Which Cycling Shoes are Best Ventilated?

[Jay]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
>
Dear Carl,

Don't you think this sounds like gout?

J.

 

[Andrew Price]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:17:21 -0700, Colin Campbell
<[email protected]> wrote:

[---]

>But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get help
>with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need to see a
>"professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist?

That's what I'd do as a first step. Apart from being able to treat
the corn problem, a good one should also be able to see if there is a
fit problem with your shoes, and whether or not this could be helped
by sole inserts.

>Do I need to
>look into custom orthotics?

A good podiatrist should be able to answer that question.

 

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:17:21 -0700, Colin Campbell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>OK, several of you responded that fit may be part of my problem. I'm
>certainly willing to concede that that is a possibility. One thing I
>didn't mention is that I've been plagued by corns on the second joint of
>the second toe of both feet for a good 18 months or longer. If I had to
>guess, this problem might have developed as I (1) switched to Sidi
>shoes, and (2) began riding more and more. I used Diadora shoes for a
>few years before changing to Sidis.
>
>I'm trying a pair of Sidi Genius 5 shoes in 45 Narrow, rather than my
>current 44.5 Narrow, to see if that helps with the corns. These new
>shoes are due in a matter of days. (Why do club "deals" take so long to
>process?)
>
>But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get help
>with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need to see a
>"professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist? Do I need to
>look into custom orthotics? Might I find happiness with another shoe
>brand, and how would I find that out? Should I look into semi-custom or
>custom shoes like Rocket 7's?
>
>I spend too much time on the bike to go cheap on foot comfort issues,
>but I'm not sure just what to do.

Dear Colin,

Corns on the second joint of your second toes do sound like a fitting
problem.

But corns on your toes aren't likely to burn the soles of your feet.

Tell a doctor that the soles of your feet sometimes feel as if they're
on fire.

If a doctor rules out some unpleasant possibilities that have nothing
to do with how your shoes fit, then you have plenty of time to worry
about less important things, such as bicycle shoes.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

> OK, several of you responded that fit may be part of my problem. I'm
> certainly willing to concede that that is a possibility. One thing I
> didn't mention is that I've been plagued by corns on the second joint
> of the second toe of both feet for a good 18 months or longer. If I
> had to guess, this problem might have developed as I (1) switched to
> Sidi shoes, and (2) began riding more and more. I used Diadora shoes
> for a few years before changing to Sidis.
>
> I'm trying a pair of Sidi Genius 5 shoes in 45 Narrow, rather than my
> current 44.5 Narrow, to see if that helps with the corns. These new
> shoes are due in a matter of days. (Why do club "deals" take so long
> to process?)
>
> But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get
> help with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need
> to see a "professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist? Do I
> need to look into custom orthotics? Might I find happiness with
> another shoe brand, and how would I find that out? Should I look
> into semi-custom or custom shoes like Rocket 7's?
>
> I spend too much time on the bike to go cheap on foot comfort issues,
> but I'm not sure just what to do.

You might find Andy Pruitt's e-book on this sort of thing helpful. I
would think that a sports medicine clinic ought to be able to be
helpful- if you live in or near Colorado, seeing Pruitt himself might be
a reasonable idea.

http://www.roadbikerider.com/ap_excerpt.htm

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

> I suffer at times from "hot foot" - the soles of one or both feet feel
> as if they're on fire. The most recent occurrence was at the Tour de
> Palm Springs, where temps reached 81F. That was the first time in a
> couple of years I've ridden over 100 miles. (I removed my shoes at one
> rest stop around the 80 mile mark for 4 - 5 minutes, and that helped,
> but the sensation returned later.)
>
> I've read that as people age, the thickness of the padding on the soles
> of their feet may get thinner, and this may lead to the "hot foot" feeling.
>
> But I'm beginning to believe that my Sidi shoes are possibly somewhat to
> blame. For one thing, my feet seldom feel cold on winter mornings, and
> I used to have that feeling regularly a few years back when I would
> commute to work in 35F - 40F temps. There haven't been any 35F mornings
> this winter, but I've ridden at 38F to 40F a few times. I used to wear
> double socks on those cold mornings; now, it's just standard cycling socks.
>
> Are there other quality brands that are better ventilated? I may need
> to have an alternative to the Sidis for the warmer months.
>
> (VeloNews studied seven brands of carbon soled shoes in the recent
> buyer's guide, but didn't rate the shoes for ventilation.)

