Why 15 sec for 5 sec peak power?...

[Terry Ferguson]

In The power book, the test procedure for for 5 min, 1 min and 5 sec power includes all-out efforts at 5 min, 1 min and 2x15 sec. Why 15 sec intervals for 5 sec power? - TF

 

[ZimboNC]

In The power book, the test procedure for for 5 min, 1 min and 5 sec power includes all-out efforts at 5 min, 1 min and 2x15 sec. Why 15 sec intervals for 5 sec power? - TF

I'm guessing it's because it takes a finite amount of time to ramp up to your 5-second maximum.

--Steve

 

[frenchyge]

My instantaneous peak is typically ~4-5 samples after the initial jump, then to look for a 5sec AP, I'd want at least 5 samples after that. That's about 12 sec on a PowerTap.

I guess you could save the last 3 seconds of effort, if you wanted to stay fresh.

 

[Terry Ferguson]

My instantaneous peak is typically ~4-5 samples after the initial jump, then to look for a 5sec AP, I'd want at least 5 samples after that. That's about 12 sec on a PowerTap.

I guess you could save the last 3 seconds of effort, if you wanted to stay fresh.

OK. Trying to actually do a 15 sec, I was compensating for that and doing 22-23 sec intervals. - TF

 

[frenchyge]

If I'm not practicing full-race sprints, I'll do about 20-30 kicks (each leg) and then shut 'er down. Seems like it ends up being about 12-17 seconds on average.

 

[bspurgeon]

Do you guys start this test rolling (what speed?) or from a dead stop?

 

[Billsworld]

I recall going over this with Acoggan, and I don think there are any rules for gearing speed etc.. Blast away for your best result. Top trackies can do starts from 0 in big gears and make huge power fast. mine is in the 110-130 range The 15 secs is most likely to get us mortals to that area??

 

[velomanct]

If you are sprinting like you SHOULD, you will be at peak power within the first 3 seconds. If this is not the case, do it again and again until you hit peak within the first 3 seconds. (This is assuming you are not starting in a massive gear)

Did I mention how much of an impact it makes to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE?
Yes, after doing tons of sprints you will learn much more about your abilities and how to maximize them.

When I look to get a good 5 second reading I put into the 53x15 and get up to high 20s mph on a false flat downhill leading into a small rise in the road, and NAIL it up the rise, accelerating. Total length of the sprint is 7-8 seconds.

Or, I will just look at a graph of a 100meter standing start, where I start in the 53x19 and shifted when needed.

By no means should it take more than 5 seconds to hit peak power. If that is the case, you are not going all out from the begining.

BTW, if you are not trying to break the pedals off your bike, you are not going hard enough.

 

[frenchyge]

If you are sprinting like you SHOULD, you will be at peak power within the first 3 seconds.

I guess that would depend on if you were *practicing sprints*, or doing the 5 sec max power testing that the OP was asking about.

(This is assuming you are not starting in a massive gear)

I typically start from a slow speed during workouts, so I do tend to be overgeared during the jump. Then again, my goal for these workouts is improving neuromuscular power, rather than practicing technique.

 

[Billsworld]

Ok, if you want to give tips on the best way to do a 5 sec sprint? I would as Chainsnapper says, and practice a bit. Choose a gear gear and speed that keeps you in your optimal range for 5 secs. That means one that you dont spin out too fast and are past where your capable of making power and not too overgeard so you power is gone by the time you hit your stride. I dont like the shift idea for 5 sec or 1 min. Find the right hill and gear and cadence range that is best.....Frenchie, hows that parachute working?

 

[shawndoggy]

...That means one that you dont spin out too fast and are past where your capable of making power and not too overgeard so you power is gone by the time you hit your stride. I dont like the shift idea for 5 sec or 1 min.

Part of learning to sprint well (but perhaps not perform a 5 second max power test) is being able to shift during the effort. The first part of the sprint, the jump, is generally done in a small gear that can be spun up easily. Then once out of the saddle and stomping, shift as necessary.

