Classic Quotes by Typical Idiot Mountain Bikers

Mike Vandeman · Aug 20, 2003

"Wildlife needs to have a life cycle, which includes death" Jeffrey W. Ryan, mountain biker,
[email protected].
<q>"The Bible (KJV) clearly states that this earth is meant for us humans to use... or as it says to
'subdue' it and have 'dominion' over it and the animals here. I believe that to be true. Humans
have precidence over animals. The animals exist, as do the other components of the earth, for
us." John Morgan, [email protected], mountain biker
<r>"There really isn't any erosion," [Mark] Farriester [of Modesto] said. "Bicycles can't cause
erosion." Jim Haggen-Smit, California representative for the International Mountain Bicycling
Association, agreed. He said off-road trails and environmental protection can co-exist.
Haggen-Smit said he wants all parties to come together and help determine how to correctly build
dirt trails. He stressed the most important detail is to keep trails well maintained. The real
culprits of erosion, Haggen-Smit said, are water and bad maintenance.
<s>"I object to Pete Siemens' characterization of bicycles as vehicles. According to the State
Vehicle Code, bicycles are not vehicles, but are devices with all the rights and responsibilities
of vehicles. I would be happy to find the specific Code and submit them to the Board. Therefore,
I respectfully request that Pete Seimens retract his statements that bicycles are off-road
vehicles - they are not." Danielle Weber, DVM
<t>"We must learn to interact effectively with nature. By simply banning mountain biking, we are
avoiding a continual relationship with the natural environment. Mountain biking cannot be banned;
if so, future generations will no longer be able to experience the magnificent opportunities
awaiting them." Daniel Keefer [They can't WALK?!]
"By the way, theres a biological need for dead plants." Dennis Ouellette, mountain biker,
[email protected]
<v>"Remember, access is the is the whole point of our efforts" Jon Sundquist, East Aurora, NY,
mountain biker
<w>"Some riders are out there using their bikes to enjoy the open space, but others are just using
the open space to enjoy their bikes. This latter group tends to be the least informed about the
land, who owns it, who takes care of it, what lives there, and what damage can be caused by their
presence. Educating this group can be difficult, because they have little interest in the land to
begin with." Charles Jalgunas, [email protected]
<x>"Virtually all of Greater Boston's local bike shops depend upon Mountain Biking to stay afloat."
http://www.sharethefells.org/busines.htm
<y>"Bikers tend to blow by anything, however interesting, when they are enjoying a downhill run."
Dan Harrison ([email protected]), IMBA rep for Michigan
<z>"The majority of mountain bicyclists are not following a regulation or standard trail etiquette
guidelines", http://www.imba.com/resources/science/trail_etiquette.html
<z>"Hello, Nice web site. You've taken up a cause. You're fighting for your beliefs. You are saving
others from a certain horrible doom. What is this thing that will destroy our environment,
livelihood, and possibly take our lives? Is is HIV, cancer, or possibly mass starvation? No. Do
we fear blackouts, old age, or government corruption? No. What Evil lurks beneath the waters,
waiting to destroy all we hold dear? TRAIL RUTS!!!(Scary music playing in the background) OH NO!
Trail ruts! Erosion! SILT! How can we ever survive? What to do? What to do! Can't you people
worry about something important? Get a life." Mike Estvanic, [email protected]
<z>"Soil compaction? Mike, if mountain bikes are compacting the soil, then your recurring claims of
erosion must be unfounded. As a civil engineer with a concentration in soils engineering, I can
tell you that soil compaction and soil erosion are quite different and that if mountain bikes are
compacting the soil, they are not eroding it." Shaun Reid, [email protected]
<z>"Much as I'd like to disagree with Richard, his points are valid. I got to thinking about where I
like to hike and it's not on trails open to mountain biking. Mountain bikes are invasive;
they're fast, silent and the minority that rides like idiots is out there often enough to wreck
it for the hikers. Even if they don't see one each time out, having had a bad experience can make
them apprehensive and fearful. Hikers do need some trails that are not used by mountain bikes."
Mark Flint [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"It my perspective that hiking only trails retain the narrow back-coutry character as opposed to
the multi-use highways. This is what I want when I am backpacking. Trails with this character
should not have to be sacrificed for the sake of multi-use. As a trail maintainer, it is my first
hand experience that narrow single track gets widened by multi-use." Norm [email protected],
mountain biker
<z>"Unless activities involve mountain bikes and/or parks open to bikes, we do not get involved. We
use the trails and parks to enjoy our mountain bikes. We do not use our bikes to enjoy the
trails and parks. This is the source of 99% of our problems as a user group." Patty Ciesla,
mountain biker
<z>"Even if the trails close they will be still ridden there isn't enough monies in the budget of
any state to hire enough enforcement. So have your dreams but realize they are only that.
Hopefully some night while your dreaming your little dream you'll see me flying across the sky on
my bike kindly giving you a one finger salute!" [email protected]
<z>"MTB's allow many times more people to visit public lands then would without MTB's." Tom Kunich,
[email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Flowing 18" wide singletrack is fun. Straight, wide trails and most fireroads are boring,
especially when ridden under the posted speed limit." Ben, [email protected], mountain biker
<z>If anything, mountain biking is positive for the environment. When a person decides to go out and
mountain bike in nature, they are experienceing the beauty of nature in all it's aspects.
Mountain bikers gain a respect for nature. While they are riding they gain an appreciation for
nature. This appreciation is not present in a person who does not interact with nature in the
way a mountain biker does. People who interact with nature are often prone to being proactive
to save it. Such clothing manufacturers as Patagonia, who provide clothing for mountain bikers as
well as other outdoor sports, are extremely proactive in preserving an protecting the
environment. If more people became mountain bikers, then more people would truely understand
nature and be more willing to be proactive in preserving it." [email protected]
<z>"Personally, I won't ever support a wilderness area until the day mountain bikes are allowed to
use them". Anthony L. Cree, [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"I am an archaeologist for the US Forest Service, and an avid mt. biker. ... In my professional
capacity, I am constantly monitoring the effects human behavior has on archaeological resources.
What recreational activities damage them, and how can that damage be mitigated? As an advocate of
our sport in the Recreation section of our forest, I must at times painfully admit that
irresponsible mt. biking can damage fragile resources." Mark Martin, [email protected]
<z>"I don't like ... slowing down for hikers oblivious to their surroundings" ANTHONY CREE
<[email protected]>
<z>"For every one of us that do promote this sport responsibly there are probably 1000 idiots out
there". John Silva, [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Some people think I'm crazy to occasionally drive 180 miles to ride a mountain bike in Miami
Beach when we have so many great trails nearby but it's worth it." Bob Michaels
<[email protected]>
<z>"Yup Mikey, I do advocate riding where you feel you want. It is a right of everyone to ride on
this earth, and it is not for the Mike Vaderman's or the Senator Boxers to tell me what to do,
when to do it, or how to do it." [email protected]
<z>"It is a very significant flaw of the Wilderness act that it shuts out mountain bikers and
others" [HOW? Can't they WALK?!] John Gardiner [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Personally, I don't care if bears are disrupted. Why should I? Same goes for deer, squirrels,
mice and, of course, hikers. See, I have just as much right, as an inhabitant of this planet and
so long as that use is within the parameters of the law, to use its resources as I see fit.
Bears, squirrels, mice and hikers be damned. This is one of the advantages of being at the top of
the food chain -- everything else either has to adapt to us being there or die. If they opt for
death, well, that's natural selection, isn't it." Ken B [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"I also loved my Henery [sic] Coe ride because it too had not only challenging terrain with steep
decents, but no people (I saw five outside of the three of us ridding [sic]) so I could push it
as far as I wanted and still not worry about other trail folk." Sean Thorniley, [email protected]
<z>"By the way, I find it hard to dispute the notion that there are sensitive areas that should see
no bikes, dogs or horses. Some that should see no humans, especially since we tend to show up in
huge Vibram-soled swarms." Tom Hays, [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"We're no different than any other group when it comes to having our share of closed minds" [to
say the least!] Mark Flint <[email protected]>
<z>"The more singletrack the better, I'm not too hot on climbing on fireroads." Nicolas Pottier
[email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Hello ... my name is Tews and I'm a singletrack addict." [email protected]
<z>"Sometimes you just gotta say, 'Screw the rules!'" [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Sometimes 'don't ask/don't tell' is appropriate with respect to trail access. If you ask, they
may put up signs forbidding bikes

