who is the biggest war criminal?

[Jupiler]

I know this may seem shallow but, how far do you live from the Mercxx bicycle factory

I'm not sure but I think the factory is in Meise, that's about 20 km from here. I never been there though. I've heard they have a huge showroom - I should check it out soon...

I do live very close to the neighbourhood were Eddy Merckx lived in his childhood (St Pieters Woluwe). It's cool to be riding he same streets as Eddy did when he started out, some 45 or 50 years ago

 

[darkboong]

Let's also be clear also that the U.S.A. was not the only participant in this action. These other countries are conveniently, at least on this thread, never mentioned

I have been clear on that point in this very thread (and others). The focus remains with Bush for two reasons :
1) His administration lead the invasion and occupation.
2) Tony Blair listens to the US administration more than he listens to his own electorate.

 

[davidmc]

I'm not sure but I think the factory is in Meise, that's about 20 km from here. I never been there though. I've heard they have a huge showroom - I should check it out soon...

I do live very close to the neighbourhood were Eddy Merckx lived in his childhood (St Pieters Woluwe). It's cool to be riding he same streets as Eddy did when he started out, some 45 or 50 years ago

Dude That's awesome I'm serious. Merckxx is a living legend. I would check out the factory, if I lived in the proximity

 

[davidmc]

Just reading a book called "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts.
This detailed book examines energy requirements of this age, throughout the world, and then tries to plot how those requirements will be met.
Roberts gives some fascinating details about the oil industry, the reserves, alternative hydrocarbon sources of energy.

He explores the concept of "easy oil" (which are supplies which can be easily accessed and are relatively cheap to refine and distribute), "expensive oil" which is oil that is located but is not cheap to refine or produce and "unknown oil" which is oil that may well be out there but which has never been located, tested, and subject to cost/benefit analysis.

Roberts talks to oil optimists and oil pessimists : those who think we will be able to weather the shortage and those who think we're in the toilet.
80m barrels of oil a day, each day, everyday are required to fuel the worlds energy needs (of which the USA consumes 46% of total).
When China and India are online - that requirement will increase to 150m barrels of day, every day, 24 hours perday.

Given that known reserves totals 2 trillion barrels : it is now a matter of not if but when, the tipping point is reached.

Roberts also makes the case about geopolitical issues : oil and politics are entwinned and have been entwinned since Standard Oil (JD Rockerfeller) time.
Roberts articulates the case that whoever has oil, has the West by the groin and that because energy in the west is based on oil, then the oil countries
play the tune.

Roberts discussed alternative sources of energy - wind farming, hydrogen fuel cell energy, fusion, fisson.



It's a very very worthwhile read.

Sounds interesting. Another book of note is: "PRIZE : THE EPIC QUEST FOR OIL, MONEY & POWER", by Daniel Yergin.

"The Prize, winner of the 1992 Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction, is a comprehensive history of one of the commodities that powers the world--oil. Founded in the 19th century, the oil industry began producing kerosene for lamps and progressed to gasoline. Huge personal fortunes arose from it, and whole nations sprung out of the power politics of the oil wells. Yergin's fascinating account sweeps from early robber barons like John D. Rockefeller, to the oil crisis of the 1970s, through to the Gulf War."

I read it about 4 yrs. ago.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...9/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-8470586-5972601

 

[Carrera]

Quite simple. The architects of the war should be held to account. We need some kind of credible international court of human rights with the power to sanction where necessary.
David, my view is this: It's fine to demolish an infrastructure that may not be dynamically sound but demolishing something means taking on the responsibilty of putting something better in place. Bush has failed to do this. he has knocked something down but, in place of the ruins, there is chaos.
If you compare this with the Romans there's a big difference. Most foreign peoples the Romans ruled over (including the Jews) were actually, in a sense, better off than before. The Romans were very good at creating harmony and cohesion, respecting foreign cultures and winning them over.
The U.S. claims it wishes to rebuild Iraq but this has been so much hot air. It seems to me that the Iraqis have been treated badly like a subject nation of a colonial power. This is why the insurgency has grown to such a degree and, if living standards continue to decline in Iraq, it will get a lot worse.