"As necessary" probably deserves a little explanation. One thing that new sprinters and folks with good 5s power but who don't actually win sprints frequently do is to get overgeared too soon. You need to be able to keep the cadence up. Clunking down 3 gears then going, well that telegraphs your intentions to the rest of the field, and it also makes for a slow separation from the folks around you. A high cadence jump, to gain separation, is much more effective. Then shift to get the rpms into your powerband. That generally ought to be 120+ rpms (at least from my racing experience and watching the pros... which also means that 99% of us will never spin out an 11).

I do my training sprints on a slight downhill that goes to flat. The descent simulates the high speed of a leadout, so I'm used to making the jump in the 15 or 16. When I hit the flat, it's out of the saddle and pounding for as long as possible (for me usually no more than 8 seconds).

Note that the above technique is for winning races, and not necessarily for winning the 5 second average power world championships. Might have to try the flat-to-roller super jump and see if I can make the PT go a little higher.

 

[Billsworld]

Part of learning to sprint well (but perhaps not perform a 5 second max power test) is being able to shift during the effort. The first part of the sprint, the jump, is generally done in a small gear that can be spun up easily. Then once out of the saddle and stomping, shift as necessary.

"As necessary" probably deserves a little explanation. One thing that new sprinters and folks with good 5s power but who don't actually win sprints frequently do is to get overgeared too soon. You need to be able to keep the cadence up. Clunking down 3 gears then going, well that telegraphs your intentions to the rest of the field, and it also makes for a slow separation from the folks around you. A high cadence jump, to gain separation, is much more effective. Then shift to get the rpms into your powerband. That generally ought to be 120+ rpms (at least from my racing experience and watching the pros... which also means that 99% of us will never spin out an 11).

I do my training sprints on a slight downhill that goes to flat. The descent simulates the high speed of a leadout, so I'm used to making the jump in the 15 or 16. When I hit the flat, it's out of the saddle and pounding for as long as possible (for me usually no more than 8 seconds).

Note that the above technique is for winning races, and not necessarily for winning the 5 second average power world championships. Might have to try the flat-to-roller super jump and see if I can make the PT go a little higher.

I was only talking about the tests. If I were to do a 1 min test, I would more than likely use a fixed . I would go about 50 rpm to the base of a long hill and hammer to about 110 and try to stay over 100. The 5 sec test I would use a slight downslope, roll out to about 100 and go. A normal spint for me will end in the 150-170 range. The test would be long over by then

 

[Orange Fish]

In The power book, the test procedure for for 5 min, 1 min and 5 sec power includes all-out efforts at 5 min, 1 min and 2x15 sec. Why 15 sec intervals for 5 sec power? - TF

2x15 sec for generating 5 sec power seems appropriate if you think about the Wingate Anaerobic Test. In that test, Peak Power is typically generated in the first 3-5 seconds, so if we're looking for peak 5 second power, then ramping up, starting, and reaching our initial peak power should take between 3-5 seconds, maintaining as much of that power as we can for 5 seconds, and spinning back down can easily take 15 seconds (5 seconds to peak, 5 second peak = 10 seconds).

The 15 seconds seems to be an appropriate duration to generate peak 5 second power.

 

[frenchyge]

which also means that 99% of us will never spin out an 11.

Heh. Yeah, I'd say that's probably true.

Note that the above technique is for winning races, and not necessarily for winning the 5 second average power world championships. Might have to try the flat-to-roller super jump and see if I can make the PT go a little higher.

The reason I made the distinction is because some people's 5sec power may be limited by their sprint technique, which could throw off their interpretation of their power profile. Jumping from an overgeared situation probably helps with that because the lower cadence gives them more time to coordinate arm and leg movements. FWIW, my 5sec power isn't really affected by going uphill, downhill, or riding at different speeds/gears, but that's because I've practiced my technique some.