Bicycling hot foot may well be entirely the fault of
shoes tight around the girth of the foot (the transverse arch.)
The arteries supplying blood to the foot are close to the
top of the foot, and are constricted in a tight shoe.
The symptom is hot foot. Removing the shoe and restoring
circulation relieves the symptom.

--
Michael Press

 

[DI]

"Colin Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, several of you responded that fit may be part of my problem. I'm
> certainly willing to concede that that is a possibility. One thing I
> didn't mention is that I've been plagued by corns on the second joint of
> the second toe of both feet for a good 18 months or longer. If I had to
> guess, this problem might have developed as I (1) switched to Sidi shoes,
> and (2) began riding more and more. I used Diadora shoes for a few years
> before changing to Sidis.
>
> I'm trying a pair of Sidi Genius 5 shoes in 45 Narrow, rather than my
> current 44.5 Narrow, to see if that helps with the corns. These new shoes
> are due in a matter of days. (Why do club "deals" take so long to
> process?)
>
> But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get help
> with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need to see a
> "professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist? Do I need to look
> into custom orthotics? Might I find happiness with another shoe brand,
> and how would I find that out? Should I look into semi-custom or custom
> shoes like Rocket 7's?
>
> I spend too much time on the bike to go cheap on foot comfort issues, but
> I'm not sure just what to do.

I had the same problem, until I switched to sandals, during the winter I put
regular pedals on the bike and ride with tennis shoes. I haven't had any
foot problems since. Bike shoes seem to be to narrow for my toes and
cramp the toes to much, cutting off circulation.

 

[A Muzi]

> Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I suffer at times from "hot foot" - the soles of one or both feet feel
>> as if they're on fire. The most recent occurrence was at the Tour de
>> Palm Springs, where temps reached 81F. That was the first time in a
>> couple of years I've ridden over 100 miles. (I removed my shoes at one
>> rest stop around the 80 mile mark for 4 - 5 minutes, and that helped,
>> but the sensation returned later.)
>> I've read that as people age, the thickness of the padding on the soles
>> of their feet may get thinner, and this may lead to the "hot foot" feeling.
>> But I'm beginning to believe that my Sidi shoes are possibly somewhat to
>> blame. For one thing, my feet seldom feel cold on winter mornings, and
>> I used to have that feeling regularly a few years back when I would
>> commute to work in 35F - 40F temps. There haven't been any 35F mornings
>> this winter, but I've ridden at 38F to 40F a few times. I used to wear
>> double socks on those cold mornings; now, it's just standard cycling socks.
>> Are there other quality brands that are better ventilated? I may need
>> to have an alternative to the Sidis for the warmer months.
>> (VeloNews studied seven brands of carbon soled shoes in the recent
>> buyer's guide, but didn't rate the shoes for ventilation.)

Michael Press wrote:
> Bicycling hot foot may well be entirely the fault of
> shoes tight around the girth of the foot (the transverse arch.)
> The arteries supplying blood to the foot are close to the
> top of the foot, and are constricted in a tight shoe.
> The symptom is hot foot. Removing the shoe and restoring
> circulation relieves the symptom.

Indeed. And tight cycling shoes are seen frequently, too.

I wouldn't know about Colin's foot but many older riders do tend to both
buy their 'size' after their feet have gained their after-forty growth
spurt and also to 'remember' to buy cycling shoes tight. That was good
advice when shoes were 2mm leather but, with modern Lorica shoes,
current shoe fit does not change after riding.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:04:14 -0500, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>>
>Dear Carl,
>
>Don't you think this sounds like gout?
>
>J.

Dear Jay,

The "pangs arthritic that infest the toe of libertine excess"?

Nah, Colin doesn't sound gouty, even though gout can show up in feet,
ankles, knees, and even shoulders, not just toes.

Colin's burning soles went away in a few minutes when he took his
shoes off, both his feet bothered him, exercise seemed to cause it,
and he didn't mention any swelling or inflammation.

Gout doesn't go away in a few minutes, isn't bilateral, can't be
relieved by shoe removal, isn't associated with exercise, and usually
involves swelling and inflammation.