Very well. That is your prerogative. What would you do w/ Prime Minister Blair

 

[davidmc]

Quite simple. The architects of the war should be held to account. We need some kind of credible international court of human rights with the power to sanction where necessary.
David, my view is this: It's fine to demolish an infrastructure that may not be dynamically sound but demolishing something means taking on the responsibilty of putting something better in place. Bush has failed to do this. he has knocked something down but, in place of the ruins, there is chaos.
If you compare this with the Romans there's a big difference. Most foreign peoples the Romans ruled over (including the Jews) were actually, in a sense, better off than before. The Romans were very good at creating harmony and cohesion, respecting foreign cultures and winning them over.
The U.S. claims it wishes to rebuild Iraq but this has been so much hot air. It seems to me that the Iraqis have been treated badly like a subject nation of a colonial power. This is why the insurgency has grown to such a degree and, if living standards continue to decline in Iraq, it will get a lot worse.

Accomplishments:
Generated 4,518 MW on October 6, surpassing the pre-war level of 4,400 MW.
USAID is working to add 827 MW of capacity through new generation and rehabilitation projects.
Conducting water and sanitation projects worth $183 million that will benefit 14.5 million people.
Rehabilitating three key bridges (Khazir, Tikrit, and Al Mat) critical to the flow of passengers and goods throughout Iraq. Al Mat Bridge was the first to be completed and reopened March 3.
Reopened Umm Qasr seaport on June 17. Approximately 40 ships offload cargo per month.
Completed emergency work to prepare Baghdad and Basrah airports for operations. More than 5,000 flights have arrived and departed Baghdad International Airport since July, which now averages more than 20 non-military movements per day.
Restored international calling service and activated more than 140,000 subscriber lines in Baghdad.
See:
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/

 

[zapper]

Frankly, I don't see where you're going with anything recently, Dave.

Why?...Because you do not agree with what he is saying?

 

[limerickman]

Why?...Because you do not agree with what he is saying?

"Dings have been busy down 'ere in da motorpool lately, ma hands are tired from dealin' dem decks a cards all day, ya know !
Wat's yours Rizo, ruut or mald ?"

 

[davidmc]

"Dings have been busy down 'ere in da motorpool lately, ma hands are tired from dealin' dem decks a cards all day, ya know !
Wat's yours Rizo, ruut or mald ?"

Are you saying "welcome back" to Zapper

 

[zapper]

"Dings have been busy down 'ere in da motorpool lately, ma hands are tired from dealin' dem decks a cards all day, ya know !
Wat's yours Rizo, ruut or mald ?"

I'm startin to think this is you in this photo you relish...Actually my hands are tired from painting all day.....while you are half steppin....

 

[zapper]

Are you saying "welcome back" to Zapper

He's just ****** because LA is sportin the yellow jersey....

 

[limerickman]

Are you saying "welcome back" to Zapper

Dave : thanks for the link re that book you were telling us about earlier.

If you can get a copy of the book I quoted earlier, it's great reading.

 

[darkboong]

Accomplishments:
Generated 4,518 MW on October 6, surpassing the pre-war level of 4,400 MW.

MW is just peak capacity, it's a measurement of the rate of flow. The key figure is MW-hours, ie : the amount of energy supplied. Reports are that Baghdad have less hours of electricity now.

USAID is working to add 827 MW of capacity through new generation and rehabilitation projects.

Handy to have some peak in hand, but it comes down to sustaining it. Also note that the SH regime didn't have the option of refitting the main plants, the kit required was blocked by the sanctions.

Conducting water and sanitation projects worth $183 million that will benefit 14.5 million people.

Small change spread very thinly. 14.5m is a large fraction of the population of Iraq. The Coalition specifically targetted the sewage and water plants, and they were very successful in destroying them. Also keep in mind that a fair chunk of that $183m will be spent at 3-4x USA rates because it will be carried out by American companies employing foreign workers.

$183m will barely scratch the surface of the damage done by the war and sanctions. Where did the other $18bn for rebuilding infrastructure go ?

Rehabilitating three key bridges (Khazir, Tikrit, and Al Mat) critical to the flow of passengers and goods throughout Iraq. Al Mat Bridge was the first to be completed and reopened March 3.

Maybe shouldn't have bombed them in the first place, huh ?

Reopened Umm Qasr seaport on June 17. Approximately 40 ships offload cargo per month.

Handy, keeps the war machine supplied and the oil flowing - providing the resistance hasn't blown up the pipelines again. Those are the folks who don't want the war machine there of course (see Pape's recent study on Suicide Terrorism).

