Which Power Meter?

[daveryanwyoming]

Just a shout out to Alex for compiling this very nice discussion of power meters, what to look for, how to think about some of the tradeoffs and what's out there commercially, on the used market or in development at this time. Very nice update following several new entrants into the PM market in recent years.

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/which-power-meter.html

Nice article Alex!

-Dave

 

[Alex Simmons]

Thanks Dave. It was a bit of a brain dump, and so many micro issues underneath it all as well.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons .

Thanks Dave. It was a bit of a brain dump, and so many micro issues underneath it all as well.

Like the article (brain dump) and added a menu link on the sidebar of my blog

 

[Alex Simmons]

I updated post with info on a couple more (crank based) power meters:
- Axis Cranks
- Factor

 

[RChung]

"Axis cranks" sounds like a WWII pejorative.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by RChung .

"Axis cranks" sounds like a WWII pejorative.

Yeah rumor has it they have several versions of their Axis of Power Cranks:

- The ******: Standard 130 BCD big rings for real pro uber racers and supermen on the bike

- The Mussolini: Compact 110 BCD cranks for those steep passes in the Pyrenees

- The Hirohito: NJS certified 144 BCD track cranks perfect for Keirins

 

[steve]

Hey Alex thats a fantastic article!!

 

[Alex Simmons]

Originally Posted by steve .

Hey Alex thats a fantastic article!!

Thanks Steve

I've been trying to update it as new information comes along, e.g. Power2Max upgraded their website and sales support in some markets today.

 

[vspa]

as a follow up information on power meter software's options would be nice,

 

[Alex Simmons]

Originally Posted by vspa .

as a follow up information on power meter software's options would be nice,

It's on the radar, and tricky too, there are at least 10 desktop software packages, plus all the online offerings.

I'd also like to do head units options as well but that may not be so easy.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Alex, I am not sure if it will help if you write up head units and you will want to verify my information, but here is a link to my blog when I was looking at various ANT+ head units.
Just click on the embedded image and you can see the chart a little better.

http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2012/12/power-sensor-ant-head-unit.html

So far the only software that I have used is WKO+ and Golden Cheetah just slightly. Since WKO+ seems to work so well for me I just about abandoned all other serious applications. I don't consider the premium membership of Strava and power metrics to be good since it does not use the compiled training to know ongoing stress loads.

The PMC in WKO+ is just the best IMO of the applications that I have tried, but I don't have a lot of comparison experience. I don't like the cloud based options and can't see ongoing payments to TrainingPeaks for online application. Plus it is hard for me to see the metrics on TrainingPeaks. Blame it on having older eyes and weak reading glasses.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Things are really popping with bike technology and with power meters. Like a fattened large mouth bass that doesn't need another meal can't resist that shiny spinning lure that passes by, I jumped on a new G3 hub wheel build at the announcement of the price drop when I already had a decent SL+ hub on some rock solid training wheels. The Saris business strategy was that enticing bait just at a time when I was seriously contemplating going all crank based PM's for my bikes (I really like the Quarq on the TT bike) but I jumped on the G3 bait quickly. I will say that I got the wheel build from my friend even cheaper than what is advertised since he can get bike components at distributor rates. So far I am not regretting the HED Belgium rims and G3 combo. I also like the idea of doing a firmware update by simply taking the cap up to my computer and connecting to a USB to make the updates.

I've been using the G3 for about a week and see that Powertap has more cool stuff in the works and what is cool news is their joint venture with DT Swiss. They will still have the G3 hub just as it is, but a new hub GS will be the new hub. I will stop here and let those interested read a post by DC Rainmaker. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/powertaps-bluetooth-trainers.html

.......what really caught my attention here is the announcement of a Powertap direct drive trainer called the Silencer.

More new PM news
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/eurobike-power-roundup.html

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/power2max-releases-compatibility.html

Things really do seem to be stirring in the bike technology products

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

Things are really popping with bike technology and with power meters. ...

Yes, interesting news from PowerTap this week. That new GS hub looks really nice and partnering with DT Swiss for 240 internals is brilliant in terms of merging proven power measurement technology with high end hub technology. Seems like a very smart move on their part. It also gives a whole new light to the recent price drop of the G3 hubs, sure no doubt they felt competitive pressure from Stages and wanted to retain their leadership as market entry products but dropping the G3 price just prior to introducing their new GS hub sends a bit different message about making room in the pricing structure for their new high end product.

The trainer looks interesting as well, but it does seem funny that it doesn't send speed and pseudo power data via ANT+ the way the Lemond trainer already does. Seems like a big oversight from the company that makes PT hubs especially because this trainer cannot be used simultaneously with one of their power hubs.