Most of all, gout hurts like hell. You don't ask for advice on a
bicycle newsgroup about shoe ventilation when you can barely walk for
a week. You ask for a doctor without any prompting.

For a good essay on gout, see Berton Roueche's "A Perverse,
Ungrateful, Maleficient Malady" in "Eleven Blue Men." It's outdated,
but it gives those of us lucky enough not to suffer from gout a faint
idea of how those poor bastards feel:


http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1948/03/13/1948_03_13_066_TNY_CARDS_000214470

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Peter Cole]

A Muzi wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
>> Bicycling hot foot may well be entirely the fault of
>> shoes tight around the girth of the foot (the transverse arch.)
>> The arteries supplying blood to the foot are close to the
>> top of the foot, and are constricted in a tight shoe.
>> The symptom is hot foot. Removing the shoe and restoring
>> circulation relieves the symptom.
>
> Indeed. And tight cycling shoes are seen frequently, too.
>
> I wouldn't know about Colin's foot but many older riders do tend to both
> buy their 'size' after their feet have gained their after-forty growth
> spurt and also to 'remember' to buy cycling shoes tight. That was good
> advice when shoes were 2mm leather but, with modern Lorica shoes,
> current shoe fit does not change after riding.

Excellent points. I think that many/most cases of "hot foot" are from
too tight shoes. I became aware of this on long brevet rides when I
found that the intense foot pain I was having went away soon after I
loosened the straps. The shoes didn't feel tight. After that, I began
riding with shoes adjusted to feel too loose. No more problems.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:33:20 -0800, Colin Campbell wrote:

> I suffer at times from "hot foot" - the soles of one or both feet feel as
> if they're on fire. The most recent occurrence was at the Tour de Palm
> Springs, where temps reached 81F. That was the first time in a couple of
> years I've ridden over 100 miles. (I removed my shoes at one rest stop
> around the 80 mile mark for 4 - 5 minutes, and that helped, but the
> sensation returned later.)
>
> I've read that as people age, the thickness of the padding on the soles of
> their feet may get thinner, and this may lead to the "hot foot" feeling.
>
> But I'm beginning to believe that my Sidi shoes are possibly somewhat to
> blame. For one thing, my feet seldom feel cold on winter mornings, and I
> used to have that feeling regularly a few years back when I would commute
> to work in 35F - 40F temps. There haven't been any 35F mornings this
> winter, but I've ridden at 38F to 40F a few times. I used to wear double
> socks on those cold mornings; now, it's just standard cycling socks.
>
> Are there other quality brands that are better ventilated? I may need to
> have an alternative to the Sidis for the warmer months.
>
> (VeloNews studied seven brands of carbon soled shoes in the recent buyer's
> guide, but didn't rate the shoes for ventilation.)

If you want all-mesh, try the Adidas Hammer, on sale now at Nashbar:

http://tinyurl.com/34jwuv

Also, I find that wool socks are more comfortable, even in hot weather.
They provide more cushioning, and breathe and wick better than cotton or
synthetics. They last many times longer too. I don't even buy cotton
socks anymore.

Matt O.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:27:41 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:17:21 -0700, Colin Campbell <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> [---]
>
>>But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get help
>>with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need to see a
>>"professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist?
>
> That's what I'd do as a first step. Apart from being able to treat the
> corn problem, a good one should also be able to see if there is a fit
> problem with your shoes, and whether or not this could be helped by sole
> inserts.
>
>>Do I need to
>>look into custom orthotics?
>
> A good podiatrist should be able to answer that question.

Running and ski shops often do orthotics, even for other sports like
cycling.

Matt O.

 

[Andrew Price]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:31:44 -0400, Matt O'Toole
<[email protected]> wrote:

[---]

>Also, I find that wool socks are more comfortable, even in hot weather.
>They provide more cushioning, and breathe and wick better than cotton or
>synthetics. They last many times longer too. I don't even buy cotton
>socks anymore.

I also no longer buy cotton socks because they don't wick enough and I
end up getting cold feet.

And yet socks are still sold, with varying percentages of cotton, as
"cycling" socks. Has anyone ever listed the pros and cons of

- cotton
- wool
- synthetics (polyester/polyamide/coolmax etc) ?