" J Savic [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"Yeah, try to catch me." MTBguy, http://www.mtbguy.ca/rigaud.htm
<z>"Until young people of my mindset, that would be a fair mindset by the way, come into power on
the local and federal level, I will continue to ride 'illegally'." Rob Frank, mountain biker
<z>"If there's anybody that reaches the depths of trails and such, it's mountain bikers. Trekking by
foot is so bloody boring." [email protected], mountain biker
<z>"This species [mountain bikers] has one thing in common with horses-- blinders." Susan Sievert
<z>"I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride my bike I want to ride my bi--cy--cle I want
to ride it where I like!" Patty "caught red-handed re-opening a closed trail" Ciesla
[email protected], mountain biker 

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

John Morgan · Aug 21, 2003

Hey I made the "Best Of" list! Yes!!

lol.. that was over two years ago, he must have a sophisticated archiving system to store all the
hate mail he receives. I'm afraid I've long since been added to his Idiot Filter(tm) though.

-John Morgan

The Muncher · Aug 21, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:18:40 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Wildlife needs to have a life cycle, which includes death" Jeffrey W. Ryan, mountain biker,
> [email protected].
>"The Bible (KJV) clearly states that this earth is meant for us humans to use... or as it says
> to 'subdue' it and have 'dominion' over it and the animals here. I believe that to be true.
> Humans have precidence over animals. The animals exist, as do the other components of the earth,
> for us." John Morgan, [email protected], mountain biker
>"There really isn't any erosion," [Mark] Farriester [of Modesto] said. "Bicycles can't cause
> erosion." Jim Haggen-Smit, California representative for the International Mountain Bicycling
> Association, agreed. He said off-road trails and environmental protection can co-exist.
> Haggen-Smit said he wants all parties to come together and help determine how to correctly build
> dirt trails. He stressed the most important detail is to keep trails well maintained. The real
> culprits of erosion, Haggen-Smit said, are water and bad maintenance.
>"I object to Pete Siemens' characterization of bicycles as vehicles. According to the State
> Vehicle Code, bicycles are not vehicles, but are devices with all the rights and
> responsibilities of vehicles. I would be happy to find the specific Code and submit them to the
> Board. Therefore, I respectfully request that Pete Seimens retract his statements that bicycles
> are off-road vehicles - they are not." Danielle Weber, DVM
>"We must learn to interact effectively with nature. By simply banning mountain biking, we are
> avoiding a continual relationship with the natural environment. Mountain biking cannot be
> banned; if so, future generations will no longer be able to experience the magnificent
> opportunities awaiting them." Daniel Keefer [They can't WALK?!]
>"By the way, theres a biological need for dead plants." Dennis Ouellette, mountain biker,
> [email protected]
>"Remember, access is the is the whole point of our efforts" Jon Sundquist, East Aurora, NY,
> mountain biker
>"Some riders are out there using their bikes to enjoy the open space, but others are just using
> the open space to enjoy their bikes. This latter group tends to be the least informed about the
> land, who owns it, who takes care of it, what lives there, and what damage can be caused by
> their presence. Educating this group can be difficult, because they have little interest in the
> land to begin with." Charles Jalgunas, [email protected]
>"Virtually all of Greater Boston's local bike shops depend upon Mountain Biking to stay afloat."
> http://www.sharethefells.org/busines.htm
>"Bikers tend to blow by anything, however interesting, when they are enjoying a downhill run."
> Dan Harrison ([email protected]), IMBA rep for Michigan
>"The majority of mountain bicyclists are not following a regulation or standard trail etiquette
> guidelines", http://www.imba.com/resources/science/trail_etiquette.html
>"Hello, Nice web site. You've taken up a cause. You're fighting for your beliefs. You are saving
> others from a certain horrible doom. What is this thing that will destroy our environment,
> livelihood, and possibly take our lives? Is is HIV, cancer, or possibly mass starvation? No. Do
> we fear blackouts, old age, or government corruption? No. What Evil lurks beneath the waters,
> waiting to destroy all we hold dear? TRAIL RUTS!!!(Scary music playing in the background) OH NO!
> Trail ruts! Erosion! SILT! How can we ever survive? What to do? What to do! Can't you people
> worry about something important? Get a life." Mike Estvanic, [email protected]
>"Soil compaction? Mike, if mountain bikes are compacting the soil, then your recurring claims of
> erosion must be unfounded. As a civil engineer with a concentration in soils engineering, I can
> tell you that soil compaction and soil erosion are quite different and that if mountain bikes
> are compacting the soil, they are not eroding it." Shaun Reid, [email protected]
>"Much as I'd like to disagree with Richard, his points are valid. I got to thinking about where
> I like to hike and it's not on trails open to mountain biking. Mountain bikes are
> invasive; they're fast, silent and the minority that rides like idiots is out there often enough
> to wreck it for the hikers. Even if they don't see one each time out, having had a bad