Completed emergency work to prepare Baghdad and Basrah airports for operations. More than 5,000 flights have arrived and departed Baghdad International Airport since July, which now averages more than 20 non-military movements per day.

5000/365 = 13/day average. That's the main airport - which is most heavily used by the Coalition war machine traffic.

Restored international calling service and activated more than 140,000 subscriber lines in Baghdad.

Couple of racks of switchgear, maybe even less these days... Big whup.

I know this post will come off as being a bit brusque, but in truth it is nice to see some good work has been done. In practice it is still trivial stuff in the light of the damage done and the security situation.

 

[EoinC]

...Another book of note is: "PRIZE : THE EPIC QUEST FOR OIL, MONEY & POWER", by Daniel Yergin...

If I recall correctly, Yergin also created and narrated a series of TV episodes based around the book.

 

[EoinC]

...It's fine to demolish an infrastructure that may not be dynamically sound...

...if it is an infrastructure that you own.

 

[EoinC]

...I know this post will come off as being a bit brusque, but in truth it is nice to see some good work has been done. In practice it is still trivial stuff in the light of the damage done and the security situation.

Good points, DB. Years of sanctions, bomb the **** out of them and then claim that things are getting better as you rebuild? They weren't likely to get a whole lot worse, were they? Those 20 non-military flights per day wouldn't happen to be filled with Cheney's Halliburton buddies, would they?

 

[darkboong]

Good points, DB. Years of sanctions, bomb the **** out of them and then claim that things are getting better as you rebuild? They weren't likely to get a whole lot worse, were they? Those 20 non-military flights per day wouldn't happen to be filled with Cheney's Halliburton buddies, would they?

13/day *INCLUDING* military flights over the last year. Not much for the main airport in/out of Iraq.

 

[davidmc]

Dave : thanks for the link re that book you were telling us about earlier.

If you can get a copy of the book I quoted earlier, it's great reading.

I will investigate it. Right now I am reading one on Rousseau, one on the u.s. electoral college, & another on western/american civic info/responsibility.

 

[davidmc]

If I recall correctly, Yergin also created and narrated a series of TV episodes based around the book.

I believe that you are correct. I did'nt get to view it so I read the book.

 

[davidmc]

MW is just peak capacity, it's a measurement of the rate of flow. The key figure is MW-hours, ie : the amount of energy supplied. Reports are that Baghdad have less hours of electricity now.

Handy to have some peak in hand, but it comes down to sustaining it. Also note that the SH regime didn't have the option of refitting the main plants, the kit required was blocked by the sanctions.

Small change spread very thinly. 14.5m is a large fraction of the population of Iraq. The Coalition specifically targetted the sewage and water plants, and they were very successful in destroying them. Also keep in mind that a fair chunk of that $183m will be spent at 3-4x USA rates because it will be carried out by American companies employing foreign workers.

$183m will barely scratch the surface of the damage done by the war and sanctions. Where did the other $18bn for rebuilding infrastructure go ?

Maybe shouldn't have bombed them in the first place, huh ?

Handy, keeps the war machine supplied and the oil flowing - providing the resistance hasn't blown up the pipelines again. Those are the folks who don't want the war machine there of course (see Pape's recent study on Suicide Terrorism).

5000/365 = 13/day average. That's the main airport - which is most heavily used by the Coalition war machine traffic.

Couple of racks of switchgear, maybe even less these days... Big whup.

I know this post will come off as being a bit brusque, but in truth it is nice to see some good work has been done. In practice it is still trivial stuff in the light of the damage done and the security situation.

I get this funny feeling after reading your post, i don't know; call it intuition, that you will never come around to seeing anything positive resulting from SH's ouster Our civil war alone resulted in >500,000 casualties of our own people. Our generals, in the civil war, went to west point together. They didn't want to fight eachother but they did. General Lee's property, a stone's throw from Washington D.C. was confiscated by the Union/Federal's (U.S. Gov't) & turned into a cemetary for Union war dead. Nothing good comes w/o a price. I'm not devaluing any iraqi people but I would wager to say that regardless of the obvious hardships, there are more than a few iraqi's that are optimistic of the future. Eventually the u.s. will have to leave. Our people don't want to be there any more than the iraqi's want us there. They would much rather be based in germany or italy or spain or...