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

> OK, several of you responded that fit may be part of my problem. I'm
> certainly willing to concede that that is a possibility. One thing I
> didn't mention is that I've been plagued by corns on the second joint of
> the second toe of both feet for a good 18 months or longer. If I had to
> guess, this problem might have developed as I (1) switched to Sidi
> shoes, and (2) began riding more and more. I used Diadora shoes for a
> few years before changing to Sidis.
>
> I'm trying a pair of Sidi Genius 5 shoes in 45 Narrow, rather than my
> current 44.5 Narrow, to see if that helps with the corns. These new
> shoes are due in a matter of days. (Why do club "deals" take so long to
> process?)
>
> But this is all self-diagnosis. How likely am I to be able to get help
> with proper fitting from the folks at the bike shop? Do I need to see a
> "professional"? And who would that be - a Podiatrist? Do I need to
> look into custom orthotics? Might I find happiness with another shoe
> brand, and how would I find that out? Should I look into semi-custom or
> custom shoes like Rocket 7's?
>
> I spend too much time on the bike to go cheap on foot comfort issues,
> but I'm not sure just what to do.

Definitely time to consult with competent medical experts.
Do not stop with the first one if you feel unsure of the
diagnosis, prescription, and prognosis. If you are with a
HMO, you can simply tell the right people you are not satisfied
with a medical consultation, and they will get you another.
I have done this. Remember that nobody cares more about your
health than you do, you have ultimate responsibility, and
nobody has authority to interfere with you assuming your
responsibility and discharging your duties.

--
Michael Press

 

[velodancer]

On Mar 8, 10:31 pm, [email protected] wrote:

> Dear Colin,
>
> Better shoe ventilation can't hurt, but you may be describing
> progressive peripheral neuropathy, not actual heat.
>
> I hope that's not the case, or that you just have less padding on your
> paws, but . . .
>
> A) The soles of your feet felt as if they were "on fire" at only 81F.
>
> B) Removing your shoes for "a few minutes" helped.
>
> C) You no longer feel real cold too well.
>
> ***
>
> A) If your "burning" feet were just hot, they'd cool off in moments
> when you took your shoes off, not minutes.
>
> It's common for progressive peripheral neuropathy to give the
> sensation of burning, freezing, and swelling. Your brain has to put
> some interpretation on the false signals.
>
> B) Taking your shoes off for relief that takes a few minutes (and
> putting them back on a few minutes later for the same reason) is a
> classic sign of progressive peripheral neuropathy--the slight change
> in stimulation makes a difference in the annoying static coming from
> the nerves in the feet. Velcro straps are darned helpful.
>
> C) Failure to notice real cold (far more common than real heat) is
> another classic sign. The failing nerves no longer transmit true
> sensation, so numbness to real cold and real touch is the other side
> of progressive peripheral neuropathy.
>
> ***
>
> It's hard to realize that your feet are going numb when you can feel
> them burning. Who bothers to test their toes for sensation?
>
> A doctor will have you close your eyes while he touches your feet with
> a very thin wire. He won't take long, won't go double-or-nothing, and
> won't try again with a thicker wire. You can try it yourself if you
> have a lovely assistant. (It's awfully hard to do on your own.)
>
> The progress of the disease can be so slow that truly dim-witted
> victims can take several years to figure out what's going on, even
> with a family history.
>
> Or so I hear. I'm still in denial. The silver lining is that my feet
> no longer bother me on cold rides.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

I don't know about "progressive" neuropathy, but there is little doubt
that cycling can cause severe chronic metatarsalgia. In my case, the
proximal cause appeared to be rat trap pedals and what passed for
touring shoes in the 1980s concentrating pressure on the balls of my
feet. This pressure on was compounded by my preference for positioning
the pedal axle slightly in front of the ball of my foot. The result
did not feel like "heat" but severe and excruciating pain relieved
either by stopping or by flipping the pedal and moving the pressure
off the ball of my foot.

Interestingly enough, cycling is about the only thing that does not
hurt my feet now. I constructed a platform pedal modeled after
triathlon transition pedals, moved my foot forward past the pedal
axle, and voila, no pain. Despite attempts with orthotics and pressure
relief cutouts, I cannot walk or run for long without pain (although
not excruciating as with the rattrap pain), and forget about walking
barefoot!