> experience can make them apprehensive and fearful. Hikers do need some trails that are not used
> by mountain bikes." Mark Flint [email protected], mountain biker
>"It my perspective that hiking only trails retain the narrow back-coutry character as opposed to
> the multi-use highways. This is what I want when I am backpacking. Trails with this character
> should not have to be sacrificed for the sake of multi-use. As a trail maintainer, it is my
> first hand experience that narrow single track gets widened by multi-use." Norm
> [email protected], mountain biker
>"Unless activities involve mountain bikes and/or parks open to bikes, we do not get involved. We
> use the trails and parks to enjoy our mountain bikes. We do not use our bikes to enjoy the
> trails and parks. This is the source of 99% of our problems as a user group." Patty Ciesla,
> mountain biker
>"Even if the trails close they will be still ridden there isn't enough monies in the budget of
> any state to hire enough enforcement. So have your dreams but realize they are only that.
> Hopefully some night while your dreaming your little dream you'll see me flying across the sky
> on my bike kindly giving you a one finger salute!" [email protected]
>"MTB's allow many times more people to visit public lands then would without MTB's." Tom Kunich,
> [email protected], mountain biker
>"Flowing 18" wide singletrack is fun. Straight, wide trails and most fireroads are boring,
> especially when ridden under the posted speed limit." Ben, [email protected], mountain biker
>If anything, mountain biking is positive for the environment. When a person decides to go out
> and mountain bike in nature, they are experienceing the beauty of nature in all it's aspects.
> Mountain bikers gain a respect for nature. While they are riding they gain an appreciation for
> nature. This appreciation is not present in a person who does not interact with nature in the
> way a mountain biker does. People who interact with nature are often prone to being
> proactive to save it. Such clothing manufacturers as Patagonia, who provide clothing for
> mountain bikers as well as other outdoor sports, are extremely proactive in preserving an
> protecting the environment. If more people became mountain bikers, then more people would truely
> understand nature and be more willing to be proactive in preserving it."
> [email protected]
>"Personally, I won't ever support a wilderness area until the day mountain bikes are allowed to
> use them". Anthony L. Cree, [email protected], mountain biker
>"I am an archaeologist for the US Forest Service, and an avid mt. biker. ... In my professional
> capacity, I am constantly monitoring the effects human behavior has on archaeological resources.
> What recreational activities damage them, and how can that damage be mitigated? As an advocate
> of our sport in the Recreation section of our forest, I must at times painfully admit that
> irresponsible mt. biking can damage fragile resources." Mark Martin, [email protected]
>"I don't like ... slowing down for hikers oblivious to their surroundings" ANTHONY CREE
> <[email protected]>
>"For every one of us that do promote this sport responsibly there are probably 1000 idiots out
> there". John Silva, [email protected], mountain biker
>"Some people think I'm crazy to occasionally drive 180 miles to ride a mountain bike in Miami
> Beach when we have so many great trails nearby but it's worth it." Bob Michaels
> <[email protected]>
>"Yup Mikey, I do advocate riding where you feel you want. It is a right of everyone to ride on
> this earth, and it is not for the Mike Vaderman's or the Senator Boxers to tell me what to do,
> when to do it, or how to do it." [email protected]
>"It is a very significant flaw of the Wilderness act that it shuts out mountain bikers and
> others" [HOW? Can't they WALK?!] John Gardiner [email protected], mountain biker
>"Personally, I don't care if bears are disrupted. Why should I? Same goes for deer, squirrels,
> mice and, of course, hikers. See, I have just as much right, as an inhabitant of this planet
> and so long as that use is within the parameters of the law, to use its resources as I see
> fit. Bears, squirrels, mice and hikers be damned. This is one of the advantages of being at
> the top of the food chain -- everything else either has to adapt to us being there or die. If
> they opt for death, well, that's natural selection, isn't it." Ken B [email protected],
> mountain biker
>"I also loved my Henery [sic] Coe ride because it too had not only challenging terrain with
> steep decents, but no people (I saw five outside of the three of us ridding [sic]) so I could
> push it as far as I wanted and still not worry about other trail folk." Sean Thorniley,
> [email protected]
>"By the way, I find it hard to dispute the notion that there are sensitive areas that should see
> no bikes, dogs or horses. Some that should see no humans, especially since we tend to show up in
> huge Vibram-soled swarms." Tom Hays, [email protected], mountain biker
>"We're no different than any other group when it comes to having our share of closed minds" [to
> say the least!] Mark Flint <[email protected]>
>"The more singletrack the better, I'm not too hot on climbing on fireroads." Nicolas Pottier
> [email protected], mountain biker
>"Hello ... my name is Tews and I'm a singletrack addict." [email protected]
>"Sometimes you just gotta say, 'Screw the rules!'" [email protected], mountain biker
>"Sometimes 'don't ask/don't tell' is appropriate with respect to trail access. If you ask, they
> may put up signs forbidding bikes