BTW, very nice wheelset Felt. I love my Ardennes and suspect you'll really like the Belgium rims. You probably already know this from running your Flo wheels, but run those babies a bit lower on air pressure than you would with traditional 19mm rims. HED suggests at least 11% lower pressure (seems crazy precise for something that can't be pinned down to the exact PSI but that's what they have on their website). I'll race traditional 19mm rims with 23c tires at 115-120 psi on dry days but run my wider C2 rims with 23c tires at 95-100 psi if it's dry and less if it's raining. They're smooth as silk at those pressures and from the roller Crr testing I've done they're still very fast.

-Dave

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

BTW, very nice wheelset Felt. I love my Ardennes and suspect you'll really like the Belgium rims. You probably already know this from running your Flo wheels, but run those babies a bit lower on air pressure than you would with traditional 19mm rims. HED suggests at least 11% lower pressure (seems crazy precise for something that can't be pinned down to the exact PSI but that's what they have on their website). I'll race traditional 19mm rims with 23c tires at 115-120 psi on dry days but run my wider C2 rims with 23c tires at 95-100 psi if it's dry and less if it's raining. They're smooth as silk at those pressures and from the roller Crr testing I've done they're still very fast.

-Dave

I tried to get the Belgium Plus rim, which is the Ardennes 25mm rim relabeled by HED to sell as a standalone rim for wheel builders, but the backorder time some think will be as long as next year because HED is using a lot of those rims in the higher sell of the Ardennes sets. I also wanted to try latex tubes, but could not find any locally.

Our ride yesterday was canceled due to the amount of lightning so it looks like I will have to wait until next weekend to see how the wheel set feels out on pavement. For now the G3 hub is working well and it was nice and easy to do a firmware update on the G3 hub cap micro USB connection yesterday through the PowerAgent software. Only negative thing I see so far is the stated low battery time of 200 hours in the paperwork.

Mainly I am looking forward to the feel of those tires/rims on descents. I sure like the way the FLO's rim width feels and twisty quick downhill gradients and those I have Mich Pro4's. With the new wheels I am switching over to Conti GP4000s 23's (Thanks to Tom A.) and will run those as you suggested at slightly under 100 psi.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .


Mainly I am looking forward to the feel of those tires/rims on descents. I sure like the way the FLO's rim width feels and twisty quick downhill gradients and those I have Mich Pro4's. With the new wheels I am switching over to Conti GP4000s 23's (Thanks to Tom A.) and will run those as you suggested at slightly under 100 psi.

I'd try a couple runs under 90. It's gonna be awhile to unlearn the old inflation rules especially as HED warns normal tire pressures can decompress the spokes. If the air volume theory is true you'd technically need even less (albeit very slightly) than the 23mm HED c2's.

At 165-170lbs: I ran 25mm 4-seasons at 85-86psi rear/81-83psi front on my C2's, and for GP4000s in a 23... approx 88-89psi rear/83-85psi font. Latex innies of course, the ride is dreamy. At my weight, the tires feel overinflated in the 90's. Btw. I live in NYC where one might think anything is attainable... only one shop carries latex in the form of the Vittoria. Those may have to be ordered and shipped.

I'm not sure why I'm thinking it wouldn't be ideal to run clincher tires that are narrower than the rims.

YMMV.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by danfoz .

I'm not sure why I'm thinking it wouldn't be ideal to run clincher tires that are narrower than the rims.

YMMV.

Thanks Dan
Just to clarify I am using 23mm Conti's on the Belgium C2 23mm rim.
I was not able to get the Belgium Plus (Ardennes) rim.

 

[swampy1970]

Team Sky have ditched their SRM's for Stages.

 

[jcm01]

Originally Posted by swampy1970

Team Sky have ditched their SRM's for Stages.

Yep! I am really surprised. Don't get me wrong, Stages is great. I have had 2 Stages PM's, (currently have 1) but also have SRM. For the money, Stages is great. It's a great way to start training with power at a price point that is under $1K. However, there are indeed drawbacks when compared to a meter like SRM, at least in my opinion. I'm just surprised a pro team, let alone a team like Sky, moved away from SRM.

 

[steve]

Originally Posted by jcm01
I'm just surprised a pro team, let alone a team like Sky, moved away from SRM.

Money talks!

Like someone else suggested, they'll be using their SRM's away from view of the public and press

The stages PM's are fantastic value though, possibly a game changer and good enough for 99% of us roadies.

 

[jcm01]

Originally Posted by steve
Like someone else suggested, they'll be using their SRM's away from view of the public and press

Oh, got it. Wasn't aware of that. Makes sense!

Originally Posted by steve
The stages PM's are fantastic value though, possibly a game changer and good enough for 99% of us roadies.

Completely agree. I did run into some problem with the non-drive side crank arm measurement however. It appears that I generate close to 45% of my power from my left leg. So when the Stages doubles it, it appears that I am generating 10% less power than I am. On one hand, this is a non-factor because all the matters is that the unit is consistent and you can train to it, which of course you can. However if you have 1 Stages and 1 SRM for example, it's tough to compare your workload from various rides. Regardless, I agree with you in that Stages did a great job and their meters are a great value.