystifies me is why everyone
in the UK seems to think this is OK, when other countries (some poorer ones included) can manage
better train services.

Also, the prices here are very high. The Swiss are richer than us and at the same time their trains
are cheaper (like their taxes). Can someone explain that?

> > They actually have cycle space on all their trains, with a picture
of
> > a cycle on the outside of the carriage so you know where to get on. Amazing. But too hard for
> > the British.
>
> No. There are pictures of a bike on the outside of the carriages of
plenty
> of trains that carry bikes. I'd get a photo if I had a digital camera.

Fair enough. But they still haven't made it to throughout the country, and in many places you still
have to pay for a Brompton to travel by train with a bike.

The whole argument is just too depressing.
--
Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
related with booze?"
- Juha Sakkinen

 

[Mark South]

"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MPG.196ba0009af7775e989ab3@localhost...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> > Easyjet offers quite cheap flights to Switzerland. Go and take a
look
> > at what can be done, and then come back and ask yourself how UK
trains
> > must appear to the Swiss.
> >
> > They actually have cycle space on all their trains, with a picture
of a
> > cycle on the outside of the carriage so you know where to get on. Amazing. But too hard for the
> > British.
>
> Well, Virgin and Arriva transpennine both manage to have a picture of
a
> bike at the appropriate entrance. GNER uses the guard's van and
station
> staff usually know whether it will be at the front or the back.

I'm impressed, they have obviously done some work since I last used their services -- and swore
never to do so again.

> I don't think anyone doubts that British trains have problems but they are hardly the unusable
> trains that some seem to think.

Well, here in Cambridge there are trains that go non-stop to London every 30 minutes and take 42
minutes to do so. According to the timetable. I have more than once arrived at Cambridge station 2
hours in advance of a scheduled meeting in London, and still been late. In fact, about 20 times in
the last 2 years. That counts as unusable for many. God knows what it's like if one tries to take a
bike as well :-(

The railways of Britain are the unspoken (unspeakable?) allies and supporters of the car lobby.
Until they clean up their act and run fast, cheap, reliable services that integrate with other forms
of transport (ferries, other trains, buses, bikes etc) the only viable alternative for most people
will be the motor car, and we as cyclists will continue to suffer as a result.
--
Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
related with booze?"
- Juha Sakkinen

 

[Arthur Clune]

Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> wrote:

: You can always rent for the weekend when you need to. Shouldn't be much more than 60 or 70 quid a
: few times a year, which makes for a lot less than looking after one yourself.

This is what I currently do.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

 

[Gonzalez]

Tony W wrote:

>
>"Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> People complain about a train running 10 or 15 minutes late, but since when has anyone been able
>> to judge a 200+ mile journey by car to within 10 or 15 minutes.
>
>Not a fair comparison. Trains run to a timetable and some people consider that, having published a
>timetable, the train operators should at least strive to do what they say. Trains throughout the
>world run to timetables. Other countries appear able to ensure that there is at least a rough
>equivalence between what is written down and the departure and arrival times of the actual trains.
>That does not seem to be the case here.

It's absolutely a fair comparison. I do not have the choice of travelling to Cornwall by French,
German or even Indian trains. However, I do have the choice of car or train/bike combination - and I
find the train/bike combination preferable.

What would you rather? An hour delay outside Bristol on the M4 or an hour delay outside Bristol
on a train?

>> Today I coughed up £165 for a year's road tax - that's the equivalent of 4 return train journeys
>> to Cornwall - and the fuel, servicing and insurance haven't been taken into account. I reckon
>> it's £1000 per year to keep my car on the road, and my car's cheap to run!
>
>I suspect you underestimate the fixed cost of having a car. Of course, if you actually want to go
>anywhere it is even more expensive. But, most of us decide (many with reluctance) that it is a
>facility we 'need'.

£165 - Road Tax £250 - Service and MoT £116 - Third party insurance £400 - Oil top ups and
miscellaneous repairs

My car is a G reg Peugeot 309 Diesel. It simply ain't worth insuring it above third party only.
--
remove remove to reply

 

[The Mark]

Mark South wrote:
>
> In other countries they clean the trains occasionally.
>
I used to work beside a guy who came into work by train and was always 15 minutes late on a monday
morning. He was told by British rail (yes, it's an old story) that the train needed to be cleaned
before leaving the depot and it always took longer on a Monday morning.
--
Mark Road bike, Mountain bike and I'm getting something special built for me.

 

[Gonzalez]

Colin Blackburn wrote:

>> The litter is not the only problem -- and yes, we are an antisocial bunch -- litter is rarely
>> continuously cleared and some or the seats do not appear to have been cleaned since Victoria was
>> a lass.
>
>I wonder which trains you have actually used recently in the UK. I use GNER and Virgin regularly
>and litter is continuously cleared on both. Arriva transpennine is continuously cleared though
>Arriva north isn't, though that is a local service.

Late night commuter trains in London are especially dirty. My experience of intercity trains is
excellent.
--
remove remove to reply

 

[Gonzalez]

Mark South wrote:

>Also, the prices here are very high. The Swiss are richer than us and at the same time their trains
>are cheaper (like their taxes). Can someone explain that?

They are still living off Nazi gold.
--
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[Tony W]

"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MPG.196b9f47d9bff2be989ab2@localhost...

>
> I wonder which trains you have actually used recently in the UK. I use GNER and Virgin regularly
> and litter is continuously cleared on both. Arriva transpennine is continuously cleared though
> Arriva north isn't, though that is a local service.

Silverlink, Virgin, WAGN and something nasty in the south east in the last 3 months (and remember --
I don't use trains often).

 

[John B]

Arthur Clune wrote:

> Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : You can always rent for the weekend when you need to. Shouldn't be much more than 60 or 70 quid
> : a few times a year, which makes for a lot less than looking after one yourself.
>
> This is what I currently do.
>

This was something we also agreed we could do when we became a car-free family around 15 years ago.

To date it hasn't been necessary.

John B

 

[Ambrose Nankive]

In news:[email protected], Arthur Clune <[email protected]> typed:
> Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You can always rent for the weekend when you need to. Shouldn't be much more than 60 or 70 quid a
>> few times a year, which makes for a lot less than looking after one yourself.
>
> This is what I currently do.

Sorry, i think I should have remembered that from having this discussion before.

Out of interest, why doesn't it work?

Ambrose