" J Savic [email protected], mountain biker
>"Yeah, try to catch me." MTBguy, http://www.mtbguy.ca/rigaud.htm
>"Until young people of my mindset, that would be a fair mindset by the way, come into power on
> the local and federal level, I will continue to ride 'illegally'." Rob Frank, mountain biker
>"If there's anybody that reaches the depths of trails and such, it's mountain bikers. Trekking
> by foot is so bloody boring." [email protected], mountain biker
>"This species [mountain bikers] has one thing in common with horses-- blinders." Susan Sievert
>"I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride my bike I want to ride my bi--cy--cle I want
> to ride it where I like!" Patty "caught red-handed re-opening a closed trail" Ciesla
> [email protected], mountain biker 
>
>===
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Hey Mike,

do you also bomb abortion clinics, have a shack in Montana where you mail out letter bombs, and join
the impoverished Muslims in a Islamic Jihad against the West?

You seem to be an intelligent person; why the, the inflammatory remarks toward mountain bikers? Did
you have a bad experience in the woods whilst growing up? Perhaps a scene out of the movie
Deliverance rings a bell?

I am all for protecting the environment--that means riding responsibly and no littering. If you want
to be a purist, then perhaps you should also shun many of the modern amenities and
conveniences--computer products that, in the manufacture of, produce toxic byproducts that poisoin
the environment. Do you wear glasses? Well, where does the plastic come from? Do you buy food at the
grocery store, or do you hunt for your food?

Instead of bashing mountain biking, why not educate and help others understand what you may know?

The Muncher · Aug 21, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:50:43 GMT, The Muncher <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:18:40 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
>
>>"Hello, Nice web site. You've taken up a cause. You're fighting for your beliefs. You are
>> saving others from a certain horrible doom. What is this thing that will destroy our
>> environment, livelihood, and possibly take our lives? Is is HIV, cancer, or possibly mass
>> starvation? No. Do we fear blackouts, old age, or government corruption? No. What Evil lurks
>> beneath the waters, waiting to destroy all we hold dear? TRAIL RUTS!!!(Scary music playing in
>> the background) OH NO! Trail ruts! Erosion! SILT! How can we ever survive? What to do? What to
>> do! Can't you people worry about something important? Get a life." Mike Estvanic,
>> [email protected] < access. If you ask, they may put up signs forbidding bikes

" J Savic
>
>>re-opening a closed trail" Ciesla [email protected], mountain biker ...blah blah blah
>>blah blah...
>>===
>>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>>help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
>
>
>Hey Mike,
>
>do you also bomb abortion clinics, have a shack in Montana where you mail out letter bombs, and
>join the impoverished Muslims in a Islamic Jihad against the West?
>
>You seem to be an intelligent person; why the, the inflammatory remarks toward mountain bikers? Did
>you have a bad experience in the woods whilst growing up? Perhaps a scene out of the movie
>Deliverance rings a bell?
>
>I am all for protecting the environment--that means riding responsibly and no littering. If you
>want to be a purist, then perhaps you should also shun many of the modern amenities and
>conveniences--computer products that, in the manufacture of, produce toxic byproducts that poisoin
>the environment. Do you wear glasses? Well, where does the plastic come from? Do you buy food at
>the grocery store, or do you hunt for your food?
>
>Instead of bashing mountain biking, why not educate and help others understand what you may know?
>

Ugh, I just read some of the other posts and other threads that Mike has generated--and can't
believe I fell for this TROLL thread! Well, anyhow, Mike, if it makes you happy, I will think of you
the next time I'm on my weekly mountain bike ride--rubber on the dirt trail squashing little animals
and insects beneath me. Oh bye the way, thanks to your mindless, incendiary posts and flames, I have
re-dedicated myself towards further land development, the urban sprawl, and heavier use of mountain
bike trails and their development. I hope you sleep a little less soundly knowing that YOU have had
the opposite intended effect on so many of us on this board...

ps I'm adding you to my filter list after this...