 

[WarrenG]

I do my training sprints on a slight downhill that goes to flat. The descent simulates the high speed of a leadout, so I'm used to making the jump in the 15 or 16. When I hit the flat, it's out of the saddle and pounding for as long as possible (for me usually no more than 8 seconds).

Note that the above technique is for winning races, and not necessarily for winning the 5 second average power world championships. Might have to try the flat-to-roller super jump and see if I can make the PT go a little higher.

The slight downhill before the start is good for practicing mechanics, but when you sprint in a road event you don't get to do it from complete rest, leadout or not.

You're implying that practicing for the 5s world championships may not be worthwhile, I'd agree. Who cares what your perfectly executed 5s power is? How will that help you in an actual race? Looking for an ego boost to say your 5s power is x? Mine is near 1800 watts. I feel better now.

Just do your practice sprints however you think you want to do sprints, and then look at the sprint as a whole, and look at its parts so you can direct your training towards the parts of a real sprint that you think need improvement.

 

[frenchyge]

How will that help you in an actual race?

Let's take a look....

Mine is near 1800 watts.

Well, that seems very good, so you might be well suited to sitting in and trying to win from a pack sprint. OTOH, mine isn't anywhere near that high, so I don't rely on that approach as much.

See, that's how it helps someone plan for an actual race? For more details, see: http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

 

[WarrenG]

Let's take a look....


Well, that seems very good, so you might be well suited to sitting in and trying to win from a pack sprint. OTOH, mine isn't anywhere near that high, so I don't rely on that approach as much.

See, that's how it helps someone plan for an actual race? For more details, see: http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

How many races do you think it took for me to figure out that I have a decent jump from well-rested?

The problem with looking at an ability in isolation is that you're not considering all of what is relevant. How do you think my jump compares to that of other riders when I'm doing the jump from complete rest? Who cares? It's more relevant to examine my ability within the context of races since I'm not interested in getting a higher number on a chart, I'm interested in improving an ability during races.

How is my jump when there's been three attacks in the previous 6-7 minutes? How about at the end of a fast criterium? See, misleading information from that chart that is much more accurately learned in actual races (or possibly during certain training) by examining more of the relevant and contributing factors that affect one's 5s power.

IF you look at 5s power within an interval session that mimics at least some of, preferably most of your actual race conditions you'll learn more relevant information regarding your ability to accelerate quickly during racing conditions. You can track your 5s power during certain intervals/sprints from week to week to look at trends and effects of training, but this is quite different from performing a sprint from complete rest, and in a manner that is intended to produce your best possible 5s power.

So, I want to get better at jumps (5s power) during races. How do I measure changes in that ability?

 

[frenchyge]

How many races do you think it took for me to figure out that I have a decent jump from well-rested?

Well, you're the one who asked. I figured that *you* already knew what your strengths were, but the point was that the power profile can help a newbie discover their potential strengths/weaknesses with just a few short tests, instead of trying to weed through a year's worth of race results and the multitude of circumstances therein.

It helped me understand which tactics I was likely to have some success with, and then I practiced applying them in a race-specific way in order to get better. Without understanding my power profile, I'd probably still be applying the vanilla "sit in until the home stretch, then sprint" tactic, and wondering why my race results weren't getting any better.

 

[acoggan]

Well, that seems very good, so you might be well suited to sitting in and trying to win from a pack sprint.

Warren really doesn't have much choice: he's clearly a "fast twitcher", and lacks the aerobic abilities necessary to force a breakaway. Me, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum (which is patently clear from my power profile: only ~13 W/kg for 5 s, but ~4.5 W/kg at functional threshold power).

 

[acoggan]

Looking for an ego boost to say your 5s power is x? Mine is near 1800 watts. I feel better now.

You shouldn't: 18 W/kg really isn't all that high, even among fattie masters such as ourselves.