Mark Hainsworth · Aug 21, 2003

I added him to my ignore list ages ago....god...he's so annoying

Mike L. · Aug 21, 2003

Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

<SNIP!><PLONK!>

This Mike Vandeman is no different than any of the other similar jackasses you'll find in virtually
every popular newsgroup. Pick any single popular newsgroup at random and you're sure to find at
least one person who will be in there solely to disrupt, bash, trash, flame, or use it as a forum to
spout a single maniacal opinion of either hatred for that subject, the people in it, or why things
should be done their way only. Of course they're always right in their knowledge of things and
opinions and everybody else is wrong, naïve, or just plain stupid if they don't agree with their
opinions. One can have some small amount of pity for this Mike Vandeman, for he must be a very
lonely person with no real friends and far too much time to devote to anti-social causes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I ride my mountain bike because it's something I love to do. I don't ride my bike to impress anyone,
to compete with anyone, to race with anyone, or to prove anything to anyone. I don't ride my bike
with any deliberate intent of malice to hurt, destroy, or injure anything be it human or animal.*
When I ride my bike I don't care how long it takes me to get somewhere no matter if it's one mile or
one hundred. Over the years I've had some incredible adventures while riding. I've met a lot of
fellow mountain bikers that are good, decent, people that didn't hesitate to stop and ask if
everything was all right even if I was just taking a short rest or walking just to give my legs a
little stretch. Though on at least one occasion their kindness and assistance was more than welcomed
when I had a serious problem and was far from home. I return that kindness whenever I can, and I've
made some good friends in the process. I ride my mountain bike because it's something I love to do,
and no goddamn smelly dope smoking tree hugging hippies can persuade me by any means that it's a bad
thing in any way to be doing.

Mike L.

*In 15+ years of riding both road and trail I've had only one incident where I collided with nature
and the results weren't pretty. I'll go out of my way to avoid such things and more than once I
dumped out to spare nature. But you know, every once in a while you just gotta say "Look the F***
out nature I'm comin' through!".

Andy Chequer · Aug 21, 2003

Are you insinuating the Freddie Mercury was a freerider?

Andy Chequer

ireman_1 · Aug 21, 2003

Muncher,

Don't argue with this fool. You might cause him to get so angry he starts shaking and spills bong water on the carpet, sending him into a rage and causing him to beat his wife and kids. Have a heart man!;-(

K.

The Muncher · Aug 23, 2003

On 22 Aug 2003 16:33:36 +0950, ireman_1 <[email protected]> wrote:

>Muncher,
>
>Don't argue with this fool. You might cause him to get so angry he starts shaking and spills bong
>water on the carpet, sending him into a rage and causing him to beat his wife and kids. Have a
>heart man!;-(
>
>K.

I know...but you made one very large assumption: that this guy is married. What woman would want to
put up with all that sh!t?

Mike Vandeman · Aug 23, 2003

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:36:33 -0700, "John Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote:

.Hey I made the "Best Of" list! Yes!! . .lol.. that was over two years ago, he must have a
sophisticated archiving .system to store all the hate mail he receives. I'm afraid I've long since
.been added to his Idiot Filter(tm) though.

... for obvious reasons.

.-John Morgan .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman · Aug 23, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:50:43 GMT, The Muncher <[email protected]> wrote:

.On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:18:40 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> .wrote: . .>"Wildlife
needs to have a life cycle, which includes death" Jeffrey W. .>Ryan, mountain biker,
[email protected]. .>"The Bible (KJV) clearly states that this earth is meant for us
.>humans to use... or as it says to 'subdue' it and have 'dominion' over it .>and the animals here.
I believe that to be true. Humans have precidence .>over animals. The animals exist, as do the other
components of the earth, .>for us." John Morgan, [email protected], mountain biker .> .>"There
really isn't any erosion," [Mark] Farriester [of Modesto] said. "Bicycles .>can't cause erosion."
Jim Haggen-Smit, California representative for the .>International Mountain Bicycling Association,
agreed. He said off-road trails .>and environmental protection can co-exist. Haggen-Smit said he
wants all parties .>to come together and help determine how to correctly build dirt trails. He
.>stressed the most important detail is to keep trails well maintained. The real .>culprits of
erosion, Haggen-Smit said, are water and bad maintenance. .> .>"I object to Pete Siemens'
characterization of bicycles as vehicles. According .>to the State Vehicle Code, bicycles are not
vehicles, but are devices with all .>the rights and responsibilities of vehicles. I would be happy
to find the .>specific Code and submit them to the Board. Therefore, I respectfully request .>that
Pete Seimens retract his statements that bicycles are off-road vehicles - .>they are not." Danielle
Weber, DVM .>"We must learn to interact effectively with nature. By simply banning .>mountain
biking, we are avoiding a continual relationship with the natural .>environment. Mountain biking
cannot be banned; if so, future generations will no .>longer be able to experience the magnificent
opportunities awaiting them." .>Daniel Keefer [They can't WALK?!] .>"By the way, theres a
biological need for dead plants." .>Dennis Ouellette, mountain biker, [email protected]
.>"Remember, access is the is the whole point of our efforts" Jon Sundquist, .>East Aurora, NY,
mountain biker .>"Some riders are out there using their bikes to enjoy the open space, but
.>others are just using the open space to enjoy their bikes. This latter group .>tends to be the
least informed about the land, who owns it, who takes care of .>it, what lives there, and what
damage can be caused by their presence. Educating .>this group can be difficult, because they have
little interest in the land to .>begin with." Charles Jalgunas, [email protected]
.>"Virtually all of Greater Boston's local bike shops depend upon Mountain .>Biking to stay
afloat." http://www.sharethefells.org/busines.htm .>"Bikers tend to blow by anything, however
interesting, when they are enjoying .>a downhill run." Dan Harrison ([email protected]), IMBA rep
for Michigan .>"The majority of mountain bicyclists are not following a regulation or .>standard
trail etiquette guidelines", .>http://www.imba.com/resources/science/trail_etiquette.html
.>"Hello, Nice web site. You've taken up a cause. You're fighting for your .>beliefs. You are
saving others from a certain horrible doom. What is this thing .>that will destroy our environment,
livelihood, and possibly take our lives? Is .>is HIV, cancer, or possibly mass starvation? No. Do we
fear blackouts, old age, .>or government corruption? No. What Evil lurks beneath the waters, waiting
to .>destroy all we hold dear? TRAIL RUTS!!!(Scary music playing in the background) .>OH NO! Trail
ruts! Erosion! SILT! How can we ever survive? What to do? What to .>do! Can't you people worry about
something important? Get a life." Mike .>Estvanic, [email protected] .>"Soil compaction? Mike,
if mountain bikes are compacting the soil, then your .>recurring claims of erosion must be
unfounded. As a civil engineer with a .>concentration in soils engineering, I can tell you that soil
compaction and soil .>erosion are quite different and that if mountain bikes are compacting the
soil, .>they are not eroding it." Shaun Reid, [email protected] .> .>"Much as I'd like to
disagree with Richard, his points are valid. I got to .>thinking about where I like to hike and it's
not on trails open to mountain .>biking. Mountain bikes are invasive; they're fast, silent
and the .>minority that rides like idiots is out there often enough to wreck it for the .>hikers.
Even if they don't see one each time out, having had a bad experience .>can make them apprehensive
and fearful. Hikers do need some trails that are not .>used by mountain bikes." Mark Flint
[email protected], mountain biker .> .>"It my perspective that hiking only trails retain
the narrow back-coutry .>character as opposed to the multi-use highways. This is what I want when I
am .>backpacking. Trails with this character should not have to be sacrificed for the .>sake of
multi-use. As a trail maintainer, it is my first hand experience that .>narrow single track gets
widened by multi-use." Norm [email protected], mountain .>biker .>"Unless activities involve
mountain bikes and/or parks open to bikes, we do .>not get involved. We use the trails and parks to
enjoy our mountain bikes. We do .>not use our bikes to enjoy the trails and parks. This is the
source of 99% of .>our problems as a user group." Patty Ciesla, mountain biker .>"Even if the
trails close they will be still ridden there isn't enough monies .>in the budget of any state to
hire enough enforcement. So have your dreams but .>realize they are only that. Hopefully some night
while your dreaming your little .>dream you'll see me flying across the sky on my bike kindly giving
you a one .>finger salute!" [email protected] .>"MTB's allow many times more people to visit
public lands then would without .>MTB's." Tom Kunich, [email protected], mountain biker
.>"Flowing 18" wide singletrack is fun. Straight, wide trails and most .>fireroads are boring,
especially when ridden under the posted speed limit." Ben, .>[email protected], mountain biker .>If
anything, mountain biking is positive for the environment. When a person .>decides to go out and
mountain bike in nature, they are experienceing the beauty .>of nature in all it's aspects. Mountain
bikers gain a respect for nature. While .>they are riding they gain an appreciation for nature.
This appreciation is .>not present in a person who does not interact with nature in the way a
mountain .>biker does. People who interact with nature are often prone to being .>proactive to
save it. Such clothing manufacturers as Patagonia, who provide .>clothing for mountain bikers as
well as other outdoor sports, are extremely .>proactive in preserving an protecting the environment.
If more people became .>mountain bikers, then more people would truely understand nature and be more
.>willing to be proactive in preserving it." [email protected] .>"Personally, I won't ever
support a wilderness area until the day mountain .>bikes are allowed to use them". Anthony L. Cree,
[email protected], mountain .>biker .>"I am an archaeologist for the US Forest Service, and an
avid mt. .>biker. ... In my professional capacity, I am constantly monitoring the effects .>human
behavior has on archaeological resources. What recreational activities .>damage them, and how can
that damage be mitigated? As an advocate of our sport .>in the Recreation section of our forest, I
must at times painfully admit that .>irresponsible mt. biking can damage fragile resources." Mark
Martin, .>[email protected] .>"I don't like ... slowing down for hikers oblivious to their
surroundings" .>ANTHONY CREE <[email protected]> .>"For every one of us that do promote this
sport responsibly there are .>probably 1000 idiots out there". John Silva, [email protected],
mountain .>biker .>"Some people think I'm crazy to occasionally drive 180 miles to ride a
.>mountain bike in Miami Beach when we have so many great trails nearby but it's .>worth it." Bob
Michaels <[email protected]> .>"Yup Mikey, I do advocate riding where you feel you want. It is
a right of .>everyone to ride on this earth, and it is not for the Mike Vaderman's or the .>Senator
Boxers to tell me what to do, when to do it, or how to do it." .>[email protected] .>"It is a
very significant flaw of the Wilderness act that it shuts out .>mountain bikers and others" [HOW?
Can't they WALK?!] John Gardiner .>[email protected], mountain biker .>"Personally, I don't
care if bears are disrupted. Why should I? Same .>goes for deer, squirrels, mice and, of course,
hikers. See, I have .>just as much right, as an inhabitant of this planet and so long as .>that use
is within the parameters of the law, to use its resources as .>I see fit. Bears, squirrels, mice and
hikers be damned. This is one of .>the advantages of being at the top of the food chain --
everything .>else either has to adapt to us being there or die. If they opt for .>death, well,
that's natural selection, isn't it." Ken B [email protected], .>mountain biker .>"I also
loved my Henery [sic] Coe ride because it too had not only .>challenging terrain with steep decents,
but no people (I saw five outside of the .>three of us ridding [sic]) so I could push it as far as I
wanted and still not .>worry about other trail folk." Sean Thorniley, [email protected] .>"By the
way, I find it hard to dispute the notion that there are sensitive .>areas that should see no bikes,
dogs or horses. Some that should see no .>humans, especially since we tend to show up in huge
Vibram-soled swarms." Tom .>Hays, [email protected], mountain biker .>"We're no different than
any other group when it comes to having our share of .>closed minds" [to say the least!] Mark Flint
<[email protected]> .>"The more singletrack the better, I'm not too hot on climbing on
fireroads." .>Nicolas Pottier [email protected], mountain biker .>"Hello ... my name is Tews
and I'm a singletrack addict." [email protected] .>"Sometimes you just gotta say, 'Screw the
rules!'" [email protected], .>mountain biker .>"Sometimes 'don't ask/don't tell' is
appropriate with respect to trail .>access. If you ask, they may put up signs forbidding bikes

" J
Savic .>[email protected], mountain biker .>"Yeah, try to catch me." MTBguy,
http://www.mtbguy.ca/rigaud.htm .>"Until young people of my mindset, that would be a fair mindset
by the way, .>come into power on the local and federal level, I will continue to ride
.>'illegally'." Rob Frank, mountain biker .>"If there's anybody that reaches the depths of trails
and such, it's mountain .>bikers. Trekking by foot is so bloody boring." [email protected], mountain
biker .>"This species [mountain bikers] has one thing in common with horses-- .>blinders." Susan
Sievert .>"I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride my bike I want to ride my
.>bi--cy--cle I want to ride it where I like!" Patty "caught red-handed .>re-opening a closed
trail" Ciesla [email protected], mountain biker .> .> .>=== .>I am working on creating
wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .>humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 .>years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .>
.>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . . . .Hey Mike, . .do you also bomb abortion clinics, have a
shack in Montana where you .mail out letter bombs, and join the impoverished Muslims in a Islamic
.Jihad against the West? . .You seem to be an intelligent person; why the, the inflammatory .remarks
toward mountain bikers?

WHAT "inflammatory remark"? I just tell the truth, something you should try.

Did you have a bad experience in the .woods whilst growing up? Perhaps a scene out of the movie
Deliverance .rings a bell? . .I am all for protecting the environment--that means riding
responsibly .and no littering. If you want to be a purist, then perhaps you should .also shun many
of the modern amenities and conveniences--computer .products that, in the manufacture of, produce
toxic byproducts that .poisoin the environment. Do you wear glasses? Well, where does the .plastic
come from? Do you buy food at the grocery store, or do you .hunt for your food? . .Instead of
bashing mountain biking, why not educate and help others .understand what you may know?

I do, which is why I post here, even though mountain bikers appear to be unteachable.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman · Aug 23, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:04:31 GMT, The Muncher <[email protected]> wrote:

.On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:50:43 GMT, The Muncher .<[email protected]> wrote: . .>On Thu, 21
Aug 2003 05:18:40 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> .> .>>"Hello, Nice web site. You've
taken up a cause. You're fighting for your .>>beliefs. You are saving others from a certain horrible
doom. What is this thing .>>that will destroy our environment, livelihood, and possibly take our
lives? Is .>>is HIV, cancer, or possibly mass starvation? No. Do we fear blackouts, old age, .>>or
government corruption? No. What Evil lurks beneath the waters, waiting to .>>destroy all we hold
dear? TRAIL RUTS!!!(Scary music playing in the background) .>>OH NO! Trail ruts! Erosion! SILT! How
can we ever survive? What to do? What to .>>do! Can't you people worry about something important?
Get a life." Mike .>>Estvanic, [email protected] .>>< .>>access. If you ask, they may put up signs
forbidding bikes

" J Savic .> .>>re-opening a closed trail" Ciesla [email protected], mountain
biker .>> .>>...blah blah blah blah blah... .>>=== .>>I am working on creating wildlife habitat
that is off-limits to .>>humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .>>years
fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .>> .>>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .> .>
.>Hey Mike, .> .>do you also bomb abortion clinics, have a shack in Montana where you .>mail out
letter bombs, and join the impoverished Muslims in a Islamic .>Jihad against the West? .> .>You seem
to be an intelligent person; why the, the inflammatory .>remarks toward mountain bikers? Did you
have a bad experience in the .>woods whilst growing up? Perhaps a scene out of the movie Deliverance
.>rings a bell? .> .>I am all for protecting the environment--that means riding responsibly .>and no
littering. If you want to be a purist, then perhaps you should .>also shun many of the modern
amenities and conveniences--computer .>products that, in the manufacture of, produce toxic
byproducts that .>poisoin the environment. Do you wear glasses? Well, where does the .>plastic come
from? Do you buy food at the grocery store, or do you .>hunt for your food? .> .>Instead of bashing
mountain biking, why not educate and help others .>understand what you may know? .> . . .Ugh, I just
read some of the other posts and other threads that Mike .has generated--and can't believe I fell
for this TROLL thread! Well, .anyhow, Mike, if it makes you happy, I will think of you the next time
.I'm on my weekly mountain bike ride--rubber on the dirt trail .squashing little animals and insects
beneath me. Oh bye the way, .thanks to your mindless, incendiary posts and flames, I have
.re-dedicated myself towards further land development, the urban .sprawl, and heavier use of
mountain bike trails and their development. .I hope you sleep a little less soundly knowing that YOU
have had the .opposite intended effect on so many of us on this board...

Thanks for demonstrating just how belligerent and irresponsible mountain bikers are. You are really
helping your cause....

.ps I'm adding you to my filter list after this...

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman · Aug 23, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:07:39 GMT, "Mark Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote:

.I added him to my ignore list ages ago....god...he's so annoying

The truth IS annoying and inconvenient, isn't it?

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman · Aug 23, 2003

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:16:28 -0000, "Mike L." <notmy@email> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in .news:[email protected]: .
.<SNIP!><PLONK!> . .This Mike Vandeman is no different than any of the other similar .jackasses
you'll find in virtually every popular newsgroup. Pick any .single popular newsgroup at random and
you're sure to find at least one .person who will be in there solely to disrupt, bash, trash, flame,
or use .it as a forum to spout a single maniacal opinion of either hatred for .that subject, the
people in it, or why things should be done their way .only. Of course they're always right in their
knowledge of things and .opinions and everybody else is wrong, naïve, or just plain stupid if they
.don't agree with their opinions.

If you think I am wrong, quote even ONE statement that you think is wrong, and say why. You are
wasting everyone's time talking about ME, when this newsgroup is about MOUNTAN BIKING! DUH!

One can have some small amount of pity .for this Mike Vandeman, for he must be a very lonely person
with no real .friends and far too much time to devote to anti-social causes. .
.----------------------------------------------------------------- . .I ride my mountain bike
because it's something I love to do. I don't ride .my bike to impress anyone, to compete with
anyone, to race with anyone, .or to prove anything to anyone. I don't ride my bike with any
deliberate .intent of malice to hurt, destroy, or injure anything be it human or .animal.*

No one ever said that the damage mountain bikers do is DELIBERATE. We know you are just ignorant.

When I ride my bike I don't care how long it takes me to get .somewhere no matter if it's one mile
or one hundred. Over the years I've .had some incredible adventures while riding. I've met a lot of
fellow .mountain bikers that are good, decent, people that didn't hesitate to .stop and ask if
everything was all right even if I was just taking a .short rest or walking just to give my legs a
little stretch. Though on at .least one occasion their kindness and assistance was more than
welcomed .when I had a serious problem and was far from home. I return that .kindness whenever I
can, and I've made some good friends in the process. .I ride my mountain bike because it's
something I love to do, and no .goddamn smelly dope smoking tree hugging hippies can persuade me by
any .means that it's a bad thing in any way to be doing.

Especially since you don't know the first thing about wildlife, conservation, or the harm that you
are doing.

.Mike L. . .*In 15+ years of riding both road and trail I've had only one incident .where I collided
with nature and the results weren't pretty. I'll go out .of my way to avoid such things and more
than once I dumped out to spare .nature. But you know, every once in a while you just gotta say
"Look the .F*** out nature I'm comin' through!".

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Sohn · Aug 23, 2003

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:50:43 GMT, The Muncher > wrote:
>
> .On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:18:40 GMT, Mike Vandeman > .wrote:
<snip excessive quoting>

.Instead of bashing mountain biking, why not educate and help others
> .understand what you may know?
>
> I do, which is why I post here, even though mountain bikers appear to be unteachable.
<snip>

Do the rest of the inhabitants of the world a favor by researching and educating yourself in
regards to Asperger Syndrome. Here's link you can start with http://www.autism.org/asperger.html
.After you have thoroughly educated yourself about Asperger's Syndrome, also know as Geek's
Syndrome, seek professional help. Good Luck BTW I don't ride a mountain bike.

ireman_1 · Aug 23, 2003

Muncher,
You are right, but I guess it was the optomist in me hoping someone would take him in and try to calm him down. You know, give him a hoby (other than saving the universe, his own private deluded universe, but still) get him from out of a search engine and away from the shack in Montana for a day or two a year. Just a hope. Call me silly. Keep on keeping on Munch!

K.

Gary S . · Aug 25, 2003

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:45:25 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks for demonstrating just how belligerent and irresponsible mountain bikers are. You are really
>helping your cause....

>
Much more than you are helping your cause.

Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary S . · Aug 25, 2003

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:54:55 -0500, "sohn" <[email protected]> wrote:

>.Instead of bashing mountain biking, why not educate and help others
>> .understand what you may know?
>>
>> I do, which is why I post here, even though mountain bikers appear to be unteachable.
><snip>
>
> Do the rest of the inhabitants of the world a favor by researching and educating yourself in
> regards to Asperger Syndrome. Here's link you can start with http://www.autism.org/asperger.html
> .After you have thoroughly educated yourself about Asperger's Syndrome, also know as Geek's
> Syndrome, seek professional help. Good Luck BTW I don't ride a mountain bike.
>
I recall a quote about the mark of insanity is to repeat the same thing over and over, and expect
different results.

There are no unteachable students, only poor teachers.

Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Mike Vandeman · Aug 30, 2003

On 24 Aug 2003 12:13:18 +0950, ireman_1 <[email protected]> wrote:

.Muncher, You are right, but I guess it was the optomist in me hoping .someone would take him in and
try to calm him down. You know, give him a .hoby (other than saving the universe, his own private
deluded universe, .but still) get him from out of a search engine and away from the shack .in
Montana for a day or two a year. Just a hope. Call me silly. Keep on .keeping on Munch!

Leave it to a mountain biker to totally miss the point.

.K.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman · Aug 30, 2003

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:13:13 GMT, Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote:

.On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:54:55 -0500, "sohn" <[email protected]> wrote: . .>.Instead of bashing mountain
biking, why not educate and help others .>> .understand what you may know? .>> .>> I do, which is
why I post here, even though mountain bikers appear to be .>> unteachable. .><snip> .> .> Do the
rest of the inhabitants of the world a favor by researching and .>educating yourself in regards to
Asperger Syndrome. Here's link you can .>start with http://www.autism.org/asperger.html .After you
have thoroughly .>educated yourself about Asperger's Syndrome, also know as Geek's Syndrome, .>seek
professional help. .>Good Luck .>BTW I don't ride a mountain bike. .> .I recall a quote about the
mark of insanity is to repeat the same .thing over and over, and expect different results. . .There
are no unteachable students,

Then what's YOUR excuse?

only poor teachers. . .Happy trails, .Gary (net.yogi.bear)
.------------------------------------------------ .at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence .
.Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA .Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Classic Quotes by Typical Idiot Mountain Bikers

Mike Vandeman

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John Morgan

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The Muncher

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The Muncher

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Mark Hainsworth

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Mike L.

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Andy Chequer

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ireman_1

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The Muncher

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Mike Vandeman

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Mike Vandeman

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Mike Vandeman

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Mike Vandeman

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Mike Vandeman

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Sohn

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ireman_1

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Gary S .

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Gary S .

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Mike Vandeman

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Mike Vandeman

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